12535 replies to this topic

[swerved]

So now the discussion goes from Alonso being arrogant for not specifically naming Hamilton as a threat, to the annoyance of Mclaren always refering first to Jenson and then to Lewis...

Are you guys sure youre not overreacting just a little tiny bit?

I was going to suggest that it was because B comes before H alphabetically, but that might have some calling for McLaren to replace Jenson with Wurz Yoong or Zanardi.

[De Jokke]

To all Lewis Hamilton fan,am i the only one that think its weird that in every press release from the team,its always Jenson first not Lewis.Going back to before Jenson join the team it was the other way.In every other team they call the number one driver name first in every press release,what iam saying is,did Jenson earn that number one spot.Do you think a driver would negotiate something like that in their contract.Maybe iam seeing something that's not there.

I noticed it too, it's annoying if you see what button can do with a car and hami can do. They'll lose him that way if they'll give him always the feeling of nr.2. Mcl management sometimes isn't what it should be.

[Grenada]

To all Lewis Hamilton fan,am i the only one that think its weird that in every press release from the team,its always Jenson first not Lewis.Going back to before Jenson join the team it was the other way.In every other team they call the number one driver name first in every press release,what iam saying is,did Jenson earn that number one spot.Do you think a driver would negotiate something like that in their contract.Maybe iam seeing something that's not there.

No, I noticed that too. McLaren have favoured Button since he joined the team and I reckon they will continue to do so this year. It is stupid as it won't help them win either title, and it's a kick in the teeth for Hamilton. I also have no idea why they do this although one can speculate.

I wish Hamilton could find another competitive team to go to and tell McLaren and Whitmarsh to go swing.

[bauss]

It may be because Jenson is older, it may be because he is the more recent WDC, it may be because they took some internal decision to make him feel as important or equal as possible knowing the ontrack battle vs Lewis will likely say different, it may be for other reasons.

In any case, it makes no difference....I continue to believe talks of McLaren favoring Button over Lewis is bull... not until Lewis himself starts hinting it or his demeanor changes. I know enough about the guy to know he wont take any hint of bias/favoritism smiling n sitting down(remember 07, Turkey 2010 even Australia when he felt his teammate had the better tire strategy).

Edited by bauss, 14 January 2011 - 10:27.

[velgajski1]

It may be because Jenson is older, it may be because he is the more recent WDC, it may be because they took some internal decision to make him feel as important or equal as possible knowing the ontrack battle vs Lewis will likely say different, it may be for other reasons.

In any case, it makes no difference....I continue to believe talks of McLaren favoring Button over Lewis is bull... not until Lewis himself starts hinting it or his demeanor changes. I know enough about the guy to know he wont take any hint of bias/favoritism smiling n sitting down(remember 07, Turkey 2010 even Australia when he felt his teammate had the better tire strategy).

This

It's funny that some Lewis fans are now doing exactly what they said that Alonso shouldn't have complained about in 2007 - complain about minute details while on-track stuff says that they have same chances of winning. Luckily, Lewis is more consistent than part of his fans - and doesn't seem to bother with it.

Also, its funny that Lewis haters that claimed Alonso was #2 in 2007. now claim that Button and Lewis are now at equality, even if McLaren seemingly is nicer to Jenson than to Lewis (which is all Alonso complained about in 2007. and by that logic they should claim that Lewis was #2 in 2010.)

Blessed be thy double standards

Edited by velgajski1, 14 January 2011 - 10:35.

[Boxerevo]

It may be because Jenson is older, it may be because he is the more recent WDC, it may be because they took some internal decision to make him feel as important or equal as possible knowing the ontrack battle vs Lewis will likely say different, it may be for other reasons.

In any case, it makes no difference....I continue to believe talks of McLaren favoring Button over Lewis is bull... not until Lewis himself starts hinting it or his demeanor changes. I know enough about the guy to know he wont take any hint of bias/favoritism smiling n sitting down(remember 07, Turkey 2010 even Australia when he felt his teammate had the better tire strategy).

I agree with you.

They dont want to decrease the motivation.

And with this they shut up the "Lewis owns Mclaren" thing that many people talk.

Edited by Boxerevo, 14 January 2011 - 10:43.

[tifosiMac]

We've got a situation where McLaren are putting Button's name forward to promote him as he is still a newcomer, and the fact he is the most recent WDC out of the two gives weight to this.

The non McLaren fans will look at this in two ways:

1. If McLaren are promoting Jenson in the press, the forums light up and the non fans will want to spook Hamilton's fans into thinking the team are favouring Jenson.
2. If Lewis continues to dominate on track in 2011, it'll go back to the accusations that the team are favouring Lewis.

Either way we can expect the negative to be more apparent than a reasoned view of two drivers fighting it out.

[Grenada]

I agree with you.

They dont want to decrease the motivation.

And with this they shut up the "Lewis owns Mclaren" thing that many people talk.

They've gone too far the other way though. Hamilton's strategies were **** last year, they seemed to concentrate more on Button's. Whitmarsh obviously is still in the throes of honeymoon with Button.

I hope things change this year. I want equality too, not what is going on now.

[robefc]

They've gone too far the other way though. Hamilton's strategies were **** last year, they seemed to concentrate more on Button's. Whitmarsh obviously is still in the throes of honeymoon with Button.

I hope things change this year. I want equality too, not what is going on now.

Australia was **** with hindsight, had nothing to do with button and button made his own risky call so well done him.

Hamilton made his own very late decision in china too.

To think that mclaren would in anyway disadvantage lewis is just ridiculous.

There may be some races where good strategy helped button catch up places but that's because he needed to catch up places, it's not like they ignored an opportunity to jump lewis from 3rd to 1st or something.

And on another topic I couldn't care less who they mention first in interviews.

[klyster]

No, I noticed that too. McLaren have favoured Button since he joined the team and I reckon they will continue to do so this year. It is stupid as it won't help them win either title, and it's a kick in the teeth for Hamilton. I also have no idea why they do this although one can speculate.

I wish Hamilton could find another competitive team to go to and tell McLaren and Whitmarsh to go swing.

I wouldn't worry too much, I think Lewis is comfortable within McLaren, and Jenson is a newbie, he may need to feel more comfortable.

McLaren, IMO, are doing a fine job of accommodating both drivers, and Jenson was the current WDC.

Perhaps they learned a few things about driver (mis)management in 2007.

Besides, I'm sure Jenson is aware of his performance compared to Lewis, even with the extra support from the team.

[KateLM]

They've gone too far the other way though. Hamilton's strategies were **** last year, they seemed to concentrate more on Button's. Whitmarsh obviously is still in the throes of honeymoon with Button.

I hope things change this year. I want equality too, not what is going on now.

Oh come on, in the grand scheme of things what does naming Jenson first actually mean? I doubt either driver gives that two thoughts. Yes they probably went a bit overboard in public to make Jenson feel welcome but you can hardly blame them after the problems they had with Alonso, and the accusations of it being Team Lewis in 08-09. But if you compare the situation to what its like at Red Bull, I'd be very hard-pushed to say there was any true Jenson bias. What goes on with Whitmarsh and Button is just for public consumption, you can't seriously have the impression that they were happier when JB won than when Lewis did, or they would rather he was their WDC than Hamilton.

And "Hamilton's strategies were ****" seems to be solely based on one race, Australia. For heavens sake, the team can make occasional mistakes. Most of the time Hamilton was on the same strategy as the leading cars while Button was coming from lower on the grid. And even though I'm not a fan, you have to give Button credit for making his own calls in Australia and China. That wasn't McLaren there.

[ArtShelley]

I think passes during the start phase are usually ommited from the official stats too, though I'm not quite sure what's the exact criteria. From my POV it makes sense at least for the pure "better acceleration" kind of passes into the first corner, that's not really overtaking in the traditional sense.

I have the same view. Personally I also don't count those where several cars are jostling for position, with other cars very close by, and one comes out ahead. I'm not saying that it doesn't require skill from the man who ends up in front, but it's not exactly an overtake. However there are many instances of, what I consider, genuine overtakes into Turn 1 where a driver just outbrakes another into the corner on cold tyres or forces the other driver into an error, e.g driver on the outside brakes earlier but switches back and gets a much better exit.

[ArtShelley]

When Alonso suffered that brainfade with Jenson into the first corner....Lewis came around the outside on the grass.

I don't count that as an overtake. Didn't Alonso actually spin out then? Not an overtake by Lewis. He just went past.

Edited by ArtShelley, 14 January 2011 - 11:56.

[ArtShelley]

I'm not going to count as an overtake, the incident in Australia where Lewis was attempting a pass on Alonso but Mark came through and collected him. Though I strongly suspect Lewis would have overtaken Alonso as he had a much better line and thus exit not to mention the top speed advantage of the f-duct, but it cannot be counted as it never came to pass. Who knows, although unlikely, Alonso may just kept him at bay.

[ArtShelley]

Thanks. Yep, discounting the full 1st lap is a bit of a shame, but then again it's really not easy to draw a general line. Even some T1 passes were great, when done properly under braking, like Hamilton manages frequently, or the other way round Massa on him in Hungary 2008. Seems not quite fair that those don't count.

That Massa pass was beautiful. As much crap as Massa gets sometimes, I love it when he gets worked up and that was one of those times. There was just no way he was going to let it happen any other way. He locked his tyres up for so long, smoke pouring out but held it beautifully and took the corner. I would love to have known what Lewis was thinking just after that moment!

[ArtShelley]

It's absoluteley annoying from McLaren always to name Button first
in nearly every interview with some McLaren responsible, always the "Jenson first" mantra
I guess who installed this prayer wheel
http://mclaren.com/2010

Sometimes I wonder if some of the so-called Lewis fans are actually Lewis haters trying reverse psychology. Well, it's working.

[ArtShelley]

I respected that because Jeson was the reign WDC.

But Whitmarsh still on this.

Let me see. In 2007 they named Alonso first and Hamilton second. In 2008 and 2009 they named Hamilton first and Kovalainen second. In 2010 and 2011 they are naming Button first and Hamilton second. Can you see the trend?

Hint: it has to do with the alphabet.

[Bonaventura]

I agree with you.

They dont want to decrease the motivation.

And with this they shut up the "Lewis owns Mclaren" thing that many people talk.

It was right at the start of 2010 season, if Button needed it
but it sounds only silly now one year later
Always to name both drivers together and always Button first
Ther were inerviews with Whitmarsh, where he was asked about Lewis and somehow he always brought Button into it
If I ask how the wateher is in London, I don't wanna know how the weather is in China.
It looks like the McLaren drivers were siamese twins or so

[ArtShelley]

No, I noticed that too. McLaren have favoured Button since he joined the team and I reckon they will continue to do so this year. It is stupid as it won't help them win either title, and it's a kick in the teeth for Hamilton. I also have no idea why they do this although one can speculate.

I wish Hamilton could find another competitive team to go to and tell McLaren and Whitmarsh to go swing.

I agree with you there!

[Bonaventura]

Sometimes I wonder if some of the so-called Lewis fans are actually Lewis haters trying reverse psychology. Well, it's working.

Do you really want to start with this stupid "hate" thing or the haters discussion once again?
Is this really necessary ?

My answer has nothing to do with hate or your so called haters

Soon forgotton your own high ideals in your starting post?

Edited by Bonaventura, 14 January 2011 - 12:31.

[mlsnoopy]

They've gone too far the other way though. Hamilton's strategies were **** last year, they seemed to concentrate more on Button's. Whitmarsh obviously is still in the throes of honeymoon with Button.

I hope things change this year. I want equality too, not what is going on now.

You are not considering that Button often qualified lower down the grid than he should have. And that its easier to make a strategy work when you need to pass slower cars.

[ArtShelley]

Do you really want to start with this stupid "hate" thing or the haters discussion once again?
Is this really necessary ?

My answer has nothing to do with hate or your so called haters

Soon forgotton your own high ideals in your starting post?

I'm being utterly serious. Some of the things the so-called fans say, makes me think they might actually be haters trying to embarrass the real fans.

For example, it could be quite a clever ploy by an Alonso hater to go into the Alonso thread and profess how the world is against Alonso and it is amazing how with the entire universe against him, he can even tie his shoelace let alone win races and hence he must be a demigod. I can only imagine that most of the Alonso fans would be cringing.

[bauss]

That Massa pass was beautiful. As much crap as Massa gets sometimes, I love it when he gets worked up and that was one of those times. There was just no way he was going to let it happen any other way. He locked his tyres up for so long, smoke pouring out but held it beautifully and took the corner. I would love to have known what Lewis was thinking just after that moment!

FFFFFFUUUUUUUUU!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited by bauss, 14 January 2011 - 12:37.

[Bonaventura]

I don't count that as an overtake. Didn't Alonso actually spin out then? Not an overtake by Lewis. He just went past.

than Alonsos overtaking in Korea was none, it was after the re- start
and Lewis had cold brakes and tyres

[Clatter]

I'm being utterly serious. Some of the things the so-called fans say, makes me think they might actually be haters trying to embarrass the real fans.

For example, it could be quite a clever ploy by an Alonso hater to go into the Alonso thread and profess how the world is against Alonso and it is amazing how with the entire universe against him, he can even tie his shoelace let alone win races and hence he must be a demigod. I can only imagine that most of the Alonso fans would be cringing.

When you have been here for a while you will find that it is quite easy to spot the haters/trolls.

[Yorkie]

So now the discussion goes from Alonso being arrogant for not specifically naming Hamilton as a threat, to the annoyance of Mclaren always refering first to Jenson and then to Lewis...

Are you guys sure youre not overreacting just a little tiny bit?

Well its the Lewis thread and you're going to get the Lewis angle regarding Alonso's strange remark about an underperforming driver would be his main competitor given a competitive car, as for the naming Jenson first i personally wasnt aware and dont care

Of course not. I was just being a bit naughty with my description of events, as usual.

The point is, despite some interpretations how Alonso was scared to death about the arrival of Hamilton behind him, he still managed to hold him up for quite a while (notwithstanding Hamilton being on fresher tyres, the reason in the first place for being much faster than the Ferraris).

Had Alonso jumped out of the way as readily as Hamilton did twice later in the season, the Webber incident wouldn't have happened.

I actually found the comment by Alonso quite endearing especially as he seemed to be covering Massa's arse at the time and being a team player as opposed to later in the season with the arm waving for Massa to get out of his way.

[jjcale]

I'm being utterly serious. Some of the things the so-called fans say, makes me think they might actually be haters trying to embarrass the real fans.

For example, it could be quite a clever ploy by an Alonso hater to go into the Alonso thread and profess how the world is against Alonso and it is amazing how with the entire universe against him, he can even tie his shoelace let alone win races and hence he must be a demigod. I can only imagine that most of the Alonso fans would be cringing.

So not as much of a fan as your are is too little .. but more than you are is too much??

[bauss]

So not as much of a fan as your are is too little .. but more than you are is too much??

[ArtShelley]

So not as much of a fan as your are is too little .. but more than you are is too much??

Not sure where you are getting that from jjcale? Where have I used myself as a reference? Where have I judged someone because they are less than a fan than me? Where have I judged someone because they are more than a fan than me?

What I have commented about is extremes. Ludicrous negative statements, and over the top "oh woe Lewis, mistreated by Whitmarsh the evil stepmother" paranoia.

Do you support either of those views? Why then should I?

[ArtShelley]

..and come now, be honest with me fellow Lewis fans. Which one of you here sometimes cringes when you read some of the over-the-top fanboyism posts? Hands up brave people.

[F1Newbie]

As a Lewis fan, i couldn't care less if Martin Whitmarsh mentioned him first or second. What indeed bother me it's bad strategy like the one in Australia. M. Whitmarsh can do all the PR he wants to make Jenosn look like a top driver. Those PR only work in UK anyways...

[undersquare]

..and come now, be honest with me fellow Lewis fans. Which one of you here sometimes cringes when you read some of the over-the-top fanboyism posts? Hands up brave people.

I don't expect always to agree with my fellow LH fans, a range of opinion is to be expected, tbh I cringe more when some fans claim to be better than others.

[Lokt]

..and come now, be honest with me fellow Lewis fans. Which one of you here sometimes cringes when you read some of the over-the-top fanboyism posts? Hands up brave people.

[bauss]

I don't expect always to agree with my fellow LH fans, a range of opinion is to be expected, tbh I cringe more when some fans claim to be better than others.

indeed

[Seanspeed]

I'm being utterly serious. Some of the things the so-called fans say, makes me think they might actually be haters trying to embarrass the real fans.

You're serious?

Sorry, I had to ask again.

Edited by Seanspeed, 14 January 2011 - 16:22.

[Buttoneer]

I have posted warning after warning about discussing other posters in this thread. Since you guys cannot stop discussing each other, the thread is now closed. When some Lewis news arises, feel free to start a new thread on that specific subject but I think a general thread for Lewis has long since run its course.