57 replies to this topic

[Doug Nye]

Perhaps it might provide an uncomfortably revealing insight into the underlying health of current Formula 1 when an American F1 team project can fold, potentially making way for a Serbian F1 alternative to take over? I recall Vel Miletich as having been a Serbian-born entrant of considerable stature and success. Anybody else care to recall Serbian success - or even significant participation - on four wheels (and two)?

DCN

[ensign14]

Bill Vukovich was of Serbian descent, hence his nickname the Mad Russian.

Who was the chap who was the last GP driver before the War? Milenkovic?

[Richard Jenkins]

Pete Romcevich, US midget driver, with one Indy 500 start, was born in Silopaj, Serbia, and grew up there for a little while, before moving to the US.

Milos Pavlovic, who I think is lined up as Stefan's 3rd driver, is in GP2 and is also Serbian.

[Vitesse2]

Bill Vukovich was of Serbian descent, hence his nickname the Mad Russian.

Who was the chap who was the last GP driver before the War? Milenkovic?

Vuky and Milenkovic were the two that came to mind for me too. There was also a sports car driver at the Belgrade meeting called Lazar Radic who made rather a mess of his BMW 328 in practice and failed to start: I think he may have had some success on bikes.

[hansfohr]

Who was the chap who was the last GP driver before the War? Milenkovic?

Yes, he was the only Serbian who competed in the last pre-war GP which took place in Belgrado.

BTW Bosko 'Bata' Milenkovic was born in Vienna in 1909, he moved to Belgrado with his parents during the war.

[Mallory Dan]

Yes, he was the only Serbian who competed in the last pre-war GP which took place in Belgrado.

BTW Bosko 'Bata' Milenkovic was born in Vienna in 1909, he moved to Belgrado with his parents during the war.

Saeed Alihodzic???

[Hugo Boecker]

Wasn't Josip Broz (also know as Tito) a works- or test driver with Daimler at Vienna befor WWI ?

[hansfohr]

Wasn't Josip Broz (also know as Tito) a works- or test driver with Daimler at Vienna befor WWI ?

Our befriended dictator was only a testdriver for Mercedes, I reckon only roadcars. LOL

During his reign Tito was transported around with a 600 Pullmann Laundalet, the ultimate example of western materialism.

Edited by hansfohr, 03 March 2010 - 14:23.

[Doug Nye]

Bill Vukovich was of Serbian descent, hence his nickname the Mad Russian.

Hmm - Serbia - Russia...am I alone in failing to see the link?

DCN

Edited by Doug Nye, 03 March 2010 - 14:53.

[Sharman]

They must be talking about the support given to the Serbian pit crew in 1914.

[Vitesse2]

I believe ensign is making an oblique reference to the well-known American grasp of geography No doubt thought up by some smart promoter: Cold War and all that. In fact, Vuky preferred to be known as "The Silent Serb", but that doesn't sound so combative does it?

[David McKinney]

I believe ensign is making an oblique reference to the well-known American grasp of geography

That's the one that makes Germans Dutch, right?

[ensign14]

And puts the Mid-West somewhere in the east.

[Racer.Demon]

That's the one that makes Germans Dutch, right?

Really? I thought that Holland was the capital of Copenhagen.

[maoricar]

Don't be TOO hard on US geography teachers; Serbian boundaries have been and still are, at best, a moving target, at least since since the 12C.
Holland is in Michigan..we ALL know THAT!!

Len Jelaca (2 wheels) would qualify as a better than average Speedway rider; Auckland NZ early 1960's; probably also his son.
Robbie Francevic ( Franecevic?)
Frank Radisich
Nev

[Doug Nye]

Poor old Septics taking a pounding again...no harm meant fellers...

DCN

[hansfohr]

I believe ensign is making an oblique reference to the well-known American grasp of geography.

For the mainstream US citizen any piece of land east of Germany is simply regarded as the USSR.

No joke: once I met an American in Holland. He said: "I got a friend in Hamburg, his name is Hans. Do you know him?"

[Giraffe]

For the mainstream US citizen any piece of land east of Germany is simply regarded as the USSR.

No joke: once I met an American in Holland. He said: "I got a friend in Hamburg, his name is Hans. Do you know him?"

Ha! Without the surname you wouldn't have stood a chance, hansfohr!

[ensign14]

No joke: once I met an American in Holland. He said: "I got a friend in Hamburg, his name is Hans. Do you know him?"

Similar thing happened to me at Daytona. It's a question of scale, when I said England is smaller than New England but has more people than Texas and New York combined, they couldn't believe how we all managed to fit in. Obviously a two-hour drive is a different sort of thing Stateside than it is over here!

[Radoye]

Some of those mentioned here might not be Serbian but Croatian or Bosniak.

It is quite complicated for non-Yugoslavs to grasp the differences between the various Balkan tribes since they all have unpronounceable names and speak pretty much the same language, but in broadest terms the difference is religion: if Roman Catholic - most likely Croat, if Eastern Orthodox - most likely Serb, if Muslim - most likely Bosniak.

There are other more subtle differences between them (not all Catholics are necessarily Croat; not all Orthodox are necessarily Serb) but it is pretty much irrelevant for this discussion.

Sead Alihodzic is Bosniak. He is still around, although not in best health.
Frank Radisich (father of Paul) is of Croatian descent if my sources are right.
Francevich also sounds Croatian.
Bill Vukovich was most definitely of Serbian ethnicity, from Montenegro. His real surname was Vucurovic. Don't know if his son and grandson (Bill II and III) would count as Serbian too.


Others not yet mentioned here that hail from the Serbo-Croato-Bosniak background:

Frank Matich - needs no introduction
Carlos Marincovich and his uncle Nestor 'Sandokan' Marincovich - both raced in Argentina
Zdravko Matulja - ran in MotoGP
Mile Pajic - ran in MotoGP
Cedomir Velickovic - several pre-war grands prix and rally participations
Branko Halik - ran in a few F3 events in Sweden in 70's
Milivoje Bozic - DNF-ed in a F2 Porsche at Zeltweg, 1959; ran mostly hillclimbs
Joe Mihalic - NASCAR 1970's
Jeff Lapcevich - ran (still runs?) in CASCAR/NASCAR Canadian Tire Series
Andrej Pavicevic - likely of Montenegrin background, races in Australia

Not sure about this one:
Dragutin Esser
http://en.wikipedia..../Dragutin_Esser

[David McKinney]

Francevic and Radisich are indeed both of Croatian descent

[Barry Boor]

Sadly, despite apparently being ready to step into the failed US.F1 slot this season, the Serbian's efforts to gain an entry have finally been rejected.

RATS!

[rateus]

Bill Vukovich was most definitely of Serbian ethnicity, from Montenegro.

Serb or Montenegrin - he can't be both, surely?

Also there was Francy Jerancic, occasional F2 non-qualifier from the mid-70s - irrc he was sponsored by a hotel from Novo Mesto which would most likely make him Slovene but I've never seen any confirmation.

[byrkus]

Franci Jerančič is indeed from Slovenia.

[Radoye]

Serb or Montenegrin - he can't be both, surely?

Try tell to the 32% of the citizens of Montenegro who declared themselves as Serbs on the 2003 census they can't be Serbs and see what happens.

[Radoye]

Franci Jerančič is indeed from Slovenia.

Yes, Franci is a Slovene. Besides his forays into F2 he also registered for the 1985 Le Mans 24h but was not allowed to compete.

[VWV]

Frank Kurtis' father was a Croatian, Francika Kuretic

[Jesper O. Hansen]

Franci Jerančič is indeed from Slovenia.

He also competed in the European touring car championship in the early 1980s, as did Jugoslav Dagmar Suster. Suster seems to have been quite a prolific competitor racing in Alfa Romeos for years, through Audis and finishing with the end of the series in 1988 in a BMW M3. From what I can gather he was later involved in politics on a ministerial level If I'm correct. So what was his nationality?

Jesper

[rateus]

Dagmar Suster seems to have been quite a prolific competitor racing in Alfa Romeos for years, through Audis and finishing with the end of the series in 1988 in a BMW M3. From what I can gather he was later involved in politics on a ministerial level If I'm correct. So what was his nationality?

Slovene again (from Ljubljana), at least according to multiple google hits. Apparently he won the Slovenian Touring Car Champioship in 1999 in a BMW. Also one of the last Slovenes to hold a post in the former Yugoslavia's federal government (in the Economic Chamber) and more recently high up in the Slovenian Chamber of Commerce.

[hansfohr]

Suster seems to have been quite a prolific competitor racing in Alfa Romeos for years, through Audis and finishing with the end of the series in 1988 in a BMW M3. From what I can gather he was later involved in politics on a ministerial level If I'm correct. So what was his nationality? Jesper

Dagmar Suster is definitely Slovenian.

BTW In 1999 he won the Slovenian touringcarchampionship with a BMW M3. He continued racing in the series until 2006, still with the M3. AFAIK Suster is (or was?) president of the Slovenian Chamber of Commerce.

Edited by hansfohr, 05 March 2010 - 10:58.

[Bewlib]

Nina Jerancic from Slovenia was a top karter and now races Ferraris. I always assumed she is the daughter of Frank but can't be sure. Quite nice looking!

[hansfohr]

Nina Jerancic from Slovenia was a top karter and now races Ferraris. I always assumed she is the daughter of Frank but can't be sure. Quite nice looking!

She is racing for the Jeffra Racing Team, based in Ljublana and already active in motorsports for 40 years. Nina and Frank (born in 1951) must be related!

[byrkus]

"Jefra" is Jerančič's nickname (JErančič FRAnci), Nina is his daughter. But she can't be active for 40 years, since she was born only in 1977.;)

Dagmar Šuster won many Slovenian championships - which is actually no big surprise, for he was the only cempetitor in some of the classes in later years.

And speaking of Slovenian racers, there is also Matjaž Tomlje, who raced at Le Mans in 1994 or 1995 and finished 3rd in class, IIRC. He than tried to return in next year with some protoype car, but the team (with Eric van de Poele and Olivier Beretta) got disqualified for running underweight. By the way, Tomlje is current holder of "Walter Wolf" trade mark in Slovenia -cosmetics, cigarettes, etc- which on other side means, that Walter Wolf in person (himself party Slovenian...) doesn't have the commercial rights to use his own name... Quite silly, really.

[hansfohr]

"Jefra" is Jerančič's nickname (JErančič FRAnci), Nina is his daughter. But she can't be active for 40 years, since she was born only in 1977.;)

I was referring to the team, sorry for the confusion. LOL

Edited by hansfohr, 05 March 2010 - 14:14.

[hansfohr]

And speaking of Slovenian racers, there is also Matjaž Tomlje, who raced at Le Mans in 1994 or 1995 and finished 3rd in class, IIRC. He than tried to return in next year with some protoype car, but the team (with Eric van de Poele and Olivier Beretta) got disqualified for running underweight. By the way, Tomlje is current holder of "Walter Wolf" trade mark in Slovenia -cosmetics, cigarettes, etc- which on other side means, that Walter Wolf in person (himself party Slovenian...) doesn't have the commercial rights to use his own name... Quite silly, really.

Actually Tomlje built the 'Mobitrack Ljulbjana' (proposed by Walter Wolf) and the 'Mobikrog' (Novo Mesto) track at Cerklje ob Krki. The latter track was a round for the ETCC in 2000.

Like Jerančič he raced a BMW M3 in the Slovenian TC, winning the title in 1990.

In the 1994 Le Mans 24H he shared a Dutch sponsored 3.8L Porsche Carrera RSR with my compatriots Cor Euser and Patrick Huisman. As you already pointed out they finished 3rd in their category (GT2) and an impressive 10th overall.
http://www.endurance...s-du-mans-1994/

Edited by hansfohr, 05 March 2010 - 14:44.

[HistoryFan]

Zoran Stefanovic said he has 40 years experience of motorsport. I never find anything about him?

[Radoye]

Zoran Stefanovic said he has 40 years experience of motorsport. I never find anything about him?

He ran in the 850cc "National" class (Zastava 750's) in the early 1980's at least a few events. He was also involved in management of Partizan Belgrade auto-racing club at one point. His son Vuk did some karting locally.

That's all i could dig up.

[Jones Foyer]

Sadly, despite apparently being ready to step into the failed US.F1 slot this season, the Serbian's efforts to gain an entry have finally been rejected.

RATS!

Really too bad since the team said they were ready. Not sure they can survive to wait for next season.

[RStock]

I believe ensign is making an oblique reference to the well-known American grasp of geography

Hey ! That's unfair . We have quite a grasp of geography , and I can prove it .

Go ahead , ask me the capital of Cleveland .




^There's another obscure telly reference for you .

[HistoryFan]

He ran in the 850cc "National" class (Zastava 750's) in the early 1980's at least a few events. He was also involved in management of Partizan Belgrade auto-racing club at one point. His son Vuk did some karting locally.

That's all i could dig up.

Thank you.
Vuk is also shareholder on Stefan GP.

[Radoye]

Vuk is also shareholder on Stefan GP.

Yes i believe that's him.

[sramoa]

I think this thread name will be:ex-Yugoslavian racers...

[Vitesse2]

Hey ! That's unfair . We have quite a grasp of geography , and I can prove it .

Go ahead , ask me the capital of Cleveland .




^There's another obscure telly reference for you .

Sergeant Zale was not Serbian. Corporal Klinger was at least Lebanese and very partial to Packo's Hungarian Hot Dogs. Although his business was based in Toledo, Packo presumably came from Hungary - which is almost next door to Serbia!

Added to that Cleveland and Toledo are both in Ohio.

Do I win "Soldier of the Month"?

♫ Saturday night in Toledo Ohio is like being nowhere at all ....

Edited by Vitesse2, 06 March 2010 - 10:57.

[sramoa]

Hungarian Hot Dogs???Our haven't hod dog only about 20-30 years ago
But in Cleveland,OH was "Little Budapest" because about 800 000(+/-) hungarians living there area(Ohio) in 20th century...

Other:In Hungary living a lot of serbian people -about 100 000,better in Szentendre,Ráckeve-possible some Serbian people born in Hungary(We call their:Rác) and later will be US citizen and desribed their Serbian,Hungarian...

[Radoye]

Other:In Hungary living a lot of serbian people -about 100 000,better in Szentendre,Ráckeve-possible some Serbian people born in Hungary(We call their:Rác) and later will be US citizen and desribed their Serbian,Hungarian...

Before WWI there used to be a huge Serb population in Hungary (i mean within today borders of Hungary; before Hungary used to control parts of northern Serbia as well as almost entire Croatia, Slovakia and a big chunk of Romania) that goes way back to before the Turkish conquests. And then, there was another huge influx in the 17th Century when a lot of Serb refugees fled from the Turkish oppression and settled in what was then southern Hungary, on the Military Frontier towards Ottoman Turkey.

After the Great War and the Treaty of Trianon when the current Hungarian borders were drawn, there was an agreement between Hungary and the newly formed Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes (which was later renamed Yugoslavia) to sponsor the re-settlement of those Serbs and Croats who remained within the Trianon borders if they wished to move to Serbia proper. A lot of them have taken up this option, just a minority remained.

There are maybe about 4-5,000 autochthonous ethnic Serbs remaining in Hungary, however there is a number of Serbs who moved there more recently either as refugees (from Croatia, Bosnia AND Serbia) during the Balkan Wars of the 1990's or Serbian citizens who live and do business in Hungary. I doubt the total number is as high as 100,000 thousand though.

There is also a number of ethnic Hungarians who have family names that originate form Serbian (Croatian, Slovene, Slovak, German...) who are likely descendants of assimilated members of ethnic minority groups. And vice versa - quite a few ethnic Serbs in northern Serbia have Hungarian-sounding surnames.

There is also a significant ethnic Hungarian population living in northern Serbia, about 300,000. One of these is Gabor Saghmeister, who for the last few years competed on a bike at the Dakar Rally under Serbian flag.

[ggnagy]

Sergeant Zale was not Serbian. Corporal Klinger was at least Lebanese and very partial to Packo's Hungarian Hot Dogs. Although his business was based in Toledo, Packo presumably came from Hungary - which is almost next door to Serbia!

Added to that Cleveland and Toledo are both in Ohio.

Do I win "Soldier of the Month"?

♫ Saturday night in Toledo Ohio is like being nowhere at all ....

And Klinger's best buddy that stole his girl was Gus Nagy, another Hungarian.

Yeah... guess what one of the "g"s in my login stands for.

[RStock]

Sergeant Zale was not Serbian. Corporal Klinger was at least Lebanese and very partial to Packo's Hungarian Hot Dogs. Although his business was based in Toledo, Packo presumably came from Hungary - which is almost next door to Serbia!

Added to that Cleveland and Toledo are both in Ohio.

Do I win "Soldier of the Month"?

♫ Saturday night in Toledo Ohio is like being nowhere at all ....

Hungarian Hot Dogs???Our haven't hod dog only about 20-30 years ago
But in Cleveland,OH was "Little Budapest" because about 800 000(+/-) hungarians living there area(Ohio) in 20th century...

And Klinger's best buddy that stole his girl was Gus Nagy, another Hungarian.

Yeah... guess what one of the "g"s in my login stands for.

I'm glad to see some did get the reference .

And , there actually is an Hungarian named Tony Packo who serves Hungarian Hot Dogs in Toledo .

http://www.tonypackos.com/history.php

Oh , and Vitesse . You win S.O.M. and get three nights R&R in Tokyo .


Go Toledo Mudhens !

[scootergirlnz]

Don't be TOO hard on US geography teachers; Serbian boundaries have been and still are, at best, a moving target, at least since since the 12C.
Holland is in Michigan..we ALL know THAT!!

Len Jelaca (2 wheels) would qualify as a better than average Speedway rider; Auckland NZ early 1960's; probably also his son.
Robbie Francevic ( Franecevic?)
Frank Radisich
Nev

Len Jelaca (my uncle) wasn't Serbian but Dalmatian/Croatian.

[Michael Ferner]

By the way, Tomlje is current holder of "Walter Wolf" trade mark in Slovenia -cosmetics, cigarettes, etc- which on other side means, that Walter Wolf in person (himself party Slovenian...) doesn't have the commercial rights to use his own name... Quite silly, really.

No, not silly at all - in fact, quite clever and WAY ahead of his time. When WW entered F1, he didn't have a sponsor, and financed everything out of his own pocket. The cars just carried the logo "Walter Wolf Racing". In commercial terms, he established a brand name and logo without a product to sell. At the time, everybody thought that he was just so stinkin' rich that he didn't care, but then he began to sell the brand. I'm not sure how many companies bought it, but I AM sure that WW is still smiling on the way to his bank...

[fausto]

He also competed in the European touring car championship in the early 1980s, as did Jugoslav Dagmar Suster. Suster seems to have been quite a prolific competitor racing in Alfa Romeos for years, through Audis and finishing with the end of the series in 1988 in a BMW M3. From what I can gather he was later involved in politics on a ministerial level If I'm correct. So what was his nationality?

Jesper

Suster raced Group 2 touring cars from the early '70s with Drago Regvart (Alfa Romeo GTAm and Volkswagen Scirocco) and the Audi 80 with Franci Jerancic. The 80 was the very same car raced by Stirling Moss. Wonder where it is be now