34 replies to this topic

[LucaP]

http://www.motoblog....riante#continua

the source is usually highly reliable

rough translation:

The first chicane of the Monza track has been changed.

The braking zone will be unaltered, but the corner exit (turning left in acceleration) will be curvier and wider.
The article says that this modification will be used for bike events (World Superbikes and CIV Italian Championship) but it doesn't say anything about car races....
and I still have to see a map yet...

[Lights]

EDIT: Very stupid comment, never mind.

Edited by Lights, 06 March 2010 - 22:47.

[D.M.N.]

Can't see that having any major effect on F1 really. I don't think it would be made much wider.

[Radoye]

Is there really room on the outside there for any significant change?

[ensign14]

Here's a rad idea: last time there were no chicanes at Monza, the first five cars finished within a second of each other. What better way to spice up the racing than scrapping the godawful things?

[LucaP]

it's not wider in the sense of an increase of width, it's wider in the sense of the radius of the corner

[PayasYouRace]

Here's a rad idea: last time there were no chicanes at Monza, the first five cars finished within a second of each other. What better way to spice up the racing than scrapping the godawful things?

Actually I've been thinking about how feasable that would be with modern safety technology. I'll post it when I've drawn it all up.

[Radoye]

They'd be too quick into Curva Grande without a chicane. And there's no place to further expand the runoff area at CG which would be necessary to accommodate for cars going off there at such greater speed.

[canon1753]

Bank the Curva Grande.

[Brandz07]

Bank the Curva Grande.

[pRy]

Might be to avoid the silly situation currently where cars end up all over the place.

[froggy22]

Here's a rad idea: last time there were no chicanes at Monza, the first five cars finished within a second of each other. What better way to spice up the racing than scrapping the godawful things?

i dont want to watch oval racing, thank you

[domhnall]

i dont want to watch oval racing, thank you

Lesmos, ascari, parabolica, all great corners

[Brandz07]

without the chicanes the lap time would be too short and the track would get dull imo

[Clatter]

without the chicanes the lap time would be too short and the track would get dull imo

Was the track too dull before they put the chicanes in?

Edited by Clatter, 07 March 2010 - 00:43.

[Arska]

Bank the Curva Grande.

And when a car suffers suspension damage in the middle of it and flies off towards the outside? Will you say "Oopsie, my bad"?

[froggy22]

at least these chicanes provide overtaking opportunities, taking them away with modern f1 will do nothing + as people already mentioned, safety

[ensign14]

And when a car suffers suspension damage in the middle of it and flies off towards the outside? Will you say "Oopsie, my bad"?

I think I'd blame the suspension rather than the track.

[LoudHoward]

The no chicane thing (Assuming they kept Ascari) would be tops for single lap qualifying. Would seem a little bleh for the race however, the chicanes are the only corners where they can get near each other.

[Atreiu]

Did you miss last years first corner pile up in at the chincane in the first WSBK race? It was ugly and the guys really got hurt.
Of course, it would be a much simpler and easier solution to have the bike races start at the back straight before Parabolica.
Duh.

There would be no run off safe for a straight on Curva Grande with no chincane before it. Not unless you had 500 metres available. Not to mention knocking down the bridge further by and widening the track and the run off down there too, and then subsequently altering the next chincane because imagine what would happen if someone miscalculated their braking on an overtaking attempt before the Variante. He probably would stop until the Lesmo barriers...

Edited by Atreiu, 07 March 2010 - 06:42.

[Kucki]

Monza without chicanes would be fantastic and with modern safety features quite possible. But these pussies would never do it.

I cant believe some people believe cars couldnt overtake without these chicanes, dont you guys see how much cars close up on each other with the slip stream at Monza, but just before they get close the chicane is there and the gap increases again, remember the long straight at Hockenheim and how cars could make a overtaking move even when they came from way behind, same would be at Monza without chicanes

Edited by Kucki, 07 March 2010 - 06:45.

[Atreiu]

Of course they could theoretically do it Kucki, but go tell the politicians and tree huggers you need to knock acres of trees down because you want a track with an average speed of 300 k/h. Such tracks are only remotely feasable in the middle of nowhere, like Bahrain.

Instead of a chincaneless Monza, I'd rather see F1 at Norisring. 30 second laps. No time for rest. Action all the way.

[froggy22]

Monza without chicanes would be fantastic and with modern safety features quite possible. But these pussies would never do it.

I cant believe some people believe cars couldnt overtake without these chicanes, dont you guys see how much cars close up on each other with the slip stream at Monza, but just before they get close the chicane is there and the gap increases again, remember the long straight at Hockenheim and how cars could make a overtaking move even when they came from way behind, same would be at Monza without chicanes

well the old Hockenheim had chicanes, so im not sure about you point there. also, where are you expecting these cars to be overtaking, Lesmo's? too narrow, only place i see is parabolica

[PayasYouRace]

Some of you aren't thinking. The run-off at Curva Grande is actually quite big, and more importantly curves with the corner itself so the angle of any impact would be quite low. The first Lesmo is the only one with where there would be a problem. The Parabolica would not really be affected because the speed increase approaching it would be quite small over the current speeds.

[froggy22]

Some of you aren't thinking. The run-off at Curva Grande is actually quite big, and more importantly curves with the corner itself so the angle of any impact would be quite low.

so big that Coulthard managed to find the barriers in 2007....

[Pingguest]

I'd like to see Monza without the chicanes and with the old and faster Lesmo's. If the safety wouldn't allow it, the FIA should alter the cars instead. A good solution would be to reduce downforce dramatically.

Here some nice footages of the old Monza.

1967:


1969:


1970:


1971:

[PayasYouRace]

so big that Coulthard managed to find the barriers in 2007....

Fine. He hit the barrier. But he wasn't seriously hurt. You'd never be able to make that run-off big enough even with the chicane to avoid a car ever hitting a barrier. If you had a tarmac run-off* and a TecPro/SAFER style barrier then the risk of injury would be reduced. That's why I think it would be feasable.

Remember that with these modern barriers the car won't bury itself in it. It will be deflected along the barrier.

*I know tarmac run-off is unpopular but at high speeds it is the safest option. At lower speeds I'd prefer gravel because it would punish the driver's mistake.

[Crazy Ninja]

Can you imagine how awesome curva grande would be if that first chicane wasnt there? Martin Brundle said in commentary once it used to be terrifiying going through there in the old turbo era cars. Obviously today's cars are much more advanced but it would still be a hell of a spectacle.

[kosmic33]

Apparently two more chicanes for the 2010 race
http://joesaward.fil.../03/sep0098.jpg

and i was expecting this when i opened the thread..........

[Radoye]

Can you imagine how awesome curva grande would be if that first chicane wasnt there? Martin Brundle said in commentary once it used to be terrifiying going through there in the old turbo era cars. Obviously today's cars are much more advanced but it would still be a hell of a spectacle.

You do realize when Brundle drove there in a turbo car the chicane was already in place?

[Brandz07]

Was the track too dull before they put the chicanes in?

im too young too know, but anyway, the cars have changed dramatically so circuits that were good then doesn't necessarily mean they will be good now.

[rodlamas]

You do realize when Brundle drove there in a turbo car the chicane was already in place?

Perhaps u should remember that was a faster chicane and the cars had 50% extra power compared to nowadays. And they did not have the same downforce and grip from the tires.

So that was a hell of challenge indeed.

[pingu666]

the other possible solution would be to bring the barriers closer to the track, safer barrier oval style, and remmber teams all bring special monza spec aero now, so you could just mandate a hanford like device on the rear wing

[pingu666]

just looking on google earth, "removing" (just dont use it ) the first chicane should be entirely possible, the second one you could remove aswell with no issues in that area, might need to repave it tho.... problem is if u remove the 2nd one, you arrive at lesmo 1 going zomg fast, and theres not much room for run off there, and its a sharp corner so a safer barrier is abit :s

maybe a safer barrier but many layers, the front layers not against a hard wall, so the car hits them and moves them and they drag along the ground, gently slowing the car (relativily)

it might be possible to bring the corner forward a few metres aswell

[Crazy Ninja]

You do realize when Brundle drove there in a turbo car the chicane was already in place?

Yeah man, them turbo cars had such ferocious acceleration though i'd imagine they'd be going through there almost as quick as a modern f1 car would be doing without the chicane in place.

Edited by Crazy Ninja, 07 March 2010 - 20:52.