99 replies to this topic

[stuckinsecond]

I'm sorry if another thread occurs - I searched but couldn't find. Who thinks the Hulk can match, or maybe even beat, his team mate Rubens?

[Yorkie]

I think he can

[Tufty]

I think he can

[maccaFTW]

Certainly, he can.

I think Hulk is on the Hamilton/Vettel level of talent.

[The Ragged Edge]

Certainly, he can.

I think Hulk is on the Hamilton/Vettel level of talent.

Rubens will deal with the HULK and I'll remind you of this later. Hulkenberg is good, but over rated.

[RichardF1fan]

No I don't think he can. He may be incredibly talented but I think Rubens experience will win out in the end. Rubens has a lot of talent backed with years driving an F1 car. Once he'd sorted out his brakes last season he was pretty impressive.

Anyway, us oldies have to stick together!

[Yorkie]

Rubens will deal with the HULK and I'll remind you of this later. Hulkenberg is good, but over rated.

Champion in A1, F3 Euro-series and GP2, quite a resume

[craftverk]

I expect the Hulk to come out on top, for me he is the true German heir to Schumi and I expect great things to come from him.

[roadie]

I think it will be extremely tough for a rookie, despite how talented The Hulk is, to beat Ruebens over a season if he is comfortable in the car. As a previous poster has mentioned, once Ruebens got the brakes in the Brawn sorted last year, he was very quick.

I think it is a great driver pairing for Williams, and I hope they can work together to get some decent results for the team this year.

[The Ragged Edge]

Champion in A1, F3 Euro-series and GP2, quite a resume

I followed him in A1, where he looked imperious. When he did the 2007 Euro F3 series, he lost out to Grosjean and Sébastien Buemi. Grosjean was in the same team, with the same chassis and engine, so there can be no excuses. No doubt he is fast, but special? If he dispatches Rubens, I'll sit up and take notice. As of now I'll say Rubens will have him covered.

[Lights]

Hulkenberg won't be the first to fail in F1 with excellent pre-F1 records, but I doubt he will. He's ready for F1. To beat Rubens will be tough though. Perhaps depending on Rubens' motivation.

[Dispenser89]

I reckon he could. He might struggle early on against him, but by the end of the season, i can see him beating Rubens in the races as he gets more comfortable in a F1 car.

[noikeee]

I followed him in A1, where he looked imperious. When he did the 2007 Euro F3 series, he lost out to Grosjean and Sébastien Buemi. Grosjean was in the same team, with the same chassis and engine, so there can be no excuses.

That's pretty normal for a debut season in F3. You could as well say Hamilton lost to the likes of Jamie Green and Nicolas Lapierre.

By the time Hulk got to meet Grosjean again in GP2, he proved throughout the season he was a more complete driver - much to my annoyance as I was more of a fan of Grosjean. It got to the point that a lot of people got carried away and started saying Hulk is the new Hamilton. I don't think he is that good but he's definitely talented and should establish himself as a top 10 F1 driver. What I expect from him this season is to start beating Rubens from mid-season onwards.

[Sakae]

Rubens will deal with the HULK and I'll remind you of this later. Hulkenberg is good, but over rated.

Who has overrated him? Insofar he is quiet, and let results speak on his behalf. All what I can hope is that he will stay modest, but that he shall extract all what is there in the car. Maybe he gets also lucky and it will add up to 110%. But overrated? Prove it.

Edited by MiPe, 01 March 2010 - 15:29.

[Yorkie]

I followed him in A1, where he looked imperious. When he did the 2007 Euro F3 series, he lost out to Grosjean and Sébastien Buemi. Grosjean was in the same team, with the same chassis and engine, so there can be no excuses. No doubt he is fast, but special? If he dispatches Rubens, I'll sit up and take notice. As of now I'll say Rubens will have him covered.

They were both in their second seasons of the F3 Euroseries though, look how well they did in their rookie seasons. The Hulk dominated rookie Bianchi the year after whilst Bianchi destroyed the field the year after that.

The most telling point is the Hulk did better than both Buemi and Grosjean in GP2

[Redstorm]

Am I completely mistaken or wasn't Grosean ahead when he left for Renault? Rebens will win out this year. I think Frank will let him lead development and try to keep him happy. Use the experience to develop the next young un.

[robracer]

I expect Nico to put Rubens to bed.

[Seanspeed]

They were both in their second seasons of the F3 Euroseries though, look how well they did in their rookie seasons. The Hulk dominated rookie Bianchi the year after whilst Bianchi destroyed the field the year after that.

The most telling point is the Hulk did better than both Buemi and Grosjean in GP2

The Buemi comparison is unfair, because he was certainly not in one of the best teams.

And with Grosjean, I think the fact that he looked stronger at Barwa Addax than he did in ART shows exactly how 'wishy washy' things can be in that series.

I think Hulkenberg has good potential(enough to beat Barrichello), but there's no telling if he'll fulfill that potential or not. He may be a complete flop or he may be sensational. Never can tell.

[noikeee]

Am I completely mistaken or wasn't Grosean ahead when he left for Renault?

Just checked on Forix, the Hulk overtook him in the standings 3 races before.

[phil1993]

I think they'll be matched in qualifying but earlier on Rubens will have the advantage but after 5-6 races Hulkenberg will start to match Rubens and be better than him and I wouldn't be surprised to see him nab a podium

[Zdeus]

I expect Nico to put Rubens to bed.

+1

Edited by Ravindra Nagpurkar, 01 March 2010 - 18:09.

[seltaeb]

Much of this largely depends on how Nico H can perform at the F1 level. I think he will do very well, indeed, and to be honest, I think both he and Rubens can have a great year. The FW32 looks pretty strong so far. It's too early to predict how it'll fare in the first round of qualifying in 10 short days, but I think Williams has chosen a perfect driver's lineup that combines youth and experience.

Rubens is in a great place, mentally, and I think he will perform well in the mentor role. His setup skills and overall experience should help Williams in the development process throughout the season. I hope to see Williams finish in the Top 4 of the WCC this year just to spite all the journalists who are already predicting it's a Ferrari/Red Bull/McLaren/Mercedes title fight.

I'd love to see Rubens take a win for Williams at Monaco.

[kosmic33]

Rubens will deal with the HULK and I'll remind you of this later. Hulkenberg is good, but over rated.

wont reminding us later make you a bit silly when hulk outpaces him?

[Yorkie]

The Buemi comparison is unfair, because he was certainly not in one of the best teams.

And with Grosjean, I think the fact that he looked stronger at Barwa Addax than he did in ART shows exactly how 'wishy washy' things can be in that series.

I think Hulkenberg has good potential(enough to beat Barrichello), but there's no telling if he'll fulfill that potential or not. He may be a complete flop or he may be sensational. Never can tell.

But even in the Barwa car the Hulk was starting to beat him before he left for F1

[Bunchies]

Champion in A1, F3 Euro-series and GP2, quite a resume

I'm watching his GP2 Asia races right now, and a certain kobayashi is making him look quite ordinary. I think he and Rubens will be close.

[noikeee]

I'm watching his GP2 Asia races right now, and a certain kobayashi is making him look quite ordinary. I think he and Rubens will be close.

How so? Hulk only entered GP2 Asia mid-season and only did 2 race weekends, Kobayashi did the whole championship. On the first race Hulk entered (his first GP2 race ever, Koba had been driving GP2 cars for a year) he came 4th, Koba won. Then in the other 3 races Hulk always finished ahead of him, winning one of them.

[Yorkie]

I'm watching his GP2 Asia races right now, and a certain kobayashi is making him look quite ordinary. I think he and Rubens will be close.

I believe Kobayashi already had a years experience of GP2, the Hulk wasnt winning straight away in the main series either

[noikeee]

Another fun fact: Hulkenberg set the fastest qualifying time for both of those race weekends.

[Yorkie]

How so? Hulk only entered GP2 Asia mid-season and only did 2 race weekends, Kobayashi did the whole championship. On the first race Hulk entered (his first GP2 race ever, Koba had been driving GP2 cars for a year) he came 4th, Koba won. Then in the other 3 races Hulk always finished ahead of him, winning one of them.

That being the case, poor post by bunchies

[Bunchies]

I believe Kobayashi already had a years experience of GP2, the Hulk wasnt winning straight away in the main series either

True, and I don't think Hulkenberg drove in all of the races either. But I was speaking purely based on how they dealt with each other wheel to wheel.

[Bunchies]

That being the case, poor post by bunchies

Poor post? That's a little judgmental. I gave an opinion based on what I actually saw them doing on track.

edit: And i feel it's a little ironic to label a post as 'poor' when your own post essentially serves as an internet "i told you so."

Edited by Bunchies, 01 March 2010 - 21:14.

[Bunchies]

How so? Hulk only entered GP2 Asia mid-season and only did 2 race weekends, Kobayashi did the whole championship. On the first race Hulk entered (his first GP2 race ever, Koba had been driving GP2 cars for a year) he came 4th, Koba won. Then in the other 3 races Hulk always finished ahead of him, winning one of them.

Ok. From what I know, the team also plays a part in the success of GP2 drivers. Does driving for ART give any advantage over driving for DAMS?

Anyway, I'm not interested in arguing over how they should be ranked based on their past results. This was based on what I saw with my own eyes, nothing more, nothing less.

[Seanspeed]

But even in the Barwa car the Hulk was starting to beat him before he left for F1

You cant win every race, but granted, Grosjean was making some mistakes those last few GP2 races.

I also think Hulkenberg and ART 'clicked' a bit better than they and Grosjean did(or else I dont think he would have left). This 'clicking' seems to be quite important in that series, as you see guys like Luca Filippi look completely useless at a team like ART, but then becomes a front-runner in another.

Was Hulkenberg more impressive overall? Yea, in the big picture, he was. He'd probably be the safer bet for a team and all, I just dont think we saw quite enough to say for sure he's better than 'whoever'.

[Redstorm]

It is amazing how quickly all seem to want the newbies to progress at. Everyone seems to think that if drivers are not podium contenders from the get go that they are a bust. It used to take years for a driver to mature. How soon we forget how special it was to see Hammy do what he did? Vettel was second and by such a close margin. Yet I have seen way too many already say he is overrated! If Kobi doesn't win soon he is a bust. Same with the Hulk. These are just kids!!!

Hulk is facing the most experienced driver EVER in F1. Rebens just came off his best year in a long time. He seems to have the fire back. He is no grand master Schui but I see no reason why he will be beat this year. From what I've heard of Hulk he is a smart kid. He was integrating himself in the team already last year. I fully believe he will learn from Gramps this year. Rebens will win out more than not but the Hulk will have his days too.

There has never been a grid where each and every newbie was the "it" guy. There never will be. Some will strike fast, others will take some time. I think quite a few need to rethink their expectations.

[Willy_Wonka]

I think rubens has the edge in this, i mean for hecks sake, its the kids first season in a mid level team.
He will find it hard against an old hand like rubens, and he can learn a lot from him along the way.

[Seanspeed]

It is amazing how quickly all seem to want the newbies to progress at. Everyone seems to think that if drivers are not podium contenders from the get go that they are a bust. It used to take years for a driver to mature. How soon we forget how special it was to see Hammy do what he did? Vettel was second and by such a close margin. Yet I have seen way too many already say he is overrated! If Kobi doesn't win soon he is a bust. Same with the Hulk. These are just kids!!!

Hulk is facing the most experienced driver EVER in F1. Rebens just came off his best year in a long time. He seems to have the fire back. He is no grand master Schui but I see no reason why he will be beat this year. From what I've heard of Hulk he is a smart kid. He was integrating himself in the team already last year. I fully believe he will learn from Gramps this year. Rebens will win out more than not but the Hulk will have his days too.

There has never been a grid where each and every newbie was the "it" guy. There never will be. Some will strike fast, others will take some time. I think quite a few need to rethink their expectations.

The grid is simply too talented to let in every person who needs 'time' to get up to par. The bar is high, and if you cant immediately impress, then you're *probably* not good enough. I think a full season is enough to guage a driver's potential. If you dont do anything noteworthy, then you didn't do what you needed to do. "Next, please."

Its harsh, but the world of 'the best' isn't a place for the meek. All the top drivers have had impressive first seasons. They've done *something* that showed they were worth watching out for. If you cant do it, then you're justifiably going to be replaced by one of the myriad other 'potentially good' drivers in line.

Rubens is underrated, I'm sure. He's matched Button over a season for two years running, and he was possibly the strongest rival Schumacher ever had. But he's not top-drawer, and he's not invincible. Hulkenberg has been very good at getting up-to-speed in cars, and he's got the potential to be in the top tiers of F1 drivers. I wouldn't write The Hulk off just yet. We'll see.

[noikeee]

Ok. From what I know, the team also plays a part in the success of GP2 drivers. Does driving for ART give any advantage over driving for DAMS?

Theoretically yes, they are the most successful GP2 team and had won a few championships with that car, but DAMS was on fire last winter, got a sequence of success unseen since before or after. That was pretty obvious as both Kobayashi and d'Ambrosio were suddenly the guys to beat, and come the european season there were nowhere again...

But the main point is, that overall Hulk has been clearly more successful and impressive than Kobayashi every time they were against each other the lower formulas... in F3 as team-mates, in the GP2 main series, and in my opinion I would include those 2 race weekends in Asia as well...

[noikeee]

It is amazing how quickly all seem to want the newbies to progress at. Everyone seems to think that if drivers are not podium contenders from the get go that they are a bust. It used to take years for a driver to mature. How soon we forget how special it was to see Hammy do what he did? Vettel was second and by such a close margin. Yet I have seen way too many already say he is overrated! If Kobi doesn't win soon he is a bust. Same with the Hulk. These are just kids!!!

Hulk is facing the most experienced driver EVER in F1. Rebens just came off his best year in a long time. He seems to have the fire back. He is no grand master Schui but I see no reason why he will be beat this year. From what I've heard of Hulk he is a smart kid. He was integrating himself in the team already last year. I fully believe he will learn from Gramps this year. Rebens will win out more than not but the Hulk will have his days too.

There has never been a grid where each and every newbie was the "it" guy. There never will be. Some will strike fast, others will take some time. I think quite a few need to rethink their expectations.

Fair enough, but I have different standards for normal rookies and for guys like this... we're talking about a guy that was FBMW champion on debut season, then A1GP champion on debut season, then F3 Euroseries champion and then GP2 champion on debut season, and still 22y.o. He's been tested at the most competitive series at every level above karting and beat the field every time. That is very rare, more than you might think. You will not find many guys on F1 that did this, I can only think of Hamilton and Heidfeld.

[Simon Says]

If he's as good as Lewis, then he'll be able to deal with Rubens for sure.

[Simon Says]

Fair enough, but I have different standards for normal rookies and for guys like this... we're talking about a guy that was FBMW champion on debut season, then A1GP champion on debut season, then F3 Euroseries champion and then GP2 champion on debut season, and still 22y.o. He's been tested at the most competitive series at every level above karting and beat the field every time. That is very rare, more than you might think. You will not find many guys on F1 that did this, I can only think of Hamilton and Heidfeld.

Well, pre-F1 succes doesn't mean F1 succes. The most obvious example is Frentzen en Schumacher. While Frentzen was better pre-F1 then Schumacher when they raced against eachother, it was MS who won 7 WDC and Frentzen 0.

So it doesn't mean he'll do well in F1. Kobi-San is also an other great example

[LukeM]

The hulk will be a future star, I think at first he will be a little slower than Rubens but as the season progresses he will rise above him.

[Bunchies]

Theoretically yes, they are the most successful GP2 team and had won a few championships with that car, but DAMS was on fire last winter, got a sequence of success unseen since before or after. That was pretty obvious as both Kobayashi and d'Ambrosio were suddenly the guys to beat, and come the european season there were nowhere again...

But the main point is, that overall Hulk has been clearly more successful and impressive than Kobayashi every time they were against each other the lower formulas... in F3 as team-mates, in the GP2 main series, and in my opinion I would include those 2 race weekends in Asia as well...

Well I'll admit to being a bit of a fanboy, but I try to be a logical one...

But in any case, Hulkenberg seems to be in the best position of the rookies (Williams). I would not be surprised if he outperformed all of the rookies this year. But given the same equipment I don't think he can topple Rubens just yet. But who knows, he may just be the next Louis Hamilton. That caliber of driver generally looks good outright, and can even impress without an amazing car (Spa 91 qualifying). I'm waiting on the edge of my seat to see how this season turns out.

[slideways]

I would be amazed if the Hulk can even get close to Rubens in his first year.

[ex Rhodie racer 2]

Rubens will be throwing his toys by mid season. He´s a #2 driver and that won´t change at Williams. The hulk will hand him his arse.

Edited by ex Rhodie racer 2, 03 March 2010 - 08:00.

[Tract1on]

Well lets wait and see about Kobayashi.. maybe it was a one hit wonder. Sato looked impressive in Japan 2003.. only to find out he wasnt very good in 2004 onwards..

So it doesn't mean he'll do well in F1. Kobi-San is also an other great example

[Lights]

Well lets wait and see about Kobayashi.. maybe it was a one hit wonder. Sato looked impressive in Japan 2003.. only to find out he wasnt very good in 2004 onwards..

Well Kobayashi did beat Trulli in a straight fight.

Sato didn't change much between Japan 2003 and the following season.

[intothepits]

The team is evolving around Rubens, and Hulk, though Rubens is generally considered the #1 driver in the team, that can of course change during the season if Hulk performs better.

I can't see Rubens messing up though really, if given the car he can perform, and you've got to admit he's pretty determined to do well. He's a great driver usually given the short straw within a team, maybe this time he'll have more of an opportunity of been given first pickings.

[Lights]

The thing I have with Rubens is that when it doesn't go his way, it heavily influences his emotional state and performance. If Hulk starts beating him, Rubens will not like that. He will be motivated and driven to do even better but that can have a counterproductive effect. He wants too much.

[intothepits]

Well to be honest, I would be pretty cheesed off with some of the things that happened last season. It's only natural.

Sure, everyone apologizes after things are said and done but don't think for a second Ross Brawn wanted Rubens to be the champ over Jenson.

[stuckinsecond]

Poor post? That's a little judgmental. I gave an opinion based on what I actually saw them doing on track.

edit: And i feel it's a little ironic to label a post as 'poor' when your own post essentially serves as an internet "i told you so."

Of course it's a poor post. You stated that Koba is making the Hulk look ordinary in GP2 Asia. However the facts are that the Hulk beat Koba in the 3 out of the 4 races together. This in itself completely shows your post to be false, but when taken into account the fact that Koba has been in GP2 Asia for a whole season and the Hulk just entered, your post is well..poor.