34 replies to this topic

[Dimo]

Does anyone know what the advantage of pit position is? I know they align the garages based on constructor's finish, so I presume there must be some advantage to having the first pit. Does anyone know what that is?

At one time it may have been terminal speed (as the cars join back into the flow), but with the speed limiters releasing at the same spot that is no longer an issue.

Can anyone enlighten me?

[pRy]

The main advantage being first in the pit lane is not having a team to your left.. for example :


[ pit 1 ] [ pit 2 ] [ pit 3 ]

So a driver can in theory have a smoother entry into the 1st pit area, rather than having to turn sharply into his pit if he was turning into pit 2 or pit 3 for example, avoiding the team that are next door.


-----,___[ pit 1 ] [ pit 2]

----------
[ pit 1 ] [ pit 2]

Its not a clear cut advantage, but it reduces the caution a driver may have to take, and it also reduces the chances of the team next door getting in the way. The driver has a clear sight of his pit lane, and his pit guys too.

[Vunz]

I remember Ferrari being at the end of the pitlane in at least one race this year, so that they had a clear exit. Am I right or do I need a check-up from the neck-up?

[Maldwyn]

The WCs get the first pit making an easier "drive-in" entry, other teams have to "parallel park" between other teams except the team finishing last in the WC who have a "drive-out" exit.
There have been examples of drivers being unsighted by opposing team members and even driving into the wrong pit, although I can't remember who at the moment.

[Vunz]

Irvine has driven accidentally into the Ligier pit in '94 when he was driving for Jordan. I don't know who was more surprised, the pitcrew or Eddie.

[Dimo]

I dunno...driving in straight, or not getting lost, seems like a marginal advantage at best. And if that is the only advantage, that would mean there is no discernable difference between 2nd and 11th in the pits.

There must be something more to it, no?

[moog101]

Ahh, but did they have 4 wheels to put on the car. Assuming they could find 4 they would be one up on his last paymasters, Ferrari.

[Dimo]

Maybe they should have sent Irvine out with the three wheels. I seem to recall MS driving fairly comfortably with a wheel missing...

[Max Torque]

It's not of big importance really. The only (minor) advantage is what pRy mentioned. After all it would be illegal if the last year WCC would receive preferential treatment of any kind. They just have to assign pits to the teams so they decide to give them out according to WCC position, that's all.

And Vunz, you probably imagined that. Even if they wanted such a thing (since it doesn't give any advantage it's meaningless), they wouldn't be allowed to do it. The positions you get are strict and permanent throughout the year.

[Ursus]

In Monaco you actually get a pit garage next to the track if you finished high in the WCC.

[Spot]

I think the main thing is prestige. Also, at places like Imola, you get a larger paddock area at the 'fashionable' end.

[Gruff]

Although not relevent now, but having a pit box at the start (ish) of the pit lane helped MS in Silverstone when he took his 'winning 10 sec penalty'. If his box was down the far end of the lane, it would have taken him a further 5 or 10 secs to reach his box.

Also, places like Spa where the exit is very tight, it is harder to turn into the corner. I remember a couple of years ago when a Minardi (Badoer I think) pulled out of his box, before having to immediately change direction and take the sharp right out of the pits. He got loads of wheelspin and did well not to "do a Coulthard".

[Spot]

Gruff,

I don't think MS's pit box being further down the road would have made any difference - it was when he crossed the start/finish line that counted.

However, had his pit box been further UP the road, i.e. before the finish line, that would have been a different story...

[Vunz]

Originally posted by Max Torque
And Vunz, you probably imagined that. Even if they wanted such a thing (since it doesn't give any advantage it's meaningless), they wouldn't be allowed to do it. The positions you get are strict and permanent throughout the year.

Well, it gives the same advantage as being at the start of the pitlane, you don't have to swerve to avoid another team, you can drive straight out.

But I take word for it that they stayed at the pitlane entrance.

[tim]

Maldwyn, at Jerez in '97, after Frentzen had done his bit by holding up MS so JV could catch up to him (well done Heinz!), he pitted in the Mclaren pit by accident, realised what he had done, drove through the Bennetton pit (sending wheel guns and whatnot everywhere) to get to the Williams pit. There was a pact between Williams and Mclaren so that MH and DC wouldn't get in the way of JV (remember MH quite happily staying behind the slow moving HHF after JV's first stop), but I didn't think it went so far as to have Mclaren service Frentzen's Williams...

[CONOSUR]

If I'm not mistaken, the WCC is awarded their choice of pit locations, which they may change, at their discretion, at each venue. The WCC can choose either end of the pit lane. The rest of the teams then line up in sequence. Without going to the tape to verify, I do believe it was in Australia this year that Ferrari chose the last pit. In addition to location, they also receive more garage space if it's available. At Indy, Ferrari had 5 garages to McL's 4, Jordan's 3, etc.

As for advantages, they've been pretty well stated here, with one exception, and that is that it's much safer for the crew if they're in the first spot. They don't have to lift their hoses or move their gear in order to keep from getting run over by the driver next to them.

Ciao

[John]

Vunz!
You are most correct. I attend the Canadian GP and indeed, the top constructors are at the end of the pit lane, closest to the exit.

I would say 1st or last has a slight advantage.
If you are in the 1st garage of the pit lane (near the entrance) don't you have right-of-way down the pit lane when you pass the other garages on the way to exit?? Maybe?

[Ross Stonefeld]

At most tracks they try to get the closest pit to pit entry, probably for ease of access. I think at Canada they traditionally go further down the end of the pitlane, I think it has something to do with the nature of the Canada pit entry

[Golden_Rider]

Yes, the advantage of pit lane position is not so much the ease of driving in or out of the pit lane. At Monaco, for example, the teams better placed in last year's CC get their garages directly next to the track, while the other teams have to use, IIRC, garages farther away and only accessible via an elevator. At other tracks, the better teams get larger garages than the smaller teams. All in all, it's about convenience.

[Spot]

Here's a thought - during qualifying, a car can be called in to the weighbridge at any time, and the engine must be switched off while it is being weighed. The team members then have to push the car back to the pit to work on it before it gets sent out again.

Ergo, the pits closer to the entry get a large service time advantage compared to those at the far end - how long does it take to push an F1 car the length of the pit lane?

[Vunz]

Originally posted by John
Vunz!
You are most correct. I attend the Canadian GP and indeed, the top constructors are at the end of the pit lane, closest to the exit.

I would say 1st or last has a slight advantage.
If you are in the 1st garage of the pit lane (near the entrance) don't you have right-of-way down the pit lane when you pass the other garages on the way to exit?? Maybe?

That's a relief, I was right and my mind wasn't playing games. It's probably because the way out in Canada can be a straight line whereas they way in has this 'S' turn.

[orange]

If more races are decided like the one won by MS in SilverStone'98 then the grid position is crutial..

[SeeingRed]

Orange, I hope we don't see any more finishes like Silverstone 98. The British race stewards screwed up big time.

[Dimo]

Originally posted by CONOSUR

"What's behind me is not important."

A little OT, but...CONOSUR: if this quote is from that racing movie, isn't the correct wording, "What behind me is none of my business"

[Ross Stonefeld]

At Silverstone the finish line was before all the pit boxes, in that case placement didnt matter

[ScoobyDo]

Dimo

The quote is from 'The Cannonball Run'

The Italian Driver (Can't remember his name) rips off his rear view mirror with the line:

"1st rule of Italian Driving... What is behind me is not important."

(Maybe the Drivers name was Fisicella (however it's spelt))

[HappyDude]

Maybe it has nothing to do with giving an advantage to the winner last year (why would you want to?) but instead it's just an obvious way to decide in a fairly arbitrary manner who goes where, so there can be no arguing about someone getting preferential treatment at a particular track because a certain pit is located more/less favourably due to individual peculiarities of each track. They have to choose the order somehow, and this way is as good and impartial as any other.

[Dimo]

Originally posted by ScoobyDo
The quote is from 'The Cannonball Run'

The Italian Driver (Can't remember his name) rips off his rear view mirror with the line:

"1st rule of Italian Driving... What is behind me is not important."

Damn. I have been misquoting that line for years. I always thought he said "none of my business". Gawd knows where I got that from.

By the way, the driver's name was "Franco" and was played by the late Raul Julia. It also was not from The Cannonball Run; it was from The Gumball Rally.

The following is info is from IMDB:

http://us.imdb.com/Quotes?0074597

"Memorable Quotes from
Gumball Rally, The (1976)

[Franco ripes off his rear-view mirror and throws it aside.]
Franco: What's-a behind-a me is-a not important!"

[Dimo]

Originally posted by HappyDude
Maybe it has nothing to do with giving an advantage to the winner last year (why would you want to?)

Hey Happy,

That's a damn fine question, however that is clearly what FIA wants to accomplish. For example, this is the list of "prize money" they awarded to the top 10 finishers (this year, everyone but Prost):

Ferrari $13
McLaren $11.3
Williams $8.7
Benetton $7
BAR $6.5
Jordan $6
Arrows $4.6
Sauber $4.2
Jaguar $3.3
Minardi $2.6

They also split a percentage of the TV revenues amongst the teams in a similar manner. This year that amounted to another $118 million.

This clearly makes life easier for the winners to repeat and the losers to continue struggling.

Care to ask again if F1 wants to give an advantage to the winners?

[HappyDude]

*sigh*.. that's pretty sad, but I guess I shouldn't expect anything else.

But the question still remains, why would you want to give an advantage to the previous year's winner? If the goal is to make as much money as possible (which it most definitely is) then wouldn't it be better to do something to boost the weaker teams, a sort of monetary handicap, thereby promoting closer racing?

[Dimo]

Originally posted by HappyDude
wouldn't it be better to do something to boost the weaker teams, a sort of monetary handicap, thereby promoting closer racing?

Agreed. Unfortunately it is not likely to happen.

There will always be Ferraris & Macs, and there will always be Minardis.

[Dimo]

And in a related story...

"Following their defeat by Ferrari in the 2000 World Championship battle, McLaren are looking to substantially increase their expenditure for next year by up to 15%. With their current budget estimated at $120 million, this would represent an increase of $18 million, according to Auto, Motor und Sport.

McLaren could also see a continued rise in the support and commitment they receive from engine partner, Mercedes, after the German manufacturer withdrew from the American CART series, freeing up approximately $30 million.

Mercedes is likely to spend part of this money on Ilmor, the UK based company that manufactures the engines."


This should help Minardi close the gap...

[CONOSUR]

Well, Dimo, it seems as though you finally found the correct answer to your question. I wondered how long I could post that without listing the source of the quote before someone brought it up. Guess I'll have to change it now...

Ciao

[rayyu882]

IMO, I think further down the pit lane has a little more adventage when both car pit at once! Recall San Marino, that's how DC got in front of RB

[scokim]

The advantage of having your pit position nearer to the beginning of the lane would be so that your car can be serviced earlier. This is most crucial especially when the car needs to be repaired urgently, e.g. puncture, front wing replacement. The further a car has to limp to the pit crew the more time it loses.