18 replies to this topic

[Michael Smart]

Hermanos da Silva Ramos is known for his F1 drives for Gordini in the 50's but did he ever drive a Ferrari F1 car ?.

[Felix Muelas]

It might also be an excellent ocassion to see if we can clarify the question of the name of this gentleman.
I explain myself :
Hermanos means Brothers
Hermano means Brother
and Hernando is an accepted ans widely spread version of Fernando.
I might (as usually) be wrong with my assumptions, but it makes some sense to me that the name should be something more on the line of Hernando, with a (weird) chance on Hermano. But Hermanos? It doesn´t make a lot of sense to me!
Anybody out there?

Felix

[Felix Muelas]

AH! OK, I forgot to mention. Here, in Spain, we nickname "Nano" the "Fernandos" (and logically the Hernandos too...) so maybe that´s another point to put into the equation (but maybe it´s a misleading statement, and that´s why I think he is probably called Hernando)

Felix

[fines]

Felix, I think you're right! I always wondered about the "Hermanos" name, speaking a little Spanish myself (un pequeño poco...). But I always accepted "Nando" as the short form of Hernando/Fernando. So maybe it's Hermano... ?

BTW, in the Temporada thread we've learned about one Hélio Ramos, so that's maybe the brother which would make it the "Hermanos da Silva Ramos"?

[Marcor]

Da Silva Ramos was born on December 7, 1925. His mother was French and his father Brazilian.

I first saw his name in the book "Gordini, un sorcier, une équpe" when he drove a Gordini for the first time at "La Coupe du Salon 1954 Monthléry", October 10. He was called Hermano-Juan Da Silva Ramos and was known as "Nano" Da Silva Ramos.

He was the last driver entered in a F1 race for Gordini (Napoli GP, 27 April 1957, Gordini T16-32, retired)

He finished second in the F2 GP de Pau, in a Cooper.

In 1959, he drove the Maserati 250F-2522, finishing fourth in the BARC 200 at Aintree on April 18.

He also drove an Aston Martin whe he was very young...

[sat]

I have also seen Hermano Joao (a with ~) da S.R., he was an Brasilian so its in portugal?

[Chico Landi]

Sorry to bring up this one year old thread, but I'm trying to gather some info about the life of this man and maybe someone can help me.

1) I've found an Internet bookshop who sells the two known books about the Gordini: "Les Gordini" (Robert Jarraud) and "Gordini: un sorcier, une équipe" (Christian Huet). Both have the same price and they are astonishing expensive. If I decide to buy one (and have a problem with my wife), which you think it's better?

2) I've been following with interest the Toine's thread about the Pilette's book.
http://www.atlasf1.c...&threadid=31185
So, Toine, can you tell me if in André's chapter there is some words about Silva Ramos (they've raced together for Gordini in some races)?

3) Does anyone know someone or something (like a Gordini veteran club or something similar) that may lead me to an address or/and phone number of Silva Ramos, which presumibly is live and well living in France?

Thanks!


Regarding his name, though "Hernando" is the most acceptable version, personally I believe his real name should be Hermano Joao. Hermano is a not so common but a normal name in portuguese (there's a famous journalist called Hermano Henning), though in spanish it means 'brother'.
Marc quotes one of the Gordini's book with the name Hermano-Juan, but it makes no sense if his father is brazilian - it's a very weird spanish and portuguese name mixture! I know there are a lot of spanish immigrants in Brazil and maybe his father (or grandfather) is one of them, but the family name "Da Silva" is portuguese for sure.

[FEV]

Hello Chico !
Nano is part of "L'Amicale Facel Véga" which is my best guess if you want to get in touch with him. Here where to reach them :
Bruno DAVID 2, Rue d'Auteuil-75016 Paris - Tél/Fax : 01.45.20.92.17.

[alessandro silva]

Chico,
Huet's book is well worth its price. It is excellent. The other no, in my opinion.

[Chico Landi]

FEV,

Thank you SO MUCH for your hint over messieur David. I've just called him and he's off in a journey, but I'll be able to reach him next week and hopefully he may help me. Before that, could you tell me what kind of association is this "L'Amicale Facel Véga"? By the way, their phone number changed, if you want to update: 01 40 93 78 80.


Alessandro,

Thanks for your opinion. I'll try to save some money and buy the Huet's book (or maybe wait until I go to Paris, because I believe I may find cheaper prices there).

[Vitesse2]

Chico: FEV is actually away at the moment (spending Christmas/New Year on the Riviera!! ), but I would guess it's some sort of fan club or owners club for Facel Vega sports cars. O/T - the Nobel Prize-winning novelist Albert Camus was killed in a road accident while driving a Facel Vega

[Chico Landi]

So, Facel Véga is a CAR!!! This I didn't knew! Thanks Vitesse and hope FEV is having a good time at La Rivière...

I was doing a quick compilation of his sportscars results at Martin Krejci's website:
UNKNOWN CAR
23/04/1954, Montlhéry, Da Silva Ramos 2nd
ASTON MARTIN
13/06/1954, 24 H de Le Mans, 27 Da Silva Ramos/Colas DNF
GORDINIs
27/02/1955, Circuit d'Agadir 12 Da Silva Ramos 5th
13/03/1955, GP de Dakar Da Silva Ramos 6th
27/03/1955, Coupe de Vitesse de l'USA 16 Da Silva Ramos 1st
17/04/1955, Coupe de Paris 48 Da Silva Ramos 8th
15/05/1955, 24 Heures de Paris 2 Da Silva Ramos (Bol d'Or) /Pollet 4th
12/06/1955, 24 H du Mans, 30 Da Silva Ramos /Pollet DNF
06/11/1955, GP du Venezuela Da Silva Ramos /Lucas NP
26/02/1956, Circuit d'Agadir Da Silva Ramos 5th
11/03/1956, GP de Dakar Da Silva Ramos DNF
22/04/1956, Circuit de Tours 231 Da Silva Ramos 1st
29/04/1956, Prix de Paris 56 Da Silva Ramos 9th
10/06/1956, 1000 km de Paris 28 Da Silva Ramos /Guelfi DNF
24/06/1956, GP Supercortemaggiore 35 Da Silva Ramos /Manzon 6th
30/06 et 01/07/1956, 12 Heures de Reims 12 Da Silva Ramos /Bayol 7th
08/07/1956, GP de Rouen Sport 44 Da Silva Ramos 16th
29/07/1956, 24 H du Mans, 16 Da Silva Ramos /Guelfi DNF
30/09/1956, GP Shell - Imola 14 Da Silva Ramos 6th
07/10/1956, Coupe du Salon lO Da Silva Ramos DNF
04/11/1956, GP du Venezuela a Caracas Da Silva Ramos DNF
JAGUAR
22/09/1957, VI Tour de France Da Silva Ramos Not among first six
FERRARI 250 GT (0749)
1958: Sold to N. Da Silva Ramos. Dark green with yellow stripe.
7/4: Pau 3 Hours: DNF (crash). Da Silva.
18/5: Spa GP: 1st in GT. Da Silva.
6/7: Rheims 12 Hours: 7th OA. Da Silva/P. Hill.
27/7: Auvergne 3 Hours: 5th OA, 4th in GT. Da Silva.
14-21/9: Tour de France: 3rd OA. Race #162. Estager/ Da Silva Ramos.
FERRARI 250 TR (Scuderia Ferrari)
21/06/59, 24 H du Le Mans, Da Silva Ramos/Allison (DNF)
JAGUAR MK2
??/??/59, Tour de France, Da Silva Ramos/Estager 1st Tourisme

What brought my attention is that, though he has dual nationality, he painted his Ferrari 250GT in green and yellow, brazilian national colours. Also, at Krejci's site, he's always quoted as "Hermano" and never as "Hernando" (neither "Hermanos").

So, the answer from the original question of this topic is: as far as I know, he never drove a Ferrari F1 car. But he made 1 sportscars race for the Scuderia (Le Mans 59), and maybe he could have practiced with one at that time.

By the way, can someone keen to sportscar races tell me what kind of race is this "Tour de France". Is it like the "Mille Miglia" (road race with drivers starting separate)???

[David McKinney]

The Tour de France was a rally. It always attracted racing types because it comprised a series of tests at racing circuits and hillclimb venues linked by comparatively easy navigational sections. It's still held as a retrospective event (and very popular too)

[Roger Clark]

Originally posted by Chico Landi

UNKNOWN CAR
23/04/1954, Montlhéry, Da Silva Ramos 2nd

The car was an Aston-Martin, a 2.9 litre engined DB2. Presumably the same car he droce at Le Mans. I believe the date was 25/4/54

[Chico Landi]

Many thanks David and Roger!

[Chico Landi]

Thanks to FEV's wonderful hint and the very helpful messieur David Bruno, I could finally reach Da Silva Ramos and just spoke with him on the phone.

VERY, very nice man (he's 76 now and living in Biarritz), he brought many nice memories from racing in the 50's. One of them I think that may bring special interest to the TNF members:

He raced with Cliff Allison for the Scuderia Ferrari at Le Mans 1959 and set the fastest time at the practice. At the beggining of the race, Ramos's car was faster than Behra's car (also Ferrari) at the long straight. When the french came to the pits, he was very angry about that and had a big discussion with Ferrari's manager Tavoni (he thought Tavoni deliberated had given Ramos the best engine), and he was fired. According to "Nano", that was the reason why Behra was driving so wild in the AVUS race in which he had his fatal accident. He had a Porsche and wanted so badly to beat Ferrari that may have driven too hard and crashed.
Maybe this is not new for most of you, but it was for me...

Also, his real name is HERMANO (now 100% sure) Joao da Silva Ramos. And the Ferrari GT 250 he bought in 1958 was actually painted in Blue and Red (the colours of his mother's family, Lavalade), but he had a brazilian flag painted on the side.

About this special race:
??/10/1960 – GP do Rio de Janeiro – Guanabara
1) Mário Araújo Cabral (POR/Maserati 3000cc) – 35 voltas em 1h08m43s3
2) Fernando da Silva Ramos (Porsche 1500cc) – 35 voltas em 1h09m28s9
3) Daniel Magalhães (POR/Porsche 1500cc)
4) Henrique Casini (Maserati 4500cc)
5) Luis Milan (Ferrari 5000cc)
6) Francis Francis (Lotus Elite)
7) Annie Soisbault (BEL/Porsche 1600cc)
Retirements:
Luciano della Porta (Ferrari 250TR)
David Piper (Lotus)

He was the driver who was in 2nd place, so is not Fernando but Hermano (as we suspected, David). It was his last race before retiring.

What else? He was a very close friend of Alfonso de Portago and did not race for a few months after the spaniard's death in 1957. He told me his wife was pregnant at that time and she was so shocked that he decided to stay away from races until his son was born.

Finally, he told me that this year's Monaco Historic Race (18-19 May) will be the festivities of 40 years of the Ex-GP racers Club (president is Toulo de Graffenried) and many names of that period will be gathered there. I will do my best to be there too...

FEV, neverending "merci beaucoups" for you!!!

[FEV]

Your welcome Chico ! As Richard told you, I went back home for holidays just after having post the "L'Amicale Facel Vega" link, so sorry for not answering you sooner ! About this great french make, I'd like to add that its founder Jean Daninos died late in 2001. Sadly his death wasn't much covered by the french press. His cars were incredibly beautiful, powerful, modern but also quite unsafe.
Great to hear about Hermano. Lucky you to have been able to talk to him ! Thanks for the Behra story, it wasn't clear to me why Behra and Tavoni had fight (or I should say why did Behra hit Tavoni !) at Le Mans in 1959.
The celebration of the 40th anniversary of the ex-Grand Prix drivers association at the 2001 Grand Prix Historique de Monaco is a wonderful news I hope you can get there Chico, for I should be doing the live comments of the event like I did for the 2000 edition (and hopefully I will again be doing them with Jabby Crombac !!) ! And I hope a lot of you TNFers can come too !
Cheers
Frank

[David McKinney]

I'll be there

Well done on contacting your man, Chico, and congratulations on thinking to ask about his name

But....

Originally posted by Chico Landi
:He had a Porsche and wanted so badly to beat Ferrari that may have driven too hard and crashed.

The fatal Avus race was a 1500 one, with no Ferraris.

[Chico Landi]

Originally posted by David McKinney
The fatal Avus race was a 1500 one, with no Ferraris.

I thought about this possibility David. The man was quite lucid, but he already mixed one or two dates when we've talked, so I believe something of what he said shouldn't be 100% correct. Anyway, we'll never know Behra's state of mind at the AVUS race to connect it with his Ferrari problems...

By the way, I want to say to Alessandro that I've bought the book "Gordini, un sourcier une èquipe" and it's pretty damn good!!! Highly recommended to anyone interested of race in the 50's, though the price is really extorsive.