8 replies to this topic

[ZippyD]

I was watching an excellent show that I taped earlier in the day on Speed Vision last night before the #@$#%$#^% ing tape went south(no offense to the southern hemisphere group). It was the story of Jack Brabahm. Great shots of late 50s early 60s GPs in color. Recent interviews with Sir Jack himself, Denny Hulme, Jack Cooper, John Surtees.
At one point in the show there is a discussion about bringing Denny Hulme into the Cooper team. The voice-over guy says something to the effect that bringing in a person from New Zealand would be the equivalent of inviting your "mortal enemy" to join. I thought you boys down under got along?

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"I want to tell you something, not about the others but about myself."
"When I saw something like that I used to go to pieces."
"But I'm older now. When I see something really terrible I put my foot down. HARD! Because I know the other person is lifting his."
"What a terrible way to win."
"Cher mademoiselle, there is no terrible way to win. There is only winning."

[Ray Bell]

Can't understand that... Denny wasn't there until 1961 or 1962, Jack left Cooper at the end of 61, and that was well known prior to that happening (even drove a Lotus!).
If you could only see what's happening in our top open wheeler formula at the moment you'd think it was the war of the nations - and the rich Kiwi kids are winning!
Generally we do get along very well, there's even going to be a round of the Australian Touring Car Championship in the land of the long white cloud next year.
What's more, we adopted Jim Richards completely (had to, he's lived here for 25 years)... and we just love to hear their accent.
But then again, in yacht racing, when the America's Cup race was on in Perth in the eighties there was a lot of bickering... one story went (and you must remember that thousands of Kiwis come to live in Australia every month) that "every time a Kiwi migrates to Australia it raises the average level of intelligence in both countries."

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Life and love are mixed with pain...

[Dennis David]

What about NZ and their smaller Harbour Bridge, etc.

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Regards,

Dennis David
Grand Prix History

Life is racing, the rest is waiting

[Falcadore]

There is quite a rivalry between Australian and New Zealand. Two very similar countries which are partially isolated from their immediate region due to politics, culture, and it must be said, race. The two countries have grown up together as brothers more or less, each with their own distinctive problems and attitude, and yet more similar than any other two nations. New Zealand has always used it's 'big brother' as a bench mark, while Australia has pegged itself more against the UK or the US.

In addition to this weekend being the easter weekend down this way it's also ANZAC Day weekend. April 25 1914 a force of approximately 75,000 troops landed on the Gallipoli Peninsula in Turkey, of which just under half were the Australian and New Zealand Army Corps. The ANZAC forces landed at what is now known as Anzac Cove, while the mostly British remainder of forces landed further south of the Peninsula tip. While ANZAC troops gained a reputation for skill and bravery they were never able to penetrate more than 2 kilometers from their beachhead, or from the British beachhead to the south. ( months later the force was withdrawn having achieved virtually nothing. ANZAC Day today is a touchstone for both nations.

Today on the sporting field no fiercer battle can be found than that of an Australia vs New Zealand clash, be it Rugby Union, Cricket, Netball, Rugby League or elsewhere. At Olympic level Australia and New Zealand have won more gold medals per head of population than any other nation by a considerable margin. And the two nations have produced such names as Tony Gaze, Jack Brabham, Bruce McLaren, Denny Hulme, Tim Schenken, Frank Gardner, Chris Amon, Paul Hawkins, Howden Ganley, Vern Schuppan, Alan Jones, Geoff Brabham, David Brabham and Paul Radisich. And today Mark Webber, Scott Dixon, Jason Bright, Marcus Ambrose, Andrej Pavicevic & James Courtney (and David Besnard?) battle at the front of their respective championships, on their way to Formula One.

That would probably be Bruce McLaren joining Cooper I'd think, although that occured in 1959, before Jack Brabham was big.

Jim Richards may have been adopted but he and his wife (whose name escapes me) did return to New Zealand for the birth of Steven Richards. I'm not sure of Steven's brother and sister though. The Australian Touring Car Championship is flooded with kiwis, Paul Radisich, Steven Richards, Greg Murphy, Craig Baird, even John Faulkner truth be told. In the top open wheeler category Formula Holden is the same, Simon Wills, Matthew Halliday, and Chris Staff battle the locals. And of course Possum Bourne in the forrests of the Australian Rally Championship.

It's a healthy rivalry but a rivalry non-the-less.

[Ray Bell]

In the 60s the biggest difference between Australia and NZ was that there was more Kiwis prepared to spend their bags of gold on racing... and more Australians interested in putting down their shillings to watch.
Today there are more Australians interested in matching the spending of the Kiwis, and still more Australians overall to provide the income for the racing to go on.
NZ seems to have a greater range of haves and have nots, and this provided a handful of wealthy racers ... a situation not so relevant today with sponsorships available.
But you must be kidding about Faulkner? Isn't he the guy who raced a Capri in the seventies, and has lived in Melbourne for all of that period? He's as Australian as Richards, perhaps more so.
That's the real point, Kiwis come to live here and adopt Australia as their homeland (it used to be to get a better road car than a Hillman Minx, but that's changed a little) because of its more rational economy and greater opportunities.
Where the rivalry comes in is at the job interviewing stage...
True, drunken footballers might have a brawl about the differences.. cricketers might throw beercans at each other, and the wise words of the yachtsmen were sharp indeed... but beneath the skin, and certainly in motor racing, they are one of a kind.

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Life and love are mixed with pain...

[ZippyD]

I stand corrected. It was Bruce McLaren.

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"I want to tell you something, not about the others but about myself."
"When I saw something like that I used to go to pieces."
"But I'm older now. When I see something really terrible I put my foot down. HARD! Because I know the other person is lifting his."
"What a terrible way to win."
"Cher mademoiselle, there is no terrible way to win. There is only winning."

[Alfisti]

New Zealanders hate us because as hard as they try we always belt them at everything...well apart from yacht racing but who cares??? There is a VERY strong rivaly like two brothers who are always fighting but if someone else tries to pick on one of them the other leaps to their defence. Oz is the big brother who is good at everything whilst NZ is little snotty nosed brother who tries to tag along to everything.

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www.geocities.com/psi_21/index.html

[KzKiwi]

"Snotty Nosed" and "hate"...tut,tut, you sound a little frustated Alfisti.

Yes we are a small nation, with a total population about the size of Sydney. As a result there is an intensity in most things that we do on the sporting front - as a way of saying to the rest of the world that we can stand on our own two feet.

Sadly though in todays sporting climate natural talent is not enough, and marketing and training opportunities are just as important. In comparision to Australia this is an area that NZers are lacking in due to such things as Government policies and direction,etc.

Due to the above two areas this is why Kiwis migrate overseas, usually to Ozzie. If we succeed we are termed 'Australians', examples of this being in the music and movie industry as well as the racing drivers previously mentioned.

At least it is good to see Scott Dixon and Jason Bright flying the ANZAC flag high in the latest round of the Indy lights series in America.

And you know I always thought that it was you Australians that had the weird accent!

[Ray Bell]

In my home there is frequently to be heard a wierd accent - as my wife and I try to emulate that of the Kiwis, which we both love. It's that economy of vowel sounds that gets us - you know, leaving out the vowel where there's supposed to be an 'i', reducing each 'e' to an 'i', an 'a' to an 'e'... we have a lot of fun with that.
Of course, we have a hard time with the other part of it, like trying to put an 'r' into words like 'dance'...
So hard to remember all the rules...

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Life and love are mixed with pain...