161 replies to this topic

[Cam2InfoNeeded]

Here are couple of photos of car interesting, but not as they eventually raced. I love to see the things that were tested, but not actually used in the formal races.


Denny Hulme in McLaren M8F

Shadow Mk1, closest to the original drawings, but before all of the changes made to make it 'practical"

Porsche 91710 pre-turbo(I think here) at Riverside (I think)

Porsche 917/10

Porsche 917/10

Porsche 917/10 in September (Can Am season ended on Oct 29), with 2 sets of rear tires tested

Porsche 956 with NACA ducts instead of square upper door ducting

Same as above, but Dale W. King's model of it (I think 1/24 scale)

Porsche 935/78 Mobydick with illegal NACA air intakes on sides of car used at Paul Richard testing

Old model of 935/78 Mobydick (by MRF) and new SPARK 1/43 model of car above

935/78 Mobydick with a 917/30-type treatment to the front of the fenders (there was a 1/43 model of this car, but very rare)

Edited by Cam2InfoNeeded, 24 January 2010 - 22:43.

[race4aliving]

Great photo's.

[D-Type]

Is it asking too much to request captions for the benefit of those who are not as familiar with the subjects as yourself?

In particular what is the red, presumably Can-Am, car in the second picture?

[bigears]

A Shadow I assume, as I can recognise the size of the front tyre and the nose of the car.

[Cam2InfoNeeded]

Is it asking too much to request captions for the benefit of those who are not as familiar with the subjects as yourself?

D-Type,

Sorry, I hope this helps.

I hoped this would be a seed to get other to share their photos, too. I'm sure other people must have some interesting photos as well.

WHAT YOU GOT?

Edited by Cam2InfoNeeded, 24 January 2010 - 22:47.

[D-Type]

Ah, that's better

[Eric Dunsdon]

Great photo's.

The snap of the red Shadow actually made me laugh...Was it for real?.

[f1steveuk]

Couldn't agree more, as a boy, Autosport during the winter months with all sorts of weird stuff being tried, loved, great posts, and thread!

[Cam2InfoNeeded]

Eric,

I don't know the dates, but this is apparently a real test session. Looks like Riverside, and George Follmer. I hope George didn't have to make too many really fast, tight turns.





I wonder the connection was to Parnelli Jones and this photo?

I was surprised to find that the car actually ran in its original configuration, before all of the giant wings, radiator and such got tacked on to the tail section. Didn't someone ever think that adding all of that weight so far above the car would defeat the initial effort to get the center of gravity as low as possible in the first place? I know that drag was also a major reason for the super-low profile tires and squashed body, but come on, a huge rear wings with the radiators in it (and behind the rear wheels)? Seems to have been trying to rewrite the physics textbooks back then. Fortunately, Mr. Nichols didn't give up and eventual came up with some brilliant, race-worthy cars.

Edited by Cam2InfoNeeded, 25 January 2010 - 20:02.

[Rosemayer]

Edited by Rosemayer, 25 January 2010 - 21:22.

[Cam2InfoNeeded]

Rosemayer,

That is really the first version I remember on the cover of Road & Track back in August of 1969. It had that very unusual intake manifold(?) and as low as any car could have imagined (or apparently designed). I wonder how much is really under the body shell of this car?

This site (Gurney Flap) is one I stumbled upon a while ago, but glad you brought it to our attention again. Thanks!

Edited by Cam2InfoNeeded, 25 January 2010 - 21:10.

[Cam2InfoNeeded]

I think this car may have actually raced this way, but thought it one of the most odd cars I've ever seen.


I am really just posting something in order to try to get this topic going again. I'm sort of disappointed that no one else had added anything to it. I thought it would be a great new addition to bring out of those rare and seldom seen photos of all of the weird things tried to a car which didn't work, or at least weren't in the more finalized race configuration. I mainly just posted up Can am and sports cars, but I'd love to see anything.

Doesn't anyone have any odd ball things to share with others? I'm sure the race teams tried all sorts of things to find that extra edge over their competition.

Edited by Cam2InfoNeeded, 05 February 2010 - 20:03.

[hansfohr]

I think this car may have actually raced this way, but thought it one of the most odd cars I've ever seen.

Derek Daly's Ensign N179 with the remarkable frontmounted radiator never ran in a GP. AFAIK it was only seen during practice for the 1979 US GP at Long Beach and during testing on the Kyalami track.

Edited by hansfohr, 06 February 2010 - 00:18.

[eldougo]

I remember speaking to Derek Daly about the heat and he said it was not to bad considering the position of the water and oil coolers (small) at the top,however his feet got a bit hot but it was in South Africa where it began its short life in that format . The hot air came out near the front suspension points for the water and along side the cockpit for the oil cooler.
At long Beach it was gone and Derek said the ground effects did not exist, he went out with the skirts removed it made not difference.

[Phigr7]

Le Mans Test Day 28/04/1996

[proviz]

Sorry to say I cannot contribute much to this thread, because I don't have a scanner. Just wish to state that this could be the most interesting topic of all. We can never see too much of racing cars in original or experimental specs.

[Mansell4PM]

Would cars in pre-season liveries qualify for inclusion in this thread?

I always had a bit of a soft spot for the orange McLarens in pre-season testing in recent years. I always thought it a nice nod to the team's past liveries, and something to be applauded.

[Cam2InfoNeeded]

It's up to everyone else on what to include. I personally would like to see the oddball hardware and bodies, but if you've got oddball markings, what does everyone else think about that?

[Cam2InfoNeeded]

I saw this photo posted on another topic here, and thought I repost it in this topic.

"Actually Bruce McLaren experimented with an aerofoil on the M2A Firestone test car. During a test on the Zandvoort track in November 1965 the device gave a massive 3 seconds improvement per lap. It's very hard to comprehend that it was immediately forgotten for more than two years!

This post has been edited by hansfohr: Feb 4 2010, 14:03"

[armchair]

It's up to everyone else on what to include. I personally would like to see the oddball hardware and bodies

I have gathered some pictures off the Net about a one-off Fiat-Abarth called SE 035. It is based on a 131 Abarth Rally but with a supercharged engine (of the kind later to be found on the Lancia Rally 037), plus some aero modifications because the car was planned to be raced at Le Mans (1980 I believe), where the brick-like aerodynamics of the 131 were unsuitable.











I Hope this is interesting to somebody, and I readily accept corrections and/or additions.

Marco from Milan, Italy

[eldougo]

The Woolworth Wonder F1 car, below is the Scarab in it purest form just after it had been made in 1959 with Lance Reventlow the son of Barbara Hutton the Woolworths heiress.

[Duc-Man]

The Chaparral 2H in it's original layout...


...and the monster it became

[eldougo]

Holy Hell that WING makes a Sprint car ones look small .. Thanks Duc-Man

[eldougo]

Racing without the BIG wing. John Surtees at the wheel.

[hansfohr]

The first prototype of the Honda RA 270 which was tested by Black Jack. Those outrageous exhaustpipes (which only featured om the prototype) reminds me of Beltoise's Matra MS11.

[werks prototype]

This is a great thread. The rear of that shadow is amazing. Has anybody ever seen an actual photo of the Williams FW14B Carbon Fibre Test car from 1992, it was recently made in diecast model form but its real counterpart appears to be a mythical construct?

[hansfohr]

This is a great thread. The rear of that shadow is amazing. Has anybody ever seen an actual photo of the Williams FW14B Carbon Fibre Test car from 1992, it was recently made in diecast model form but its real counterpart appears to be a mythical construct?

Is this image of the FW14B testcar meeting your expectations?

[D-Type]

Is this image of the FW14B testcar meeting your expectations?

Artist's impression rather than a photo of the actual car surely?

[werks prototype]

Is this image of the FW14B testcar meeting your expectations?

Thanks Hans but unfortunately that is the Diecast Model. I actually have that model.

[Tony Matthews]

Artist's impression rather than a photo of the actual car surely?

Looks like a model to me - an actual model, not virtual, but it don't look real. Just something about it. I never saw one in carbon, by the time I went to the factory they were painted. Unlike all the Indy cars I saw, 90° were black.

[Tony Matthews]

Hey, wp, you beat me to it! What scale is it?

[hansfohr]

Thanks Hans but unfortunately that is the Diecast Model. I actually have that model.

At first sight it looked like the genuine one!

[werks prototype]

Hey, wp, you beat me to it! What scale is it?

It is a 1-18 scale Tony. And It 'almost' comes completely apart to reveal it's inner wonders. However, it doesn't compare to your own working drawing of the liveried 14B which in my humble opinion is definitive a study as a person is ever likely to see.

[werks prototype]

Porsche 935 'Test'

[f1steveuk]

Not quite the thread subject, but................ "Steve Johnson" looks on




an unpainted Mercedes, apprently one of the first times it ran, and



JMF probably before sampling the V16, a couple of very recognisable faces looking on!

[Cam2InfoNeeded]

This sure looks like it should have worked (it was tested but not used for Le Mans)....

[Duc-Man]

This sure looks like it should have worked (it was tested but not used for Le Mans)....

There is a whole thread about 917's with snorkels:http://forums.autosp...che 917 snorkel

[stevewf1]

Never saw it in action, but I sure do remember reading about and seeing photos of that car.

I often long for the "good 'ol days", but sometimes...

[werks prototype]

The 'Slug'



I realise that it is highly unlikely that the original 'Jet' equiped Cooper Mk5 Snecma Pulse Jet car ever really left a prototype mode, even when running. However it would be interesting to see any unique images of this particular beast 'in action' as it were. Obviously material distinct from that which has appeared in the few threads here that already mention the development of this car.

+ I am starting to come to the conclusion that the mythical FW14B carbon fibre test car really is a myth, since it is nigh on impossible to find any proof of the car at any track. Doesn't mean it isn't out there though?

[eldougo]

... Air cooled Honda F1. Big John at the test wheel in 1968 .

[Alan Cox]

I wonder where the authorisation for the posting of a lot of these copyright photos came from.....

[Phigr7]

I wonder where the authorisation for the posting of a lot of these copyright photos came from.....

I got my authorisation to post my picture of the 1996 911GT1

[Cam2InfoNeeded]

I found mine using Google "Image" search.

[beighes]

Greetings,
Being a illustrator, I know a bit about copyright issues (here in the U.S.). Please remember that just because it was found via Google Image Search, does not give one the rights to use an image. If I am wrong, please let me know.
Cheers,
Steve

[Cam2InfoNeeded]

Sorry, I'm not an illustrator, or lawyer. This is a bit above my head, and would seem to apply to every image posted on the entire Autosport website. It would seem like you would be more fruitful with the contesting the "The cutaway drawing and its artists" topic, seeing as they have over 100 times the content than this rather small topic. From what I can recall, except for the Williams illustration, which I thought I've already seen somewhere else on this site, there have only been photos posted here.

Edited by Cam2InfoNeeded, 25 March 2010 - 02:08.

[f1steveuk]

Well I'm safe with my pictures, especially the big two (the W196 and Fangio in a the V16) as I brought them direct from the photographer with copyright. Having said that, I have seen other pictures I brought in the same batch, and posted on here, appear on other forums. I'm afraid it seems once something is on "the net" you'd have a hard time stopping it!

[Duc-Man]

... If one wants to use a photo from a website as an illustration, post a link to the image.

Well...there are two ways to post a link possible here:
a) it shows up as a written link to click on.
b) it shows up as a picture to look at.

There is also a difference between posting a link {as in b)} and uploding something you dont have copyright for to an image hoster. Isn't it?

If this forum is so concerned about copyright violation they should remove the 'insert image' button from the menu for the start...?

...just my opinion.

[D-Type]

Well...there are two ways to post a link possible here:
a) it shows up as a written link to click on.
b) it shows up as a picture to look at.

There is also a difference between posting a link {as in b)} and uploding something you dont have copyright for to an image hoster. Isn't it?

If this forum is so concerned about copyright violation they should remove the 'insert image' button from the menu for the start...?

...just my opinion.

If there's a brick in your neighbour's front garden it is possible to throw it through his window. That doesn't make it legal to do so.

Likewise the 'insert image' button makes it possible to legally upload (ie publish) pictures where you own the copyright or have the owner's permission. It also makes it possible to illegally upload (or publish) pictures that you don't own rights to, but just because you can it doesn't make it legal to do so.

[Cam2InfoNeeded]

I'm not really interested on this topic turning into a discussion about copyright, and hope it can get back to what it was originally intended to do; share obscure photos of rare variations of racing cars in testing configurations.

I do understand everyone's concern though. But when I search one Google "Images", maybe I'm not paying attention, but I seldom ever see an obvious copyright. I sometimes see someone or some site put their logo on a photo, but does this mean that they are the sole legal owner of it, or someone wanting to get some publicity for their site.

Take this for example, is it copyrighted or the website's promotion? I serious doubt if this is an original photo from them.



Or what if someone does put's a name and a date, does this mean it is legal protected under the US copyright laws? What is actually required to make it both legal, and clear to people stumbling upon while searching the Internet? What would stop anyone one from claiming a copyright on an image that they just found? I'm not trying to stir up trouble, but as said above, once something gets out on the Internet, it doesn't seem possible to constrain it, especially when you don't know where it came from.

Like all aspects of the Internet/technology, there are seemingly great benefits, but also some great costs.

Edited by Cam2InfoNeeded, 25 March 2010 - 19:52.

[D-Type]

I'm not really interested on this topic turning into a discussion about copyright, etc

The forum ground rules are on this sticky at the top of the opening page.
And the discussion on this 4-page thread has covered it all so there's no need to drag this thread off topic.

Edited by D-Type, 26 March 2010 - 13:23.