93 replies to this topic

[Paul Newby]

There is an interesting story re the winning car. It was supplied still in its damaged race state for a 3 day road test evaluation. At some stage during the test the headlights were turned on (one had been broken during the race, maybe the Mini Cooper incident or a rock) and the car wiring caught fire. Wonder if the same may have occurred if they had turned them on during the race. The car had to be towed back and a new wiring loom fitted.

That would have been journalist Bill Tuckey who road tested Seton's GT500 for Sports Car World. Not sure which month without looking it up, but probably December 1965. I think Tuckey posed that question - "what if they turned on the lights?" But it wouldn't have been the done thing in 1965 to turn on your lights to warn lapped cars that you were coming through.

Times have changed a lot since then, of course...

[Lee Nicolle]

Got a note back from Norm on the clutch:

"I'm sure the clutch is the same as the GT. Nothing appears in the parts listing. It's a pissy little spring thing that cannot cope with the tall first gear. When I get the car going again I'll use a Lotus Cortina diaphragm which is larger in diameter. Need to use a four bolt Lotus flywheel and a Ford Anglia 105E bell housing.
This is another of a few modifications that should have been made to all the cars."

Use a 'button' type clutch plate with a heavy duty diafram. That way it stays visibly original and those plates bite a LOT harder. They are a bit rough on flywheels though.

[Lee Nicolle]

And to put some results in to tidy it all up:

CAR No. ENTRANT / DRIVERS CAR COLOUR
1D FORD MOTOR COY Ford Cortina GT500 White
Leo Geoghegan, Ian Geoghegan

Disqualified. Lost two laps early changing plugs, given black flag after the engine was restarted before refuelling was completed later in race. Protested and allowed to run to finish, completed full race distance.

2D CONTINENTAL & GENERAL DISTRIBUTORS
PTY LTD Studebaker Blue/White
Fred Sutherland, Alan Mottram

13th outright, 6th in class on 120 laps

3D BRITISH & CONTINENTAL CARS
PTY LTD Volvo 122S Cream
John Martin, TBN

12th outright, 5th in class, 106.3mph driven by Bill Ford and Des West, 121 laps

4D GRAWILL MOTORS PTY LTD Ford Cortina GT500 White
Bruce McPhee, Barry Mulholland

2nd outright and in class, 111.6mph on Conrod.

5D BRITISH & CONTINENTAL CARS
PTY LTD Volvo 122S Red
Grahame Ward, Barry Collerson

16th outright, 7th in class, 108.9mph (Ward's road car?) 118 laps

6D CANBERRA SPEED SHOP Ford Cortina GT500 White
Peter Brown, Ray Gulson

34th outright, 9th in class, 111.9mph, 106 laps. Driver changed diff out on circuit borrowing one from the Hodgson car parked nearby!

7D AUSTRALIAN MOTOR INDUSTRIES Triumph 2000 Red
Max Stewart, Bob Young

10th outright, 4th in class, 105.2mph, 124 laps. Bob Young was a Vee driver.

8D D WALKER Ford Cortina GT500 Green
David Walker, Carl Kennedy

40th outright, 11th in class, 108.9mph, 64 laps, last race finisher. Broke con-rod, raided spare car for parts to rebuild engine and rejoin.

9D K RUSSELL Triumph 2000 Green
Keith Russell, Col Wear

Rolled in esses after 60 laps, retired.

10D NEEDHAM’S MOTORS PTY LTD Studebaker Blue/White
Warren Weldon, Bill Slattery

27th outright, 8th in class, 123.9mph, 112 laps. Took the lead early but soon had brake problems.

11D FAIRFIELD MOTORS PTY LTD Ford Cortina GT500 Ivory
Barry Seton, Midge Bosworth

1st outright and in class, led most of the second half of the race, 110.5mph on Conrod Straight.

12D HUNT BROS (Sydney) MOTORS
PTY LTD Ford Cortina GT500 White
Bill McLachlan, Jack Murray

5th outright, 3rd in class, 109.4mph, 128 laps, a great finale to a pair of greats from Bathurst's past. I'm sure this was the weekend Jack Murray drove all around Bathurst sounding off with his Coocooracha air horns in some great Yank Tank.

13D R SALTER Ford Cortina GT500 Grey
Bob Salter, Ken Wiggins

37th outright, 10th in class, 110.5mph, 97 laps. Blew diff.

14D FORD MOTOR COY Ford Cortina GT500 White
Bob Jane, George Reynolds

Broke No 4 con-rod at 58 laps, coasted to pits to retire.

15D BELVEDERE MOTORS Ford Cortina GT500 White
Bob Beasley, Ron Hodgson

Broke con-rod at 54 laps, retired on circuit.

16D OTTEN MOTORS Fiat 2300 Blue
Fred Otten, Mike Crampton

Retired at 65 laps, 'oil shield' given as explanation in Bathurst book.

17D A DAVIS Ford Cortina GT500 White/Brown
Arthur Davis, Paul Mander

Crash caused retirement at 14 laps. Davis was spectacular and hit a tree.

Car 2D is listed as being driven by Fred Sutherland. Would that be the same chap from Kyabraham Vic that drove bitumen Speedway in the 70s in a Torana? Anyone know?

[wagons46]

Fred Sutherland and Alan Mottram were Victorian police members IRC which was relevant to the car they were driving as being used by the department for persuit vehicles.

Edited by wagons46, 22 January 2010 - 01:29.

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Lee Nicolle
Use a 'button' type clutch plate with a heavy duty diafram. That way it stays visibly original and those plates bite a LOT harder. They are a bit rough on flywheels though.

A bit hard on originality too...

Recall that Norm says they have a spring type clutch?

[lazzHAR]

That's right, so it was probably the same supercharger...

Ian Tate also has a supercharger that's been lying around unused for a long time, I wonder if it got a run too? It was from the Ian Mountain Peugeot Special.

But we're getting off topic.

hi guy's , yeah a little off the topic but the blower ian has was the one on the HDT rallycross torana. the blower , manifolding, pulleys and twin 2"su's were fitted to the ex bond / janson XU1 in about '80. an erant bolt went through the blower and it was 'returned 'to ian,( manifold was then fitted with a K300 godfrey/ marshall blower , car still exists and will be at P. I .)

interesting read , got to love those early cortina's

cheers lazz

[Lee Nicolle]

A bit hard on originality too...

Recall that Norm says they have a spring type clutch?

Sprung or diafram, doesnt matter just good honest pressure with 'button' ceramic linings. And ofcourse you can still use a sprung plate.

[GreenMachine]

Interesting thread!

My cousin bought one of the early cars, and he covered a lot of miles as a surveyor. Went like the powers IIRC, but suffered detonation and did a piston in. He sold the car shortly afterwards, left a sour taste with him.

It makes me wonder, was the CR raised? The bloke wasn't that short of a quid, and looked after his cars well, so it wasn't as if he was scrimping on fuel ...

[Ray Bell]

The compression ratio was raised, I'm sure that was mentioned in the list...

An interesting comment from Norm here... with regard to the touring capabilities of the GT500. "When I got my first 504," he told me, "I found it was an hour quicker between Sydney and Ballina. The Cortina was so rough riding you just couldn't keep up the speed the Pug would do."

[SJ Lambert]

I had a quick squiz at the Don Elliot example at Baskerville a couple of weeks ago - it seemed to be very tidy....an original example???

[Ellis French]

I had a quick squiz at the Don Elliot example at Baskerville a couple of weeks ago - it seemed to be very tidy....an original example???

The GT500 at Baskerville (that John Bowe took Harry Firth for a lap or 2 in) has no association with Don Elliot.
It belongs to the owner of the new replica of the Elliot /Edmondson 2 dr Cortina that was on display and also the same owner had the Black Nb GT Cortina .
It was simply in the tent with the replica Elliot/Pare Anglia and was also supposed to have the Elliot /Pare Mustang but it didnt eventuate.



L-R
Elliot / Pare Anglia replica
GT 500 with Bowe /Firth
Elliot / Edmondson Cortina replica....driven by Edmondson

Edit...
The same GT 500 is one of the 10 originals pictured at Bathurst in Post 14

Edited by Ellis French, 30 October 2010 - 11:22.

[smeetsie]

I hail from Adelaide. I owned a GT500 some 25 years ago. Sold it to Graeme Mein in Ballina NSW.

$3000.00 Can you believe it @!!!

I was told they all had UK body shells. Is that correct please? The chrome rear side window frames being the give away. The car I had, had spent many years on a dirt floored garage sadly, and was quite rotten underneath. I also had the tank, brake scoops, badges off another car that was wrecked in Port Augusta way back then.

I have also owned a couple of 2 door GT Cortinas...which i have been told are nearly as rare as GT500's. I had 2 door GT doors and chrome strips as spares back then........not realizing their rarity.

In later years I decided to build a Anglia Super for group N, and found a genuine road car. Started on it, but bought John Bassett's instead. Fantastic little car.......if somewhat controversial. It went to Sydney.

Now have a Donkervoort clubman which has a BDA drysumped motor and 5 speed Type 9 gearbox.
Pete S

[Ray Bell]

A smarter car for racing...

I would seriously doubt imported bodies on the GT500 and I don't think they had the lightweight front suspension parts of the British models either.

When I get home next week I can look at the pics I took of Norm Smith's car, the day I photographed Graeme Mein's 220 (or was that a 240?) model.

[eldougo]

What they looked like in their Day.

...Leo G Armstrong 500 1964.

Thanks Stephen for the correction.

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Edited by eldougo, 16 January 2011 - 10:49.

[Hank the Deuce]

I hail from Adelaide. I owned a GT500 some 25 years ago. Sold it to Graeme Mein in Ballina NSW.

$3000.00 Can you believe it @!!!

Graeme probably still has it... he has a LOT of small Fords, or did have a half-dozen years ago when I used to go and lurk in his shed during my lunchbreak.

[Ian G]

Yeah,thats probaly the guy from Suffolk Engineering in Ballina,still had several Fords including a TC Escort & RS Capri as at a couple of years ago.

[Ray Bell]

If memory serves me right, my brother bought a GT500 for $500 back in the seventies...

Meantime, the other one in the Ballina area is Norm Smith's, which Norm has had since it was about a year old.

[eldougo]

Winning GT500 of SEATON/BOSWORTH.
followed by Hopkirk/Makinen
Lindsay /Cook
Foley/Manton
French&Harvey.

Form Cooper997.

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Edited by eldougo, 18 January 2011 - 07:22.

[Lee Nicolle]

If memory serves me right, my brother bought a GT500 for $500 back in the seventies...

Meantime, the other one in the Ballina area is Norm Smith's, which Norm has had since it was about a year old.

Dont we wish we knew then what we know now. Like a lot of us I have had a heap of now very collectible cars and bought and sold them for next to nothing. I would be rich if i kept them all,,,,, apart from storage costs and the interest lost on the capital!

[cooper997]

This is one of my favourite RCN covers from the early days with Max as editor. Simple and effective, depicting the battle between the GT500's and the Mini Cooper S's. A battle that Seton & Bosworth's Cortina won, but never had a chance to repeat because the GT500 wasn't eligible to race at the Bathurst 500 mile race again.

Thanks eldougo for posting.

Stephen

[Lee Nicolle]

This is one of my favourite RCN covers from the early days with Max as editor. Simple and effective, depicting the battle between the GT500's and the Mini Cooper S's. A battle that Seton & Bosworth's Cortina won, but never had a chance to repeat because the GT500 wasn't eligible to race at the Bathurst 500 mile race again.

Thanks eldougo for posting.

Stephen

Wasnt elegible or was not competitive? It would not be competitive against the Falcon GTs though it still should have been on the pace with the rest. The Minis were around for some years still.

[Ray Bell]

Wasn't eligible...

The following year was a walkover for the Mini Cooper S, you might recall. Then the Foulcan GTs came in '67. Eligibility rules changed so that it was harder for a manufacturer to put up a short-run car to dominate the race.

[Hank the Deuce]

....still had several Fords including a TC Escort & RS Capri as at a couple of years ago.

That'd be the green Capri? Was it an RS? I'd heard that Bo Seton had arranged its import to use as a Group C car, but it came with factory sunroof, which put paid to that idea.

Graeme did or does a lot of fettling of historic race cars... the leadup to things like Speed on Tweed would have the industrial estate awash with trailers, TVR's, Brabhams and the like... rather distracting on a work day

[Dav10]

In response to Terry Walkers post 19 Jan 2010 - I bought Dave Manners red GT500 around 1974 and it was a 2 door with front bumperettes, so that mystery is solved. The previous owner I believe was Bob Moyle who also rallied, in fact there are WA rally results listings that shows these two guys as driver and navigator in the mid 70's I think. I paid $400 for the car and flew from Melb. with an ex mate to pick it up and drove it back across the unmade Nullabor clipping a roo on the way,( no damage ) we drove non stop except for a couple of hours rest outside Adelaide. The body was a little tired so I re shelled it and painted it Arctic white. Not realizing the future value I did not change id. plates and the new 2 door body was an earlier model but still with air vents rear pillar and oval front indicators. All of the original 500 gear was refitted including gearbox. The job was not well done in hindsight and the dashboard was hacked out to accommodate the GT gauges. The engine was rebuilt and I think the following is what was done , crank and cam grind ( to L3 - Paul England- Essendon) 85mm Mahl pistons, rings & bearings, valve grind and valves std., new clutch and a 45 side draft Weber fitted. It was a great car and will always be right up there on the favourites list. The great Ocean road and back dirt roads out of Apollo Bay in the Otways were great fun in those days. I sold the car around 1978 for about $2000. I still have the Owner's Handbook with all owners names and mod's that were done written on the front cover. After that I had mk2 gt and mk2 2 door. (loved Cortinas and they were excellent in the dirt)

Dav10

[cooper997]

Time to liven up this thread again.

I

t's been about 6 years since I last spotted a GT500. So a pleasant surprise this morning when I stumbled upon one of these rare Harry Firth specials built for the 1965 Armstrong 500.

 

(unfortunately I only had the ipad for average photos)

 

 

 

One of the 2 petrol filler necks for the GT500.

 

Blanking plate over the original filler neck area

 

Some additional badging

 

Mr Standfields handywork - the brake ducts specially made for the GT500.

 

Stephen

 

 

 

[GT50012D]

Hi guys, does anyone have a list of chassis or engine numbers of the gt500 cortinas that raced on 3rd October 1965? CAMS doesn’t go that far back

[Ian G]

Hi guys, does anyone have a list of chassis or engine numbers of the gt500 cortinas that raced on 3rd October 1965? CAMS doesn’t go that far back

 

Welcome..

 

I think one of the specialist Ford Forums is probably the go,its a minefield thou. trying to sort the dodgy from the genuine.

 

There were fake Lotus & Firth Cortina's around in the 1970's when i was in the car trade.Then in the late 1990's i noticed a guy in Melb. selling badges,twin fillers,brake scoops etc to tart up a Cortina.They started to bob up on Ebay in the early 2000's but i haven't seen them listed for a while.

[cooper997]

GT50012D, The 1965 Armstrong 500 supp regs had provision for the chassis number to be listed when entering. So that suggests that the ARDC might be a better avenue to contact rather than CAMS/Motorsport Australia. Of course that will only be of any benefit if their records have been kept and if so, can be accessed.

 

Keep us posted if you try them.

 

 

Stephen

[Ray Bell]

Anything could happen there...

 

When the ARDC moved their offices from Leichhardt to Amaroo Park in the late seventies some of the workers were cleaning out the office records. After a few truckloads went to Tempe tip, Ray Price realised what was going on and put a stop to it.

 

They've had another move since then..,

[cooper997]

On the basis of (some) ARDC files having been dumped, I guess the next call would be Ford Australia or their representatives.

 

Adrian Ryan was once the go to man on these sorts of things. Particularly those Falcon GT tragics that wanted the 'birth certificate' for their car. It is of course 11 years since Adrian passed away and since then I understand a business has been established supplying this sort of data. Adverts have appeared in Australian Muscle Car mag for www.acchs.com.au that provide the service. No doubt it costs, but armed with dealer entrants listed in this thread, perhaps cars can be tracked back by dealer delivery to help establish a list of potential chassis numbers.

 

Failing that, it would probably be a case of tracking down fellow Cortina enthusiasts (social media or specialist Cortina forum) to see whether someone has already done the hard yards on this before.

 

 

Stephen

Edited by cooper997, 27 September 2020 - 00:31.

[Lee Nicolle]

As has been noted in the past the number of 'fake' classic cars exceeds the number of originals.

Or rusted out and or fatigued cars  that have been reshelled. 

In this country 'Bathurst Specials' have been cloned as tributes, or in many cases sold as the original thing.

Cortinas, Cooper S, Falcon GTs, Monaros, Toranas in particular.

[cooper997]

To re-instate this cover originally shown in post 68,

 

 

What became the winning Seton/Bosworth GT500, closely followed by 4 Cooper S of  Hopkirk/ Makinen, Lindsay/Cook, Foley/Manton and French/ J Harvey.

 

 

Stephen

[Ray Bell]

I'm pretty sure I saw the Seton/Bosworth car in the Bathurst museum several years ago...

 

Minis were a dime a dozen, nobody would know where they went. Except, I think, the Bob Holden car from the following year, I feel sure Bob has kept tabs on it.

[GT50012D]

Thanks guys, i believe i may have the GT500 12D car, i am trying to locate the chassis or engine numbers of the cars that did race on that day to confirm whether or not my car is the one of them, it is a genuine and correct 1965 GT500, white with red interior, has been off the road for approx 30 years, id appreciate any assistance in advance

[GreenMachine]

I'm pretty sure I saw the Seton/Bosworth car in the Bathurst museum several years ago...

 

Minis were a dime a dozen, nobody would know where they went. Except, I think, the Bob Holden car from the following year, I feel sure Bob has kept tabs on it.

 

The Seton/Bosworth car, shot in February 2013 at the Bathurst museum (ETA: as described, no mention of being a replica, as the Mini placarded description does)

 

 

This one is (was?) labelled a replica ... that numberplate certainly hasn't done 500 miles 

Edited by GreenMachine, 28 September 2020 - 00:59.

[Lee Nicolle]

I'm pretty sure I saw the Seton/Bosworth car in the Bathurst museum several years ago...

 

Minis were a dime a dozen, nobody would know where they went. Except, I think, the Bob Holden car from the following year, I feel sure Bob has kept tabs on it.

Once again, the original or a tribute? I vaguely remember someone saying it was not the original. 

That is the problem these days.

And even if the original some are akin to grandpas axe!

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by GT50012D
Thanks guys, i believe i may have the GT500 12D car, i am trying to locate the chassis or engine numbers of the cars that did race on that day to confirm whether or not my car is the one of them, it is a genuine and correct 1965 GT500, white with red interior, has been off the road for approx 30 years, id appreciate any assistance in advance

My youngest brother once owned one, not a race car I don't think...

But today I know a first-owner of another non-race car who would happily talk to you. And I'm pretty sure he has a friend who has one, race or non-race I wouldn't know.

While another bloke fairly close to him also had one back in the day.

e.mail me and I'll give you an address to e.mail. I'm sure he knows others.

[Ian G]

Thanks guys, i believe i may have the GT500 12D car, i am trying to locate the chassis or engine numbers of the cars that did race on that day to confirm whether or not my car is the one of them, it is a genuine and correct 1965 GT500, white with red interior, has been off the road for approx 30 years, id appreciate any assistance in advance

 

I'm no Ford/Cortina fan but the Pic. above of the Bathurst car shows it has Tan interior. 

There may be a reason as i think most of them did have red interior,at least the ones i sold back in the 1970's..

 

https://www.shannons...tback-register/

Edited by Ian G, 27 September 2020 - 23:45.

[Ray Bell]

12D was the McLachlan/Murray car, It appears in an Autopics shot as white with a red stripe across the front of the bonnet and the front of the roof...

 

Pic 65818 with no photographer's name mentioned.

[cooper997]

Greenmachine's photo of the 13C Cooper S is indeed a tribute car to the 1966 Gallaher 500 winner. Built up in the 90s (IIRC) by Paul Gulson. Alas, it's BRG rather than the Castrol Green it originally raced in.

 

Here's another period GT500 mag cover.

 

 

 

Stephen

 

 

[cooper997]

Bit of a collective effort has turned Mark Bisset into a taxi enthusiast. Bound to be writing about Supercars any day now.

 

 

New Auto Action #1821 has 4 page piece on the GT500 with input from those involved in 1965, Bo Seton, John Sheppard and Ian Tate. Plus some current owners and nice selection of photos. One includes (then) future Lotus F1 driver, David Walker.

 

Aussie's have 2 weeks to get a hardcopy in their newsagent/retailer..

 

Or buy online here...https://autoaction.com.au/

 

There's also part 2 of Warwick Brown's feature in this issue.

 

 

 

Stephen

Edited by cooper997, 08 October 2021 - 08:57.

[Ray Bell]

Not mentioned anywhere yet...

 

The '500' badge located alongside the GT badges on the rear flanks was from Fairlane 500 parts bin.

[MarkBisset]

 

 

 

List of the special parts which comprise a GT500 - with the exception of the CKD pressings which rumbled down the Broadmeadows assembly line before jumping’ a truck to Harry’s Emporium of Speed in Queens Avenue, Auburn.

 

Yes, Stephen, two Taxi articles in a row, to the Dark Side I go. From Tinder to Grinder next...

 

It was fun to research and write; great help from Ray’s mate Norm Smith, Bo Seton, Tatey, Sheppo, and two GT500 experts; Peter Walker who initiated the story, and Randall Langdon the GT500 Registrar who entirely coincidently I met at Longford in March, we had a long chat about his Gremlin sporty I was admiring at the time. Both Peter and Randall ‘signed it off’, so hopefully it’s cock-up free.

 

Edited by MarkBisset, 09 October 2021 - 06:00.

[Ray Bell]

And then there were the blind alleys...

 

Like the ones hampering anyone wanting to know about S4 Holdens, the people who reckon they had disc brakes, 4-speed gearboxes, tachos and more.

 

There was also the GC1500 offered by a certain Canberra Ford dealer, but we don't know much about that one.