103 replies to this topic

[paulhooft]

When was the yellow striped 1963 Lotus 25 first entered in a Grand Prix?
Was it because of the 1963 Indianapolis 500.? and why?
Had Trevor Taylor, anything to do with it?
Questions...

Paul Hooft

Edited by paulhooft, 15 January 2010 - 21:49.

[Doug Nye]

1963 British GP - contrasting yellow and green had been a Team Lotus livery - yellow wheels/green body panels - from very early in the sports car programme.

DCN

[Rob G]

BRM had just added the orange to the nose of their cars, and Brabham's green and gold scheme hadn't been around very long either.

[eldougo]

When was the yellow striped 1963 Lotus 25 first entered in a Grand Prix?....... South Africa GP (from what pics i can find)
Was it because of the 1963 Indianapolis 500.? and why?
Had Trevor Taylor, anything to do with it?
Questions...

Paul Hooft

[eldougo]

In correct ill change that to German Gp .1963

[paulhooft]

It is well known that green is an "Unlucky" colour at Indy,
The 1963 Lotus 29 "powered by Ford" was entered at INDY as Green with a Yellow stripe.
(or White with Blue strip for Dan Gurney)
May be they copied that when they came back to Grand Prix racing?

[B Squared]

In correct ill change that to German Gp .1963

I'm with Doug on this, British GP - in Automobile Year #11 there is a photo on page 183 showing the completion of the first lap of the race on July 20, 1963. Jim is in 4th place and one can clearly see the yellow stripe in question.

On page 188 of the same AY #11, there is a photo of the start of the German GP where the yellow stripe is again clearly seen on Jim's pole winning Lotus - the race date was August 4, 1963.

As far as the Indy car being striped, it was obviously done before the Formula One car. I can't place where I read this, but it sticks in the back of my mind that the stripe, at first thought to be rather garish by Chapman, "grew on him" and eventually had it applied to the Lotus 25. This last statement may not be 100% correct, so please clarify as needed. B²

Edited by B Squared, 16 January 2010 - 10:23.

[Barry Boor]

British Grand Prix 1963 - DEFINITELY.

I have always thought that the British teams decided to use a different colour somewhere on their green cars simply for the sake of a bit of variation. Cooper had had white stripes since 1959.

[Doug Nye]

British Grand Prix 1963 - DEFINITELY.

QED - and how's that for fine judgement...

Photo Strictly Copyright: The GP Library

DCN

Edited by Doug Nye, 16 January 2010 - 11:37.

[B Squared]

Doug - You are "on a roll" with great photographs this morning - Thanks Brian

[Roger Clark]

In his report of the British Grand Prix, Denis Jenkinson remarked on the yellow stripe in second practice. Does anybody know whether Clark's car had the stripe for first practice? They were morning and afternoon of the same day, so it's unlikely that any painting was done but they must have had nose cone/cockpit tops with slotted and unslotted screens. Clark raced the slotted windscreen for the first time in the Dutch GP but not in the later French GP.

[Macca]

DSJ mentions that Taylor had an aero-screen too, but his bodywork didn't have a yellow stripe and the numbers were white, not black-on-white discs like Clark's.

http://www.eajonesgu...tart_colour.jpg

Given ACBC's attention to presentation, I wonder why the differences.............and why nobody added the top of the side roundel to Clark's car.

Paul M

[Rob G]

DSJ mentions that Taylor had an aero-screen too, but his bodywork didn't have a yellow stripe and the numbers were white, not black-on-white discs like Clark's.

http://www.eajonesgu...tart_colour.jpg

Given ACBC's attention to presentation, I wonder why the differences.............and why nobody added the top of the side roundel to Clark's car.

Paul M

Fascinating photo. Team Lotus almost always used the white discs through the sixties, regardless of the yellow stripe. I wonder why they went with plain white numbers on Taylor's car.

[Barry Boor]

Smashing picture but strange how dark the orange looks on Ginther's B.R.M.

[DOHC]

QED - and how's that for fine judgement...

Photo Strictly Copyright: The GP Library

DCN

Clark, inching his way forward...

[Roger Clark]

At Solitude a week after Silverstone, Trevor Taylor's race car had a yellow stripe and a slotted windscreen. I believe this was R3, not R2 that he raced at Silverstone. Team Lotus entered a third car at Solitude for Peter Arundell. DSJ described his practice car as "the old Lotus 25 with Weber carburetter engine and ZF gearbox" (R3, I believe). Photographs in Motor Sport and Autosport show this to have normal windscreen and no stripe. Taylor practiced R2 with Colotti gearbox which gave problems and they swapped cars for the race. DSJ says that Arundell's race car had a slotted windscreen and a yellow stripe, but photographs in Autosport and L'Automobile Historique show it to have a slotted windscreen but no stripe, the same as Taylor's at Silverstone. In the German Grand Prix a week after Solitude, Trevor Taylor was back in R2 but with a ZF gearbox fitted between practice and the race. Jim Clark, as everybody knows, drove R4 throughout.

At Solitude the three cars all had different types of drive shaft. Clark's failed on the line, and they were changed during the race, giving rise to one of the all-time great drives and a lap record broken by 6.5 seconds. I find it amazing that a racing team could be such a shambles and expect to compete at the top level, let alone win any races.

[Phil Rainford]

A couple of shots from last year's Gold Cup Meeting.....








PAR

Edited by Phil Rainford, 17 January 2010 - 15:25.

[Tmeranda]

A couple of shots from last last year's Gold Cup Meeting.....








PAR

Nice shots, but it just doesn"t look right with a full face helmet does it?

[Phil Rainford]

Nice shots, but it just doesn"t look right with a full face helmet does it?

Some still keep the faith


PAR

[arttidesco]

This Saturday I'll be blogging about the Lotus 25 I have found chassis numbers for both featured cars and a ton of information on them but I too have found mention on that most unreliable of resources of Trevor Taylor having something to do with the yellow stripe that appears on Team Lotus cars !

From previous personal observation and previous posts I now have it that green was the preferred colour of Team Lotus cars, with yellow wobbly web wheels when they came out.

At Indy in 1963 Clark's #92 Lotus 29 was the first Team Lotus car to appear with a yellow stripe.

The yellow stripe was then initially only to Clark's #4 Lotus 25 at the 1963 British GP.

Can I safely assume that Trevor Taylor having anything to do with the yellow stripe on Team Lotus cars is a complete myth or did Trevor perhaps have such a stripe painted on his FJ car prior to Indy 1963 ?

[Barry Boor]

A yellow stripe on Trevor's F.J. car? I'd say 'no' to that one, but with no more than memory to support the reply.

[David McKinney]

Definitely not

And in any case TT's last FJ year was 1961 - if the idea was going to 'catch on' it would have done so long before May 1963

[Vicuna]

wasn;t it a well known fact that ACBC's fav colour was yelow?

Surely any TT influence was purely a coincidence

[barrykm]

...I had my mum knit me a green jersey with yellow stripes on the sleeves because of this...

[arttidesco]

Thanks Barry, David and Vicuna so another myth completely dispelled

barrykm many years ago my Mum undertook to knit me a jersey to match the seats of one of these, the car is long gone and the jersey has yet to be finished

[JtP1]

At Solitude the three cars all had different types of drive shaft. Clark's failed on the line, and they were changed during the race, giving rise to one of the all-time great drives and a lap record broken by 6.5 seconds. I find it amazing that a racing team could be such a shambles and expect to compete at the top level, let alone win any races.

Iirc, well it was a while ago. Clark's car had expiramental fabricated spiders for the donuts and when he dropped the clutch, they twisted. Obviously the drive shaft ere fine the rest of the time, otherise they would have failed in practice. Considering that the Lotus mechanics must have replaced the shaft assemblies in under an hour, they can't have been that much of a shamble.

[Macca]

When the 25 first appeared at Zandvoort in 1962 it had black wheels with polished rims - perhaps they hadn't had time to spray them. (Taylor's 24 had yellow wheels there)

At Aintree in 1962 Clark's 25 had yellow fronts and black rears.

Paul M

Edited by Macca, 11 January 2012 - 12:48.

[elansprint72]

If we still had a Blood Pressure thread I would ask what a "strpe" is.

[David McKinney]

Slightly Tapered Reproduction Pigmented Extension

[Barry Boor]

So the Lotus yellow addition wasn't a stripe then? No taper involved.

[David Lawson]

Given ACBC's attention to presentation, I wonder why the differences.............and why nobody added the top of the side roundel to Clark's car.

Talking from memory didn't Clark run with white roundels on the engine cover but white numbers on the side of the monocoque at the 1962 British Grand Prix?

I suppose there are occasions when there just wasn't time for worrying too much about presentation? Having said that the mad scramble the team had the night before the 1967 Dutch Grand Prix replacing all the wheel bearings without the proper tools didn't prevent them having two superbly turned out cars for that race, did the 49 ever look better than on its debut?

Another question about yellow detailing at Team Lotus, when did the mechanics first have yellow collars on their green overalls - I think it was 1967.

David

[Macca]

Subtly Tinted Roughly Parallel Embellishment.

Paul M

[charles r]

Slightly o/t but are those wire wheels on the Ferrari?

[arttidesco]

Slightly o/t but are those wire wheels on the Ferrari?

I noticed them, but was not keen to go off topic, which begs the question when was the last time wire wheels were used in a championship and by whom ?

[Tim Murray]

We batted this question around a few years ago, and the consensus was that in F1 it was the Ferrari 156:

The Last Night Of The Prams

[Tim Murray]

In Ferrari by Tanner & Nye there's a photo of Surtees in the 1963 British GP, and his Ferrari is quite clearly on alloys, not wire wheels. The book says that Ferrari used alloy wheels for the first time at the 1963 International Trophy. This would seem to indicate that they used wires for the last time in F1 in the 1962 Italian GP (their last race of that year).

[arttidesco]

Thanks for the info and link Tim

[Sisyphus]

The classic racing car for me will always be Jim Clark's Lotus 25 with yellow wobbley webs, center stript, and air deflector windscreen. What a fantastic look!

Since it seems the first appearance of the stripe was at Indy '63, perhaps Colin found inspiration in a local corn field?

http://www.deere.com...reen_fever.page?

[arttidesco]

The classic racing car for me will always be Jim Clark's Lotus 25 with yellow wobbley webs, center stript, and air deflector windscreen. What a fantastic look!

Since it seems the first appearance of the stripe was at Indy '63, perhaps Colin found inspiration in a local corn field?

http://www.deere.com...reen_fever.page?

Several of my less well informed friends from west side of the pond asked about the John Deere Sponsorship when I posted a blog on the Lotus 22 FJ car last month

Thanks again for everyone's help dispelling the Trevor Taylor Yellow 'Strpe' myth

[Roger Clark]

You say that Trevor Taylor crashed R5 at the Belgian Grand Prix during the race. Didn't this happen during practice? I thought that he raced R3, retiring with engine problems of some sort.

[arttidesco]

You say that Trevor Taylor crashed R5 at the Belgian Grand Prix during the race. Didn't this happen during practice? I thought that he raced R3, retiring with engine problems of some sort.

I'll gladly bow to your superior knowledge and Lotus library Roger, I was unaware he had been involved in two incidents during the Belgian GP ?

Wiki (my best resource) on the race suggests Trevor retired after an accident from the race but does not say which chassis he was driving.

[Roger Clark]

I'll gladly bow to your superior knowledge and Lotus library Roger, I was unaware he had been involved in two incidents during the Belgian GP ?

Wiki (my best resource) on the race suggests Trevor retired after an accident from the race but does not say which chassis he was driving.

Not two incidents. A crash in practice and a mechanical failure in the race. Which Wiki says that he crashed in the race?

[arttidesco]

Sorry Roger getting my '63 Belgian GP mixed up with '62 this morning, Wiki says Trevor had an accident on lap 25 in 1962, and 'physical' is listed as the reason for his retirement on lap 5 of the 1963 Belgian GP.

[cedricselzer]

DSJ mentions that Taylor had an aero-screen too, but his bodywork didn't have a yellow stripe and the numbers were white, not black-on-white discs like Clark's.

http://www.eajonesgu...tart_colour.jpg

Given ACBC's attention to presentation, I wonder why the differences.............and why nobody added the top of the side roundel to Clark's car.

Paul M

Great picture. Has anyone picked up that "Team Lotus" was not painted on the bodywork of JC's car? The reason that there was not a completed circle on fibre glass body and no "Team Lotus" on the side is that they both painted by the sign writer. I am sure this was a new nose cone and there was not enough time to complete this work prior to the race.

[Roger Clark]

Sorry Roger getting my '63 Belgian GP mixed up with '62 this morning, Wiki says Trevor had an accident on lap 25 in 1962, and 'physical' is listed as the reason for his retirement on lap 5 of the 1963 Belgian GP.

I can't remember having seen "physical" as a reason for retirement before. The Wikepedia page quotes John Thompson as a source but he says "driver unfit". The contemporary Autosport report and the Black Book both say low oil pressure. DSJ's report says that Taylor reared with "low oil pressure" (his quotes), and the results list the reason for retirement as "-- !! --".

It wouldn't be surprising if Trevor Taylor was unfit after his practice accident.

[Rob G]

I can't remember having seen "physical" as a reason for retirement before. The Wikepedia page quotes John Thompson as a source but he says "driver unfit". The contemporary Autosport report and the Black Book both say low oil pressure. DSJ's report says that Taylor reared with "low oil pressure" (his quotes), and the results list the reason for retirement as "-- !! --".

It wouldn't be surprising if Trevor Taylor was unfit after his practice accident.

The 1963 Automobile Year has his reason for retirement as "---" and doesn't mention him in the race report at all.

In the book "Grand Prix!" Mike Lang lists it as oil pressure in the results. He also mentioned that Taylor was able to carry on in the spare car after his practice accident, and although he doesn't explicitly say that he drove the spare car during that session, he does continue discussing the practice session, which to me implies that he did.

[arttidesco]

I had not noticed the absence of the 'Team Lotus' sign writing Cedric, I wonder how many model makers have ?

Roger I've added a post script to the blog thanks for spotting and letting me know about this error

Meanwhile I was looking at the results page of the 1963 French GP on the 'Official' Formula 1™ website and found the accompanying photo rather interesting, the number on the side of Jim's car looks right but what about the stripe ?

Anyone have any idea's where or even when that photo might have been taken ?

[David Lawson]

I would guess that photo was taken at Zandvoort in 1964

David

[Roger Clark]

Autocourse says: "His knee and thigh were very swollen and after a few laps he was obliged to retire. Subsequent examination showed that he had severed a thigh muscle." He missed Le Mans the following week (according to Autocourse but I don't know what he would have driven) but was back for the Dutch GrandPrix.

[Roger Clark]

I had not noticed the absence of the 'Team Lotus' sign writing Cedric, I wonder how many model makers have ?

Roger I've added a post script to the blog thanks for spotting and letting me know about this error

Meanwhile I was looking at the results page of the 1963 French GP on the 'Official' Formula 1™ website and found the accompanying photo rather interesting, the number on the side of Jim's car looks right but what about the stripe ?

Anyone have any idea's where or even when that photo might have been taken ?

Certainly not 1963. I think David Lawson is correct.