256 replies to this topic

[Xaus]

I sense a lot of animosity towards Kubica on these forums. Personally, he's one of my favourite drivers and I think he's definitely up there in terms of talent.

But I think that's of minority opinion on these forums. So how do you rate him?

[V8 Fireworks]

Clearly no worse: Webber, Trulli, Heidfeld level

Quite Possible: Vettel, Hamilton level

The aminosity is those debating the proabilities of the fromer or latter categories, there is no clear evidence either way. The former seems proven, but until Kubica beats Alonso or Hamilton in the same car then the latter category will be an iffy proposition.

[YoungGun]

Much better than Petrov, but not as good as Heidfeld. Though he could be over hyped as a star of the future, but who cares.

[JarnoA]

Clearly no worse: Webber, Trulli, Heidfeld level

Well, Heidfeld beat him 2.5 out of 3.5.

So, he is clearly worse than Heidfeld.

[CaptainJackSparrow]

He's a top driver who never has had a top car, well maybe a semi-top car for half a season in 2008, but give him the machinery and he will deliver.

[FlashMaster]

Well, Heidfeld beat him 2.5 out of 3.5.

So, he is clearly worse than Heidfeld.

I wouldn't go that far because they were evenly matched when we look at the overall stats after three years. I think his QLF speed is better than Heidfeld's but Nick's race speed was better than Kubica's at least in 07 and 09

[iotar]

Thank god for that.

Welcome to the official Robert Kubica bashing thread. Hopefully all diatribes of mentally not so stable experts will be channelled here.

Can't wait for :
- immortal but always handy: but Heidfeld beat him !!!!!
- couldn't even beat Ferrari in clearly superior BMW in 2008.
- car breaker
- would struggle without TC - opinion based on hearing more TC noises than from other drivers
- various puns regarding genetic deficiencies
and my favorite: "from watching onboard camera I can safely say he's not a top driver" or sth like that (no times necessary obviously, for a true expert driving style evaluation is enough).

Voted: don't care.

Good night.

[senna da silva]

Based on his results so far I'd say he's overrated.

[kr964]

Well, Heidfeld beat him 2.5 out of 3.5.
So, he is clearly worse than Heidfeld.

Much worse.
Is this is why Heidfeld is out if the race seat right now and Kubica is the leading driver for one of the best F1 teams ?

[Willow Rosenberg]

Thank god for that.

Welcome to the official Robert Kubica bashing thread. Hopefully all diatribes of mentally not so stable experts will be channelled here.

Can't wait for :
- immortal but always handy: but Heidfeld beat him !!!!!
- couldn't even beat Ferrari in clearly superior BMW in 2008.
- car breaker
- would struggle without TC - opinion based on hearing more TC noises than from other drivers
- various puns regarding genetic deficiencies
and my favorite: "from watching onboard camera I can safely say he's not a top driver" or sth like that (no times necessary obviously, for a true expert driving style evaluation is enough).

Voted: don't care.

Good night.

You forgot to mention how RK was gifted the win in Canada.

[kr964]

I sense a lot of animosity towards Kubica on these forums. Personally, he's one of my favourite drivers and I think he's definitely up there in terms of talent.

But I think that's of minority opinion on these forums. So how do you rate him?

If he really is one your favourite drivers why do you want people to describe him as an "overhyped trash" in your own poll ?

[Sakae]

I didn't vote, because one option is missing; I would choose to vote to-date he is "overhyped", but at the same time I do not want to characterize him as "trash". That call in most cases would be little off for my taste.

[kr964]

I wouldn't go that far because they were evenly matched when we look at the overall stats after three years. I think his QLF speed is better than Heidfeld's but Nick's race speed was better than Kubica's at least in 07 and 09

In 2007 Kubica's race speed was good enough to finish ahead of his team mate in every single race when he did not have any mechanical problems with his car.
Stats show that Kubica was outpointed by Nick by 22 so "statistically" it looks like he was easily beaten by Heidfeld at the end of the season.
Many miss and few acknowledge the fact that Robert had as many as 11 mechanical problems during the season vs only 3 on Nick's side.

BTW, there was also a recent Heidfeld vs Kubica poll...

[Gemini]

I sense a lot of animosity towards Kubica on these forums. Personally, he's one of my favourite drivers and I think he's definitely up there in terms of talent.

But I think that's of minority opinion on these forums. So how do you rate him?

Nothing against you, Xaus, but we had 1001 topics like that in last 3 years here and in my opinion this is one of the reasons why a lot of animosity was cummulated in this forum.

I hope this one won't go as "ugly" as some other dfiscussions in the past. I don't think considering Kubica a talent is a minority on these forums. As I don't think you can have such an opinion about any of the drivers in F1... that they are not the talents The negative voices are usually the one you tend to remember, that's all.

My advice for you here is to cut off 10% most praising ones, 10% hardest bashers and then look at the rest.

[Gemini]

I didn't vote, because one option is missing; I would choose to vote to-date he is "overhyped", but at the same time I do not want to characterize him as "trash". That call in most cases would be little off for my taste.

I see MiPe that you live up to your statement in "I pledge in 2010 season to..." thread

BTW, I also didn't found the appropriate option for me to vote in this particular one.

Edited by Gemini, 06 February 2010 - 04:47.

[Captain Tightpants]

Much better than Petrov

Petrov has done one testing session. Kubica has been racing for three years.

Excellent deductions, genius.

[alecc]

Well, Heidfeld beat him 2.5 out of 3.5.

So, he is clearly worse than Heidfeld.

Well, Kubica have better lap times during this 3 and 1/3 seasons on races both finished, so he is clearly better than Heidfeld
I think team bosses look rather in such statistics than only points.
(you can see the times in the Heidfeld vs Kubica thread here (link))

[Xaus]

If he really is one your favourite drivers why do you want people to describe him as an "overhyped trash" in your own poll ?

Maybe because I'm not a close minded fanboy who respects other peoples opinions of a certain person who really has no bearing on my personal life whatsoever and I'm not going to "rig the poll" or "funnel the answers" into something biased like 'RK is great/good/awesome' only?

So, apparently because he is one of my favourite drivers you're telling me that all the options in the poll should be 'Awesome'?

[Xaus]

And I don't consider there being a difference between 'overhyped' and 'overrated'. Guess I should have stuck with the same wording.

And frankly 'trash' is probably the least offensive word with a negative connotation I've seen thrown around here in regards to drivers.

[rookie]

I rate him, but i can easily imagine him ending up like Alesi....you know, seemingly posessing all the ingredients but never somehow putting it all together.

Whatever you think of his 07 and 09 seasons, it's hard to deny he did great job in 08. at this stage i'll give him the benefit of the doubt last year as it was a dog of a car and he did show flashes and reserve judgement until the end of this year.

[MinT]

Overrated but has his moments - bit like 90% of the grid.

Does "go on" a bit though when the car isnt right.

[Raincoat]

I know ALonso, Hamilton, Massa, Vettel and Buttons strengths I can say I have no idea what Kubica's strengths are, nothing stands out.

[Lord_Shaitan]

Top driver IMO, no doubts about it. With decent car he shows his very high level. Fast enough to match Alonso or Hamilton and more 'cool headed' than other drivers on the grid.

[The Ragged Edge]

There is no doubt Kubica could do a Jenson Button, if the car is fast enough compared to the rest of the field. But IMO I have yet to genuinely see Kubica drag a car where it doesn't belong. While racing against Heidfeld, if both of them are in clear air, one behind the other and on similar fuel loads, neither was capable of driving away from the other. At least when Hamilton and Alonso were paired together, it was close some races, but at other times, both of them were capable of leaving the other in their wake. Kubica hasn't displayed that to me against Heidfeld.

Also Petrov is no superstar, he did put up a few good races in GP2 and at times looked very good, but over all Hulkenberg put him to the sword. If Kubica doesn't destroy Petrov, like Alonso destroyed Grosjean and Piquet, then Kubica doesn't deserve the superstar status his Polish fanclub want to bestow on him.

Edited by The Ragged Edge, 06 February 2010 - 09:22.

[MSf]

Heidfeld was a match for Kubica, but I wouldn't say he was better.

At least when it mattered, when the car was working well, Kubica had the upper-hand. But I'm still not really convinced by Kubica who has still a lot to prove to be rated amongst the best drivers.

[thuGG]

But IMO I have yet to genuinely see Kubica drag a car where it doesn't belong.

Brazil 2009, Australia 2009, Italy 2006, China 2007, Monaco 2008, Europe 2008, Japan 2008. I guess you didn't pay attention.

[Hypnotise]

Brazil 2009, Australia 2009, Italy 2006, China 2007, Monaco 2008, Europe 2008, Japan 2008. I guess you didn't pay attention.

You forgot Malaysia 2008 he did a great and consistent stint,im not a fan of him he is a good driver but slightly overrated

Vettel on the other hand is way overrated

[barteks]

Well, Heidfeld beat him 2.5 out of 3.5.

So, he is clearly worse than Heidfeld.

And that's why Heidfeld's career in F1 is over?

[undersquare]

He seems to have had a dodgy relationship with BMW, I don't know how much of that was Kubi and how much was BMW. Suspect mainly BMW though, not enough aggression in the team to appreciate his attitude. I'm waiting with interest to see how things go at Renault now, but better for him hopefully. He is very critical, very determined, seems a bit rough with the car to be ultra fast, but might not be in a better car I suppose. I'd have liked to see him in the lion's den at McLaren, as it is it's going to be hard to pick his speed out from the car's speed.

[MortenF1]

How on earth do people end up concluding that Heidfeld is the better of the two?? Heidfeld has never had a season like Kubica's '08-season. Kubica was impeccable that year!

[Sarhan]

RK has everything for being WDC as a driver, all he needs is the car.

And about those NH comparisions...

Edited by Sarhan, 06 February 2010 - 11:14.

[The Ragged Edge]

Brazil 2009, Australia 2009, Italy 2006, China 2007, Monaco 2008, Europe 2008, Japan 2008. I guess you didn't pay attention.

Brazil 2009 was impressive(but it is not definitive, if it was car improvement, or Kubica driving).
Australia 2009 was down to tyres in that last stint.
China 2007? Get real.
Italy 2006, was a really impressive drive(and considering it was his first race, even more so.)
Monaco 2008 wasn't bad, but you cannot claim glory, when at that stage of the season the BMW was the 3rd best car(possibly even 2nd best) and compared to Hamiltons drive, it was forgettable.
Europe 2008, started 3rd and finished 3rd WOW! Finished well over half a minute behind 1st and 2nd, plus Raikkonen's engine blew up, plus he was in the 3rd best car.
Japan 2008, again in the 3rd best car. I was expecting him to beat Alonso, but Alonso showed us why he is a great and Kubica not. Kubica had the car to beat Alonso that race, but couldn't do it.


Out of all those drives, Italy 2006 and Brazil 2009 were extremely good drives. I can confess I totally forgot about Monza 2006. Now that was dragging a car to a position it didn't belong. I forgot about that because these kind of drives for Kubica are so few and far between. Alonso's Japan 2008 drive, was dragging a car where it did not belong. Hamilton's Bahrain 2009 drive, was dragging a car where it did not belong. Vettel Monza 2008 drive, was dragging a car where it did not belong. Kubica IMO has done 1 maybe 2 of those drives in his entire career, out of 57 starts. You must not confuse an exciting race Kubica was involved in(because he's involved in a lot of exciting races), with placing a car in a position it has no right to be in.

[velgajski1]

Overrated, but only slightly.

I don't think he is worse than Heidfeld, but he should have beat him consistently for all 3 seasons and then I'd probably rate him as top tier driver. I think that talented younger drivers usually get a lot of hype, but in most cases they don't turn out to be top-tier. Kubica is not that young anymore, doesn't attract interest of top teams and it is very possible that in 5 years he'll be regarded as a mid-field driver.

[Lord_Shaitan]

Brazil 2009 was impressive(but it is not definitive, if it was car improvement, or Kubica driving).
Australia 2009 was down to tyres in that last stint.
China 2007? Get real.
Italy 2006, was a really impressive drive(and considering it was his first race, even more so.)
Monaco 2008 wasn't bad, but you cannot claim glory, when at that stage of the season the BMW was the 3rd best car(possibly even 2nd best) and compared to Hamiltons drive, it was forgettable.
Europe 2008, started 3rd and finished 3rd WOW! Finished well over half a minute behind 1st and 2nd, plus Raikkonen's engine blew up, plus he was in the 3rd best car.
Japan 2008, again in the 3rd best car. I was expecting him to beat Alonso, but Alonso showed us why he is a great and Kubica not. Kubica had the car to beat Alonso that race, but couldn't do it.


Out of all those drives, Italy 2006 and Brazil 2009 were extremely good drives. I can confess I totally forgot about Monza 2006. Now that was dragging a car to a position it didn't belong. I forgot about that because these kind of drives for Kubica are so few and far between. Alonso's Japan 2008 drive, was dragging a car where it did not belong. Hamilton's Bahrain 2009 drive, was dragging a car where it did not belong. Vettel Monza 2008 drive, was dragging a car where it did not belong. Kubica IMO has done 1 maybe 2 of those drives in his entire career, out of 57 starts. You must not confuse an exciting race Kubica was involved in(because he's involved in a lot of exciting races), with placing a car in a position it has no right to be in.

Brazil 2009 He was almost in Webber's pace with reduced engine power from 10th lap as I remember
Monaco 2008 Drive without any mistake, look at Hamilton, Massa ...
Europe 2008 Bmw has been already off the pace; 3rd place was really impressive and surprising
Japan 2008 Bmw wasn't 3rd best car, behind Renault and Toyota probably

[thuGG]

China 2007? Get real.

He was going for the win in 3rd best car, if it's not impressive then I don't know what is.

Italy 2006, was a really impressive drive(and considering it was his first race, even more so.)

It was his 3rd race.

Monaco 2008 wasn't bad, but you cannot claim glory, when at that stage of the season the BMW was the 3rd best car(possibly even 2nd best) and compared to Hamiltons drive, it was forgettable.

3rd best car, 2nd position, should be max 5th (basing on 3rd best car) so he "gained" 3 positions.

Europe 2008, started 3rd and finished 3rd WOW! Finished well over half a minute behind 1st and 2nd, plus Raikkonen's engine blew up, plus he was in the 3rd best car.

First he had to qualify 3rd, not easy when you have 3rd best car. I guess that qualy effort doesn't mean anything for you.

Japan 2008, again in the 3rd best car. I was expecting him to beat Alonso, but Alonso showed us why he is a great and Kubica not. Kubica had the car to beat Alonso that race, but couldn't do it.

In Japan it was already 4th best car, Renault was clearly faster starting from Singapore GP (check out how well Piquet did in Japan). Finished 2nd, great defensive driving against Kimi in much faster car.


Basing on your opinions, practically every fantastic drive from every driver could be marginalized and dragged down.

Edited by thuGG, 06 February 2010 - 11:39.

[wingwalker]

<jumps out of the window>

[MadYarpen]

i sense...



incoming!


//As for Kubica I rate him very high, IMO he has everything what it takes to win WDC, just give him a decent car.
*runs away*

[wingwalker]

Funny, other scan of this very picture is my wallpaper.

[Marbles]

I'm a Kubica fan, but I'll concede that it's still not clear where he slots into the driver hierarchy. After all, we have yet to see him in a truly top flight car and it would seem that his window is quickly closing.

[PompousJester]

Kubica bashers incoming

[Bishy]

Clearly no worse: Webber, Trulli, Heidfeld level

Quite Possible: Vettel, Hamilton level

The aminosity is those debating the proabilities of the fromer or latter categories, there is no clear evidence either way. The former seems proven, but until Kubica beats Alonso or Hamilton in the same car then the latter category will be an iffy proposition.

Talking about overrated - pray tell what Vettel has achieved to date to warrant being mentioned in the same breath as the 2008 World Champ?

On-topic Kuby just like Vettel is overrated, they need to do more to warrant the hype that surrounds them imo.

[skipper]

Just give him a good car, and you will see...

[cheapracer]

He's a top driver who never has had a top car, well maybe a semi-top car for half a season in 2008, but give him the machinery and he will deliver.

Who says he hasn't had a top car? The BMW has been very fast often and what happened? What about the apparent lack of development through the years, tell me the driver isn't a key part of that.

[Sarhan]

It often happens that some forumer rate a driver without following his career closely - this is normal.
Just few posts up i read that someone of you guys just doesn't know what Kubicas strenghts are. This is because you didn't follow him as you follow your fav drivers.
The same goes with the NK/RK comparision, "Nick had more points so he got the upper hand" stuff. You just cant get the right picture without digging a bit deeper than just the points.

In F1 the spectacular is to remember by the crowd. Many drivers do an amazing job racing in the midfield - where their car belong - and the glory goes for those on the podium. This is just how it goes..

Give Kubica a race winning car and then it will be easier to see all that his supporters already know.

[cheapracer]

Talking about overrated - pray tell what Vettel has achieved to date to warrant being mentioned in the same breath as the 2008 World Champ?

A young man who has shown outstanding speed actually and the Red Bull went forward through the year so either Webber or Vettle was giving good input to the engineers and or going fast enough to show the faults.

[Sarhan]

A young man who has shown outstanding speed actually and the Red Bull went forward through the year so either Webber or Vettle was giving good input to the engineers and or going fast enough to show the faults.

Since you know about his input to the team you might be interested that his name is Vettel.

[cheapracer]

Give Kubica a race winning car and then it will be easier to see all that his supporters already know.

Nonsense, the BMW clearly had the speed often to be a race winner - I strongly suggest you check out all of the qualifying/lap times for all races of Kubica's.

[thuGG]

Who says he hasn't had a top car? The BMW has been very fast often and what happened?

And he took one win, three second places and three third places. 4th in the general classification (matched Kimi in points, or the other way around actually).

What about the apparent lack of development through the years, tell me the driver isn't a key part of that.

So you say that Alonso lost his developement skills in 2008 and 2009? Why not go further, Schumacher had a brain fade during 2005, Kimi and Massa forgot how to develop a car in 2009, Hamilton also must have taken a brake in winter testing 2009.

Nonsense, the BMW clearly had the speed often to be a race winner - I strongly suggest you check out all of the qualifying/lap times for all races of Kubica's.

I think you should look at the lap times more carefully, here is the link: http://www.f1matrix...._eng/index.html

Edited by thuGG, 06 February 2010 - 12:36.

[cheapracer]

Since you know about his input to the team you might be interested that his name is Vettel.

Says the man who's written English is shocking.

Yes, so I spelt his name wrong so that immediately nullifies the guts of the post

[Rob]

Says the man who's written English is shocking.

Oops!