113 replies to this topic

[Captain Tightpants]

Okay, so one of everyone's favourite things to whinge about is the way that Formula 1 has gone to a series of Nowhereistans and "sandpit" Grands Prix. Ignoring for the moment the fallacy that this has been at the expense of European events (there are still British, Spanish, German, Italian, Belgian and Monte Carlo races, plus other long-standing events like Canada, Australia, Brazil and Hungary; it's only really the French, American and Austrian races that have suffered), I'm curious: where, exactly, should Formula 1 have gone?

I'm not going to include France and America in the poll, and for good reason: I don't need a poll to tell us all that you think races should be there, and doing so would skew the results.

[Xaus]

Developing and emerging countries from Eastern Europe, Russia, parts of Asia MAYBE, and definitely a focus on Pacific countries. I think a South Korean grand prix was long overdue.

[Sakae]

Up to Ural, Russia is part of Europe

then there is

Europe East, or East of Europe, but definitely not Eastern Europe

Edited by MiPe, 06 February 2010 - 13:23.

[noikeee]

A mix of as many geographical regions as possible, as many great tracks as possible, as many places with high crowd interest as possible, and as many countries with history as possible.

Might have to post my ideal calendar yet again:

Round 1 - Australian GP - Melbourne
Round 2 - Malaysian GP - Sepang
Round 3 - South African GP - Kyalami
Round 4 - Bahrain GP - Sakhir
Round 5 - Turkish GP - Istanbul
Round 6 - Spanish GP - Motorland Aragón
Round 7 - Monaco GP - Monte Carlo
Round 8 - Canadian GP - Montreal
Round 9 - USA GP - Long Beach
Round 10 - Mexican GP - Hermanos Rodriguez
Round 11 - French GP - Le Mans Circuit de la Sarthe
Round 12 - British GP - Silverstone
Round 13 - German GP - Hockenheim
Round 14 - Czech GP - Brno
Round 15 - Belgian GP - Spa-Francorchamps
Round 16 - Italian GP - Monza
Round 17 - Portuguese GP - Portimão
Round 18 - Singapore GP - Marina Bay
Round 19 - Japanese GP - Suzuka
Round 20 - Chinese GP - Macau
Round 21 - Argentinian GP - Potrero de los Funes
Round 22 - Brazilian GP - Interlagos

And yes, those are too many circuits. Cut off the czech, the chinese, the malaysian and the turkish and there's an almost realistic 18. Swap 2 or 3 locations that are optimistic (Le Mans, Long Beach) by more likely choices (Paul Ricard, Indianapolis) and it's viable. Just not as profitable as the current calendar...

[Xaus]

Nice calendar. I'd chop off South Africa, Turkey, Bahrain, Mexico, and Chinese.

[ZenSpeed]

Okay, so one of everyone's favourite things to whinge about is the way that Formula 1 has gone to a series of Nowhereistans and "sandpit" Grands Prix. Ignoring for the moment the fallacy that this has been at the expense of European events (there are still British, Spanish, German, Italian, Belgian and Monte Carlo races, plus other long-standing events like Canada, Australia, Brazil and Hungary; it's only really the French, American and Austrian races that have suffered), I'm curious: where, exactly, should Formula 1 have gone?

I'm not going to include France and America in the poll, and for good reason: I don't need a poll to tell us all that you think races should be there, and doing so would skew the results.

What's the difference between South America and Latin America?

[Risil]

How would Russia's climate deal with a racing surface? In Montreal the problems with track break-up are extreme.

[TheF1PERSON]

To be honest, some of the locations where F1 has gone are the right places, it's just the tracks aren't good enough for racing.

[Andrew Hope]

They just need to go back to the old tracks. The cars aren't fireballs waiting to happen anymore, the circuits don't need to be anywhere near as 'safe' as they are now.

[Captain Tightpants]

What's the difference between South America and Latin America?

Geography, mostly. The border between Panama and Colombia is where one ends and the other begins.

How would Russia's climate deal with a racing surface? In Montreal the problems with track break-up are extreme.

It would be fine in the summer, especially if you has the circuit somewhere near the Black Sea.

They just need to go back to the old tracks. The cars aren't fireballs waiting to happen anymore, the circuits don't need to be anywhere near as 'safe' as they are now.

What "old tracks" do they need to go back to? Silverstone, Spa, Monaco, Monza, Hockenheim, Interlagos, Gilles Villeneuve and not-quite-as-old-but-certainly-not-recent circuits like the Hungaroring and Catalunya are still on the calendar. The only ones which have fallen off are Imola (which is just chicanes now, anyway), the A1-Ring (which is in no condition to race, thanks to tree-huggers and NIMBYs), the French race (though Dijon was too short and I'd hardly call Magny-Cours worth returning to) and Watkins Glen (which was deemed unsafe).

[Andrew Hope]

Zandvoort and Long Beach, although you mentioned most of the circuits I had in mind off the top of my head.

[senna da silva]

Geography, mostly. The border between Panama and Colombia is where one ends and the other begins.

Wrong. There is North and South America, period. Latin America is the area of the Americas where people speak latin based languages (ie; Spanish).

Edited by senna da silva, 06 February 2010 - 01:43.

[ZenSpeed]

Geography, mostly. The border between Panama and Colombia is where one ends and the other begins.

In your imagination, maybe.

You are confusing Central America with Latin America. Brazil and Argentina are in Latin America and are in South America. South America is part of Latin America, which includes also Central America (Honduras, Panama, etc.).

For a definition of Latin America you can follow the link:

Latin America

Edited by ZenSpeed, 06 February 2010 - 02:09.

[ZenSpeed]

Wrong. There is North and South America, period. Latin America is the area of the Americas where people speak latin based languages (ie; Spanish).;)

Exactly. They speak Spanish, Portuguese and French, all Latin languages

[Willow Rosenberg]

Geography, mostly. The border between Panama and Colombia is where one ends and the other begins.


It would be fine in the summer, especially if you has the circuit somewhere near the Black Sea.


What "old tracks" do they need to go back to? Silverstone, Spa, Monaco, Monza, Hockenheim, Interlagos, Gilles Villeneuve and not-quite-as-old-but-certainly-not-recent circuits like the Hungaroring and Catalunya are still on the calendar. The only ones which have fallen off are Imola (which is just chicanes now, anyway), the A1-Ring (which is in no condition to race, thanks to tree-huggers and NIMBYs), the French race (though Dijon was too short and I'd hardly call Magny-Cours worth returning to) and Watkins Glen (which was deemed unsafe).

They could build some new old tracks instead of building new new ones. Then I wouldn't care where they are.

[pingu666]

with the greatly reduced testing, i dont think having more grand prix's is such a issue

[senna da silva]

Exactly. They speak Spanish, Portuguese and French, all Latin languages

Although I've never considered Quebec as part of latin america.

Edited by senna da silva, 06 February 2010 - 02:17.

[ZenSpeed]

What "old tracks" do they need to go back to? Silverstone, Spa, Monaco, Monza, Hockenheim, Interlagos, Gilles Villeneuve and not-quite-as-old-but-certainly-not-recent circuits like the Hungaroring and Catalunya are still on the calendar. The only ones which have fallen off are Imola (which is just chicanes now, anyway), the A1-Ring (which is in no condition to race, thanks to tree-huggers and NIMBYs), the French race (though Dijon was too short and I'd hardly call Magny-Cours worth returning to) and Watkins Glen (which was deemed unsafe).

Take Hockenheim off the list, this is not the old track. Imagine Monza without the straights and that's present Hockenheim.

[ZenSpeed]

Although I've never considered Quebec as part of latin america.

French Guiana.........

[Captain Tightpants]

Wrong. There is North and South America, period. Latin America is the area of the Americas where people speak latin based languages (ie; Spanish).;)

For the purposes of this thread, it's enough. If I'd just posted "Latin America", it could mean anywhere from the Rio Grande - or even anywhere in the USA with a significant Latin population - all the way down to the tip of South America. Call them South Ameria and the Caribbean if you must; I simply needed a geographical reference point.

Take Hockenheim off the list, this is not the old track. Imagine Monza without the straights and that's present Hockenheim.

I don't understand the bitching about Hockenheim. It's pretty obvious that the circuit was too long to be safely serviced, and at least Tilke tried to retain the character of the old circuit with a long, sweeping corner. It's closer to Hockenheim than if he had turned off the old circuit and added something like the back section of Shangahi to connect it back up. Besides, the old Hockhenheim with all its chicanes was pretty boring. If you want a watered-down version of the original circuit, look no further than that. I wasn't around to ever see it raced, but to me, the real Hockenheim is the one that was flat out all the way around. None of this chicane business, thanks.

But this thread isn't about that.

Edited by Captain Tightpants, 06 February 2010 - 02:30.

[senna da silva]

For the purposes of this thread, it's enough. If I'd just posted "Latin America", it could mean anywhere from the Rio Grande - or even anywhere in the USA with a significant Latin population - all the way down to the tip of South America. Call them South Ameria and the Caribbean if you must; I simply needed a geographical reference point.

Except that pretty much leaves out North America and particularily the USA, which is exactly where F1 should be!

[ZenSpeed]

For the purposes of this thread, it's enough. If I'd just posted "Latin America", it could mean anywhere from the Rio Grande - or even anywhere in the USA with a significant Latin population - all the way down to the tip of South America. Call them South Ameria and the Caribbean if you must; I simply needed a geographical reference point.

Yes, but then your also offered South America as a choice, which is already included as part of Latin America, therefore redundant. Then when I pointed it out to you, you went off to give me a lesson on geographical borders, while ignoring the very definition of what you were talking about.

Regarding Hockenheim.....the long straights were what made the circuit. Cut those, you killed it. Draw a series of turns and chicanes inside Monza park, leave all the straights out and you DON'T have Monza anymore. Quite simple, really

[kr964]

Except that pretty much leaves out North America and particularily the USA, which is exactly where F1 should be!

This is why the option to choose is Moon.

[pinnacle racing]

Aside from the US, a few more races in India, Russia, South Africa, and another South American country would be ideal for me. The trick is which existing gp should be removed from the calendar. Turkey seems like a candidate for removal. Does Spain really merit 2 gp's? Can't Bahrain and Abu Dhabi rotate? Same with Singapore and Malaysia.

[ZenSpeed]

Aside from the US, a few more races in India, Russia, South Africa, and another South American country would be ideal for me. The trick is which existing gp should be removed from the calendar. Turkey seems like a candidate for removal. Does Spain really merit 2 gp's? Can't Bahrain and Abu Dhabi rotate? Same with Singapore and Malaysia.

Bahrain, Abu Dhabi and Singapore have no reason to exist other than they make Bernie that much richer

Edited by ZenSpeed, 06 February 2010 - 06:04.

[Captain Tightpants]

Does Spain really merit 2 gp's?

Spain has two races to capitalise on the popularity of Alonso.

And I don't think Sepang shoud alternate. It's a fine venue, made that much more challenging for the drivers by the local climate conditions.

[Nobody]

A race somewhere in Scandinavia is a good idea I think. A Russian race would also be good.

[aditya-now]

A mix of as many geographical regions as possible, as many great tracks as possible, as many places with high crowd interest as possible, and as many countries with history as possible.

Might have to post my ideal calendar yet again:

Round 1 - Australian GP - Melbourne
Round 2 - Malaysian GP - Sepang
Round 3 - South African GP - Kyalami
Round 4 - Bahrain GP - Sakhir
Round 5 - Turkish GP - Istanbul
Round 6 - Spanish GP - Motorland Aragón
Round 7 - Monaco GP - Monte Carlo
Round 8 - Canadian GP - Montreal
Round 9 - USA GP - Long Beach
Round 10 - Mexican GP - Hermanos Rodriguez
Round 11 - French GP - Le Mans Circuit de la Sarthe
Round 12 - British GP - Silverstone
Round 13 - German GP - Hockenheim
Round 14 - Czech GP - Brno
Round 15 - Belgian GP - Spa-Francorchamps
Round 16 - Italian GP - Monza
Round 17 - Portuguese GP - Portimão
Round 18 - Singapore GP - Marina Bay
Round 19 - Japanese GP - Suzuka
Round 20 - Chinese GP - Macau
Round 21 - Argentinian GP - Potrero de los Funes
Round 22 - Brazilian GP - Interlagos



And yes, those are too many circuits. Cut off the czech, the chinese, the malaysian and the turkish and there's an almost realistic 18. Swap 2 or 3 locations that are optimistic (Le Mans, Long Beach) by more likely choices (Paul Ricard, Indianapolis) and it's viable. Just not as profitable as the current calendar...

This is a proper calendar, paranoik0, and a decent number of races as well! Hats off to that.

[BRK]

How about staying unchanged,as it was? I certainly think it's necessary to expand globally,but one representative circuit for each region would be enough.

[notguilty56]

Spain has two races to capitalise on the popularity of Alonso.

Plus: 3 drivers and a real F1 fever: An attendance of 36.000 this wednesday at Valencia tests (BTW, what do they do?)

[Gbain]

A race somewhere in Scandinavia is a good idea I think. A Russian race would also be good.

Also went for Scandinavia, but St. Petersburg would be also nice. At the beginning of the season, lets say April? One cold track amongst all those desert and hot ones would be a nice change.

[Captain Tightpants]

Plus: 3 drivers and a real F1 fever: An attendance of 36.000 this wednesday at Valencia tests (BTW, what do they do?)

Do you really think they would have gone to see Alguersuari and de la Rosa if Alonso wasn't there?

[Sammyosammy]

Also went for Scandinavia, but St. Petersburg would be also nice. At the beginning of the season, lets say April? One cold track amongst all those desert and hot ones would be a nice change.

So Helsinki it is..? Fit it into the calendar and the heat won´t be a problem...

[Andrew Hope]

Mantorp Park .

[notguilty56]

Do you really think they would have gone to see Alguersuari and de la Rosa if Alonso wasn't there?

Of course, no. Algersuari and Pedro are there because there were 35.500 Alonso supporters (450 left for Pedro, 50 for Jaime ) on a testing day, but my point is that Spanish fever for F1 has come to the point that, for the first time in history, there are three Spanish drivers in F1 (maybe 4), and sponsors, like Banco de Santander, are scratching their pockets out. If you knew how passionate people are here about this sport right now, you would accept not 2, but 3, or 4 GP's.
BTW, I remember how happy i was when Perez Sala got one point in 1989, and nobody but a bunch of "weirds" like me seemed to notice it.

It happened exactly the same with MotoGP. When Angel Nieto won 13 (12+1, he says) championships, from 1971 to 1984, he started a passion for the two wheels that makes countless the number of Spaniards riding a sport bike right now, and breaking records of attendance at every GP held here (3, this season)

(hope you understand my english)

Edited by notguilty56, 06 February 2010 - 11:42.

[Risil]

It would be fine in the summer, especially if you has the circuit somewhere near the Black Sea.

But what about the effect of expansioncontraction on the tarmac caused by the very cold winters? I read somewhere the other day that Daytona International Speedway has only been repaved once, in 1979. Compare that to Michigan International, which seems to need resurfacing every other weekend. The weather is a lot more extreme by the Great Lakes than in Atlantic Florida, even if the Summers are quite similar. Probably wouldn't be so bad by the Black Sea, but I doubt a race that far from Moscow or St. Petersburg would be very economical.

What "old tracks" do they need to go back to? Silverstone, Spa, Monaco, Monza, Hockenheim, Interlagos, Gilles Villeneuve and not-quite-as-old-but-certainly-not-recent circuits like the Hungaroring and Catalunya are still on the calendar. The only ones which have fallen off are Imola (which is just chicanes now, anyway), the A1-Ring (which is in no condition to race, thanks to tree-huggers and NIMBYs), the French race (though Dijon was too short and I'd hardly call Magny-Cours worth returning to) and Watkins Glen (which was deemed unsafe).

I agree with you, strangely. Imola is still brilliant on bikes, but it doesn't really work for F1 in its current configuration. IIRC the Glen has new management, but it's probably not even in the top 5 road courses in America, let alone pushing for a Grand Prix. Most American circuits are too twisty for F1; to be brutally honest I can only imagine Road America, Miller Motorsports Park and Watkins Glen being able to put on a decent show. And when you consider the kind of facilities and nightlife that F1 appears to demand, that whittles the list down to zero.

I'm strangely attracted to the idea of F1 on the Fontana road course though. It's wide, safe, open to redesign, has huge grandstands, and located just outside Los Angeles. California Speedway looks like it needs reinventing, too. Being the track NASCAR fans hate the most must get old after a while. It's also built on the site where they filmed the end of The Terminator.

[johnmhinds]

Remove Turkey, replace with this:

Autódromo Internacional Potrero de Los Funes

[primer]

I think a South Korean grand prix was long overdue.

[BRK]

Of course, no. Algersuari and Pedro are there because there were 35.500 Alonso supporters (450 left for Pedro, 50 for Jaime ) on a testing day, but my point is that Spanish fever for F1 has come to the point that, for the first time in history, there are three Spanish drivers in F1 (maybe 4), and sponsors, like Banco de Santander, are scratching their pockets out. If you knew how passionate people are here about this sport right now, you would accept not 2, but 3, or 4 GP's.

You can't justify having more than one GP just because an entire nation suddenly rediscovered F1-if 'interest' were the only factor you'd have four or five races in the UK,Italy,Germany,Iberia and France,one in Monaco,and that would be our Formula One 'World' Championship. Having multiple grands prix in one country is a silly idea,but that's how Ecclestone works,I guess,or we would've never had Silverstone/Brands Hatch, Imola/Monza, Nuerburgring/Hockenheim, and now the spamfest in the Gulf region.



IMO,something like this would be appropriate and not entirely impractical:

-retain a single grand prix in Italy, Great Britain, France, Germany, Spain, Hungary, Japan, Brazil, Belgium, Canada, Australia and Monaco.
-bring back Portugal, South-Africa, and Argentina.
-Road-America for the USA.
-introduce an Indian GP to cover the Subcontinent, retain the one in Singapore to cover SE Asia, Abu-Dhabi to cover the Gulf/Middle-East.
-introduce a GP in Scandinavia/Russia, retain Shanghai or Korea.


20 races,not terrible or anything...

Edited by BRK, 06 February 2010 - 12:31.

[johnmhinds]

Developing and emerging countries from Eastern Europe, Russia, parts of Asia MAYBE, and definitely a focus on Pacific countries. I think a South Korean grand prix was long overdue.

Meh, maybe if the South Korean track layout wasn't completly awful.

[BunnyK]

Round 1 - Australian GP - Melbourne
Round 2 - Malaysian GP - Sepang
Round 3 - South African GP - Kyalami
Round 4 - Bahrain GP - Sakhir
Round 5 - Turkish GP - Istanbul
Round 6 - Spanish GP - Motorland Aragón
Round 7 - Monaco GP - Monte Carlo
Round 8 - Canadian GP - Montreal
Round 9 - USA GP - Long Beach
Round 10 - Mexican GP - Hermanos Rodriguez
Round 11 - French GP - Le Mans Circuit de la Sarthe
Round 12 - British GP - Silverstone
Round 13 - German GP - Hockenheim
Round 14 - Czech GP - Brno
Round 15 - Belgian GP - Spa-Francorchamps
Round 16 - Italian GP - Monza
Round 17 - Portuguese GP - Portimão
Round 18 - Singapore GP - Marina Bay
Round 19 - Japanese GP - Suzuka
Round 20 - Chinese GP - Macau
Round 21 - Argentinian GP - Potrero de los Funes
Round 22 - Brazilian GP - Interlagos

Great calendar, where do i have to sign?

[UPRC]

A Grand Prix in Finland would have been neat.

[Scotracer]

Why not go where the fans are? Surely that would make the most sense?

[Sakae]

I am thinking that too much travelling does add to the team's existential cost with dubious benefits. It's nice to advertise in emerging markets, but the same can be accomplished without F1 spending a weekend there. I would like to see F1 return to traditional customer base, lower ticket prices, and stay on very few tracks outside of EU. Japan and Brasil are only two appealing to me.

[Augurk]

I am thinking that too much travelling does add to the team's existential cost with dubious benefits. It's nice to advertise in emerging markets, but the same can be accomplished without F1 spending a weekend there. I would like to see F1 return to traditional customer base, lower ticket prices, and stay on very few tracks outside of EU. Japan and Brasil are only two appealing to me.

Which is why FOM covers transport for F1 teams, or am I wrong?

[cheapracer]

On the moon the cars would stall and downforce would be very poor due to lack of air so they would skid a lot.

Oh and the drivers would die except for Schumacher 'cause he's an alien.

[cheapracer]

Why not go where the fans are? Surely that would make the most sense?

Could try but I don't think 26 cars would fit in my TV room.

Bring on the pit girls though!

[stormshadow]

You can't justify having more than one GP just because an entire nation suddenly rediscovered F1-if 'interest' were the only factor you'd have four or five races in the UK,Italy,Germany,Iberia and France,one in Monaco,and that would be our Formula One 'World' Championship. Having multiple grands prix in one country is a silly idea,but that's how Ecclestone works,I guess,or we would've never had Silverstone/Brands Hatch, Imola/Monza, Nuerburgring/Hockenheim, and now the spamfest in the Gulf region.



IMO,something like this would be appropriate and not entirely impractical:

-retain a single grand prix in Italy, Great Britain, France, Germany, Spain, Hungary, Japan, Brazil, Belgium, Canada, Australia and Monaco.
-bring back Portugal, South-Africa, and Argentina.
-Road-America for the USA.
-introduce an Indian GP to cover the Subcontinent, retain the one in Singapore to cover SE Asia, Abu-Dhabi to cover the Gulf/Middle-East.
-introduce a GP in Scandinavia/Russia, retain Shanghai or Korea.


20 races,not terrible or anything...

u need to have Brazil, Russia, India and China on the calender. However there is a sentimental attachment to some 'old' circuits that we need to overcome for F1 to move forward.
It needs to be sensible and practical. For instance u dont wanna have a GP in Dubai when the country technically defaulted on its debt .

[johnmhinds]

u need to have Brazil, Russia, India and China on the calender. However there is a sentimental attachment to some 'old' circuits that we need to overcome for F1 to move forward.
It needs to be sensible and practical. For instance u dont wanna have a GP in Dubai when the country technically defaulted on its debt .

Abu Dhabi isn't the same place as Dubai.

Abu Dhabi is in such great financial shape at the moment that they were able to bail out Dubai.

[stormshadow]

Abu Dhabi isn't the same place as Dubai.

Abu Dhabi is in such great financial shape at the moment that they were able to bail out Dubai.

It was only an example of a place u shouldnt have a GP in. There was talk about a Dubai GP over HERE