67 replies to this topic

[David B Fletcher]

My name is David Fletcher. I am a long time vintage racing fan and relatively recent vintage racer (1972 Porsche 914-6 and 1964 Lotus 23).

I am trying to research the early history of my Lotus 23. A member of this forum, "Cynic", posted a picture of the car a few years ago. It showed the car at Daytona being raced by Doug Champlin in 1967.




This picture and accompanying information prompted me to contact Mr. Champlin who told me that he had purchased the car from Gus Hutchison, who has been discussed at length in this forum.

Mr. Hutchison supplied me with pictures of him driving the car at Riverside in 1966.






Mr. Hutchison confirmed that when he drove the car it had the same 1.5 liter Coventry Climax V8 that was in the car when Champlin drove it. Mr. Hutchison was very generous in telling me all he could remember about the car and even sent me the original wheels that he had. The one thing he couldn't remember was who he bought the car from. Mr. Hutchison lived in Texas and he thinks he bought the car from someone out of state. He also recalled that the person he bought the car from had installed the Coventry Climax V8 engine. I think there were relatively few Lotus 23s with 1.5 liter V8s. I think the sale to Hutchison could have been as early as late 1964 or as late as early 1966.

Any information that forum members could supply would be greatly appreciated.

Regards,

David Fletcher

Edited by David B Fletcher, 10 March 2010 - 20:41.

[Michael Oliver]

My name is David Fletcher. I am a long time vintage racing fan and relatively recent vintage racer (1972 Porsche 914-6 and 1964 Lotus 23).

I am trying to research the early history of my Lotus 23. A member of this forum, "Cynic", posted a picture of the car a few years ago. It showed the car at Daytona being raced by Doug Champlin in 1967.




This picture and accompanying information prompted me to contact Mr. Champlin who told me that he had purchased the car from Gus Hutchison, who has been discussed at length in this forum.

Mr. Hutchison supplied me with pictures of him driving the car at Riverside in 1966.






Mr. Hutchison confirmed that when he drove the car it had the same 1.5 liter Coventry Climax V8 that was in the car when Champlin drove it. Mr. Hutchison was very generous in telling me all he could remember about the car and even sent me the original wheels that he had. The one thing he couldn't remember was who he bought the car from. Mr. Hutchison lived in Texas and he thinks he bought the car from someone out of state. He also recalled that the person he bought the car from had installed the Coventry Climax V8 engine. I think there were relatively few Lotus 23s with 1.5 liter V8s. I think the sale to Hutchison could have been as early as late 1964 or as late as early 1966.

Any information that forum members could supply would be greatly appreciated.

Regards,

David Fletcher

David

There was a Climax 1.5-engined car advertised in August and September 1964 from a Mississipi location. The car had a Porsche 718 transaxle, not sure if this tallies though...

Gerry Bruihl raced a Climax-engined 23 in 1964 and 1965 but something I just looked up suggests this was a 2-litre engine. Gerry was based in Portland, Oregon.

Others who raced a 23-Climax in 1964 included Ed Hugus (think he ended up putting a Ferrari engine in this car though), Wick Williams (not sure of capacity), Rick Muther (Laguna Beach, CA), Chuck Kessinger (don't know anything about this guy), Frank Monise (CA), Tony Settember, Bob Keyes, Bob Winkelmann, Ken Miles, Bob McLean, Chuck Parsons, John Morton, Mike Goth (although I think this later went Alfa-powered if it is the same car), Tom Terrell, Bob Shaw, then in 1965 Jim Paul, Bill Molle, Ed Marshall, Paul Scott (who also put a Ferrari in his, I think), Doug Revson and George Alderman. All listing info courtesy of Martin Kreijci's great wspr.ic.cz site, which has a section on the USRRC, for which a great many of these car/engine combos were used.

I seem to recall reading in a Competition Press article that Marv Webster used to build and provide spares for these engines, hence their apparent proliferation on the West Coast, so far away from the home of Climax.

Don't suppose this helps much but perhaps Gus might recognise one of those names!

Michael

[JB Miltonian]

The 23/Climax mentioned above as advertised for sale in Mississippi should be easy to identify, as the ad in question states that the car is "ex-London Racing Show car with only aluminum body made." The seller was Sid Kelly.

[TEDD]

The Doug Revson car had a 2.0 Coventry Climax F.P.F. in it. Know this because my Father Rich Dagiel, owned it / raced it from 1970 till about 1980

Edited by TEDD, 21 May 2010 - 04:52.

[raceannouncer2003]

Gerry Bruihl raced a Climax-engined 23 in 1964 and 1965 but something I just looked up suggests this was a 2-litre engine. Gerry was based in Portland, Oregon.

Others who raced a 23-Climax in 1964 included...Bob McLean

From Martin Rudow's "Weekends of Glory", "...Bruihl was able to buy two twin-cam Coventry Climax FPF engines, one 2.5 liter and one 2.7 liter that once powered Jack Nethercutt's Lotus 19. By putting a 1.5 Climax crank in 2.5-liter block a two-litre engine was created..."

As for Bob McLean, i don't think he had a Climax in his 23...see photo below from Mosport, 1965:



Photo by Ted Langton-Adams, copyright Eric Faulks.

Vince H.

[Elanman]

Hi All, I own the 23 that "Doc" Bill Molle raced in the USRCC in '65 and to the best of my knowledge and research it never had a Climax engine installed, I wish it had! I suspect the website quoted by Michael has copied it's data from the USRCC archives which are very patchy interms of car specification. It often shows Climax as the engine in a wide range of Lotus which didn't have them, so I suspect the actual list of Climax runners is rather shorter than the list implies.
David, I for my sins am one of the Lotus 23 registrars for the Historic Lotus Register (an entertaining if somewhat controversial occupation). If you care to pm me your details I will see what records we have that may help you.
Best Regards, Nick

[RA Historian]

Hi All, I own the 23 that "Doc" Bill Molle raced in the USRCC in '65 and to the best of my knowledge and research it never had a Climax engine installed, I wish it had! I suspect the website quoted by Michael has copied it's data from the USRCC archives which are very patchy interms of car specification. It often shows Climax as the engine in a wide range of Lotus which didn't have them, so I suspect the actual list of Climax runners is rather shorter than the list implies.

I agree. The list that ran above is way, way too long for those that actually had Climaxes. I suspect that there were no more than a small handful that ever did. The erroneous data likely came from a combination of patchy archives in which the initial enterer of the information went by hearsay or guesswork and faulty assumptions of the time wherein the fact that since early Lotuses, Elvas, and Lolas all were powered by Climax, therefore the later cars must be also.
Tom

[Michael Oliver]

The 23/Climax mentioned above as advertised for sale in Mississippi should be easy to identify, as the ad in question states that the car is "ex-London Racing Show car with only aluminum body made." The seller was Sid Kelly.

I wish it was that easy! This ad has intrigued me for a long time... Does anyone know anything more about the vendor, Sid Kelly? The car was advertised from a hotel in Jackson, Mississippi.

But which chassis he is talking about is unclear. There is some conjecture in Graham Capel's 23 book that 23-S-1 was the Sy Kaback Sebring car which never got to do the race and that it was the Racing Car Show car. It apparently was 'sold' to Harvey Snow in CA for a small deposit - the rest of the payment for the car was never received - but I have yet to work out who might have bought it from Snow, there are several candidates eg Frank Monise and Edna Sherman. Again, I have seen reports of Monise running a 23 later on (eg not from new) with a Climax but I don't know how reliable these are...

Michael

[raceannouncer2003]

There is some conjecture in Graham Capel's 23 book that 23-S-1 was the Sy Kaback Sebring car which never got to do the race and that it was the Racing Car Show car. It apparently was 'sold' to Harvey Snow in CA for a small deposit - the rest of the payment for the car was never received - but I have yet to work out who might have bought it from Snow, there are several candidates eg Frank Monise and Edna Sherman. Again, I have seen reports of Monise running a 23 later on (eg not from new) with a Climax but I don't know how reliable these are...

Michael

Here is a link to a photo, apparently of the Kaback Sebring car:

http://www.racingspo...2-03-24-071.jpg

Another candidate for who bought it from Snow might have been Pat Pigott? He had his pretty early on. Here are photos from his first race in it, the first Player's Pacific at Westwood, May 6, 1962. He ran in 1100 cc (G Modified) for the first part of 1962. I was in touch with his two daughters last year. I don't know that they would have any info on this, but I could ask if you like.



Photos by Ted Langton-Adams, copyright Eric Faulks.

Vince H.

[Elanman]

Pat Pigott ordered his car new from the factory, it was car #26 and was delivered to him late April 1962, so I guess you can rule him out. Nick

[Michael Oliver]

Here is a link to a photo, apparently of the Kaback Sebring car:

http://www.racingspo...2-03-24-071.jpg

Another candidate for who bought it from Snow might have been Pat Pigott? He had his pretty early on. Here are photos from his first race in it, the first Player's Pacific at Westwood, May 6, 1962. He ran in 1100 cc (G Modified) for the first part of 1962. I was in touch with his two daughters last year. I don't know that they would have any info on this, but I could ask if you like.



Photos by Ted Langton-Adams, copyright Eric Faulks.

Vince H.

Vince

Thanks for the link to the Sebring shot, I hadn't seen that one, although I had seen some colour shots of the two cars on the simplesevens website, which confirms they were both red.

Thanks also for the Pigott shots. As Nick says, Pigott bought his car direct from the factory so wouldn't be a candidate for the Harvey Snow car. An unpalatable topic, I know, but does anyone know what became of Pigott's car after his fatal accident, was it written off or rebuilt? Also, while I'm on the topic of West Coast/Western Canada cars, where did Bob McLean's 23 come from, does anybody know?

Back on the subject of what happened to the Harvey Snow car, 23-S-4 was red, this was the Posselius Sebring car, which apparently may have gone back to the factory after Sebring (does this seem likely/credible?). Edna Sherman was racing her car by late July 1962, IIRC correctly and, looking at the factory delivery list, there aren't many other candidates for her car, aside from 23-S-1, perhaps 23-S-13 if it was built (unlikely?), possibly 23-S-33 (customer name Briggs though) or one of the three cars 23-S-27, 23-S-28 and 23-S-29, which were delivered to Kaback in June 1962 (although we know that one of these - the red one of the trio - went new to, IIRC, Bill Martin and later on to one of our forum members, Lotus 23).

So still no nearer the truth...

Michael

[raceannouncer2003]

Above is a clipping from one of Bob McLean's scrapbooks. This was just prior to his first race in his Lotus 23B, at Westwood April 5, 1964. The article states: "...This particular car of McLean's was completed in England in late 1963, raced in two events at McLean's request by a factory driver, then shipped to Vancouver..." Apparently there were a number of 23Bs at Oulton Park and Snetterton in September of 1963, including Jim Clark! Does this help at all? I don't know how much info she has on this particular car, but I could ask Bob's widow Kathie if you like.

Vince H.

[raceannouncer2003]

Back on the subject of what happened to the Harvey Snow car, 23-S-4 was red, this was the Posselius Sebring car, which apparently may have gone back to the factory after Sebring (does this seem likely/credible?).

According to the following link, Jim Roth (of Palos Verdes Est., California), is racing 23-S-4 at Sonoma in group 5A in a few weeks:

http://generalracing...URDAYGROUPS.pdf

And according to this link, this is the Arciero/Parnelli Jones (etc.) car:

http://www.flickr.co...ulp/3685576243/

Does that sound right?

And here is a photo of Parnelli Jones at the 1963 Northwest GP, Pacific Raceways, Kent, Washington. He practised, but didn't race



Photo copyright Vince Howlett/Mike McBride/Eric Faulks

(They are going to wonder at my eye appointment tomorrow why my eyes are red. I should be in bed!)

Vince H.

[Elanman]

We have at least 2 claimants to 23-s-4 on the register, one in the USA and one in the Far East, one of them has a very compelling fully documented history and ownership trail..... Entertainingly I can't help but also notice two cars claiming to be 23-s 103 are in the same race as the US 23-s-4! Should make for an interesting paddock....
Nick

[Michael Oliver]

Above is a clipping from one of Bob McLean's scrapbooks. This was just prior to his first race in his Lotus 23B, at Westwood April 5, 1964. The article states: "...This particular car of McLean's was completed in England in late 1963, raced in two events at McLean's request by a factory driver, then shipped to Vancouver..." Apparently there were a number of 23Bs at Oulton Park and Snetterton in September of 1963, including Jim Clark! Does this help at all? I don't know how much info she has on this particular car, but I could ask Bob's widow Kathie if you like.

Vince H.

Thanks, Vince, very interesting. I wonder who the 'factory driver' was? There are several candidates, including Mike Costin, Mike Warner and Ray 'Digger' Parsons, who all raced 23s towards the end of the season and could all be said to have been works or 'works-involved' drivers for Lotus. Parsons was working on the Lotus-Cortinas but I believe the car he raced was a small-capacity 23, rather than a 23B with a twin-came engine, which appears to be what McLean bought.

If you do get a chance to ask Bob's widow, you never know, there might be some paperwork lying around or she may remember some other details. Looking at the original owner allocation list, there aren't too many candidates, especially if the car was black from new!

The only black car delivered around that time was to Martin on 5/7/63, which could have been Harry Martin, who took part in the USRRC round at Pacific Raceways on 31/7/63. Anybody know anything about him? I have him as being from San Francisco, CA and racing a Lotus 22 Formula Junior in 1962 but after that he disappears.

Harry Martin was a racing name of Martin Davidson here in the UK, he shared a Sprite in the Targa Florio with Jack Wheeler several (three?) times but I am guessing they are different people...

BTW, I found a cutting I had filed away which claims that Frank Monise was to be the recipient of the first car delivered to Harvey Snow in 1962, so perhaps 23-S-1 went to him after all.

The description of Jim Roth's car as being a 1962 car is a bit surprising and I would find it hard to believe that its chassis number is 23-S-4, perhaps there is a digit missing and it is -41 or -64? If it was S-4 and the ex-Arciero car, I would have expected it to be raced a little earlier than the Arciero Bros car's first appearance, which was mid-1963, IIRC?

Michael

Edited by Michael Oliver, 25 May 2010 - 13:56.

[raceannouncer2003]

If you do get a chance to ask Bob's widow, you never know, there might be some paperwork lying around or she may remember some other details. Looking at the original owner allocation list, there aren't too many candidates, especially if the car was black from new!

The only black car delivered around that time was to Martin on 5/7/63, which could have been Harry Martin, who took part in the USRRC round at Pacific Raceways on 31/7/63. Anybody know anything about him? I have him as being from San Francisco, CA and racing a Lotus 22 Formula Junior in 1962 but after that he disappears.

Harry Martin was a racing name of Martin Davidson here in the UK, he shared a Sprite in the Targa Florio with Jack Wheeler several (three?) times but I am guessing they are different people...

BTW, I found a cutting I had filed away which claims that Frank Monise was to be the recipient of the first car delivered to Harvey Snow in 1962, so perhaps 23-S-1 went to him after all.

The description of Jim Roth's car as being a 1962 car is a bit surprising and I would find it hard to believe that its chassis number is 23-S-4, perhaps there is a digit missing and it is -41 or -64? If it was S-4 and the ex-Arciero car, I would have expected it to be raced a little earlier than the Arciero Bros car's first appearance, which was mid-1963, IIRC?

Michael

Actually, as described in the article, Bob's 23B was "...a beautiful royal blue with a distinctive four-inch strip of white spread across its forward section...", Rob Walker colours used, I believe, with permission, as Bob was a big Stirling Moss fan. I believe he would have had it painted after he got it. I'll ask Kathie what colour it was when it arrived.

As for Frank Monise, Competition Press said "Frank Monise, driving his newly acquired 1500cc Lotus 23 (delivered the day before the race) won the feature at the 5th running of the 1-day San Luis Obispo Road Races..." (run August 5, 1962)

The October 14, 1962 Riverside program listed "95 Lotus Mk. XXIII Climax 1200cc Red, Skip Hudson, Riverside Arciero Brothers" although it is not listed in the results. Here is the link:

http://www.racingspo...1962-10-14e.jpg

Competition Press listed Skip Hudson as 12th OA at the October 21, 1962 Laguna Seca race in a "1.3 Lotus 23-Climax". CP also reported that "...the Arciero Equipe also included a Lotus 23 (1500 cc single cam Climax) for Skip Hudson..." for the December 9, 1962 Nassau Trophy race.

Vince H.

[Michael Oliver]

Actually, as described in the article, Bob's 23B was "...a beautiful royal blue with a distinctive four-inch strip of white spread across its forward section...", Rob Walker colours used, I believe, with permission, as Bob was a big Stirling Moss fan. I believe he would have had it painted after he got it. I'll ask Kathie what colour it was when it arrived.

As for Frank Monise, Competition Press said "Frank Monise, driving his newly acquired 1500cc Lotus 23 (delivered the day before the race) won the feature at the 5th running of the 1-day San Luis Obispo Road Races..." (run August 5, 1962)

The October 14, 1962 Riverside program listed "95 Lotus Mk. XXIII Climax 1200cc Red, Skip Hudson, Riverside Arciero Brothers" although it is not listed in the results. Here is the link:

http://www.racingspo...1962-10-14e.jpg

Competition Press listed Skip Hudson as 12th OA at the October 21, 1962 Laguna Seca race in a "1.3 Lotus 23-Climax". CP also reported that "...the Arciero Equipe also included a Lotus 23 (1500 cc single cam Climax) for Skip Hudson..." for the December 9, 1962 Nassau Trophy race.

Vince H.

Vince

I missed that bit about the dark blue colour in the clipping - thanks! The car doesn't look dark blue in the colour photo you posted though. Is it that colour and just hard to see because it was a very dark blue or was it repainted black at some stage? I gather this car went to Harold Brown, who bought it from the McLean estate.

Thanks also for the Monise and Hudson info. I've found some notes and, apparently, Monise had 23-S-27 first, then 23B-S-53 for the 1963 season. The Hudson car might have been 23-S-35, which was red and deliverd 27/8/62.

Michael

[raceannouncer2003]

The car doesn't look dark blue in the colour photo you posted though. Is it that colour and just hard to see because it was a very dark blue or was it repainted black at some stage? I gather this car went to Harold Brown, who bought it from the McLean estate.

The black car in the colour photo was the Pat Pigott Lotus 23. Yes, I understand Bob's car went to Harold Brown. Here is a photo:



Vince H.

[Mike Summers]

Michael is quite correct about the Monise cars. His first car, 23-S-27 was a pushrod car, red, that he ran for 1962. That car is still in Southern California owned by Don Davidson. He took delivery of his second car, 23-S-53, in Jan of 1963. That was a twin cam the that he owned for the next 16 years. It is now safe and warm in Sacramento, California

Mike S

[Mike Summers]

Since we are on the subject of Lotus 23's, the mystery still remains.............which Lotus 23 did Jim Clark drive at the 1963 LA Times Grand Prix at Riverside???

ms

[raceannouncer2003]

Since we are on the subject of Lotus 23's, the mystery still remains.............which Lotus 23 did Jim Clark drive at the 1963 LA Times Grand Prix at Riverside???

Apparently Bob Challman of Ecurie Shirlee, the local Lotus distributor, had just got the car. From the Motoracing coverage of the race: "...Challman hustled out the 23, which had just been flow over from England. A scant half-hour before the end of qualifying yesterday, Clark got on the course..."

Vince H.

[Michael Oliver]

The black car in the colour photo was the Pat Pigott Lotus 23. Yes, I understand Bob's car went to Harold Brown. Here is a photo:



Vince H.

Oh dear, I'm not doing very well am I, mixing up the Piggot and McLean cars

Thanks for the Harold Brown photo - any idea when it was taken?

The problem with the 'Bob Challman had just got the car' story is that, according to the production/delivery records in Graham Capel's Lotus 23 book, Challman received no Lotus 23s between 11/01/63 and 05/02/65, although both Duchess Auto (East) and Lotus Southwest (Texas) had deliveries during this period.

In the only photo I have seen of the #222 car, it appears to be silver or grey. The only grey car (there were no silvers) delivered in 1963 was 23B-S-81, which was sold to a company called Span International Inc on 26/07/63, which had also bought a white car on 30/04/63 - perhaps this was one of Challman's companies as I've never been able to find any mention of Span International Inc anywhere?

Michael

[Mike Summers]

Michael and all. I ran into Gene DeRulle this weekend at a car show. He worked at Challmans during that time period and crewed on the 23 that Clark drove at Riverside. From his memory, he said that Challman knew that the Arciero Lotus 19 that Clark was supposed to drive would probably never run for long, so he bought a "used" Lotus 23 to have as a back up. Gene told me that he and friends cleaned up the 23 and made it as raceable as possible in just a few days. That story was confirmed by Dave Thielke, Challmans General Manager. During a lunch, Dave told me that after Clark drove the 23, it sat for several months in the dealership. One day, Challman told him to load up the car and meet the "new" owner near the airport in Phoenix. Dave met the guy, handed over the car, and drove back home. Unfortunatly Dave cannot remember the new owners name. The mystery continues. So, based on this info, it was not a new car.

ms

[RA Historian]

In the only photo I have seen of the #222 car, it appears to be silver or grey. The only grey car (there were no silvers) delivered in 1963 was 23B-S-81, which was sold to a company called Span International Inc on 26/07/63, which had also bought a white car on 30/04/63 - perhaps this was one of Challman's companies as I've never been able to find any mention of Span International Inc anywhere?

Michael

Michael,

I believe that the Span International mentioned is the Span Motors that existed in Madison, Wis., in the sixties. They ran a Triumph TR-4 with good results for Jim Spencer. Span did run a Lotus 23 in 1963. It was entered in the Road America 500 that year for Spencer and Dick Buedingen. If memory serves, a big if, I seem to recall that the car was gray.

Tom

Edited by RA Historian, 27 May 2010 - 23:48.

[raceannouncer2003]

Michael

As for the Harold Brown photo, I believe it is the following:

10th Running Davidson Races, National Event (Davidson National Race), Davidson, Saskatchewan Date: 21.5.1967
DNF #814 Harold Brown Lotus 23B LSCC (Lethbridge Sports Car Club) Class 9M Qualified 5th overall

Let me know if you'd like some more photos of the Brown car.

As for the Challman/Jim Clark Lotus 23, see post 34 on the following link:

http://forums.autosp...showtopic=91159

In that post from November of 2006, Nick Smith states "Challmans car is 23/S/64 is currently in the Phillipines and hopefully back here in CA in the near future. It was the Ecurie Shirley/challman team car." So apparently this was one of Challman's cars. Was this the Clark that we are looking for?

According to the following link, Steve Young will be racing 23/S/64 at Sonoma in group 5A:

http://generalracing...URDAYGROUPS.pdf

Mike Summers, it might be worth a trip to Sonoma to talk to Young. I see Nick Smith is also entered in his car 23/S/18 (ex-Mason O'Keiff?)

Vince H.

Edited by raceannouncer2003, 28 May 2010 - 05:45.

[Michael Oliver]

Michael,

I believe that the Span International mentioned is the Span Motors that existed in Madison, Wis., in the sixties. They ran a Triumph TR-4 with good results for Jim Spencer. Span did run a Lotus 23 in 1963. It was entered in the Road America 500 that year for Spencer and Dick Buedingen. If memory serves, a big if, I seem to recall that the car was gray.

Tom

Tom

That's really interesting, thanks. Maybe Challman bought the grey Span car? Span ordered two cars, another being a white 23B with twin-cam, arriving April 1963. I haven't had a chance to look at the dates but might this have been the Curt Gonstead car? I have photos of this car (and it was white) competing in the Spring Races at Meadowdale, think Gonstead only raced it for one year then maybe to Bob Shaw for 1964?

Michael

[Michael Oliver]

Michael and all. I ran into Gene DeRulle this weekend at a car show. He worked at Challmans during that time period and crewed on the 23 that Clark drove at Riverside. From his memory, he said that Challman knew that the Arciero Lotus 19 that Clark was supposed to drive would probably never run for long, so he bought a "used" Lotus 23 to have as a back up. Gene told me that he and friends cleaned up the 23 and made it as raceable as possible in just a few days. That story was confirmed by Dave Thielke, Challmans General Manager. During a lunch, Dave told me that after Clark drove the 23, it sat for several months in the dealership. One day, Challman told him to load up the car and meet the "new" owner near the airport in Phoenix. Dave met the guy, handed over the car, and drove back home. Unfortunatly Dave cannot remember the new owners name. The mystery continues. So, based on this info, it was not a new car.

ms

Mike

Thanks for clarifying that story. I will look out for new 23 owners in the Phoenix (Arizona?) area in late 1963/early 1964!

Michael

[Michael Oliver]

Michael

As for the Harold Brown photo, I believe it is the following:

10th Running Davidson Races, National Event (Davidson National Race), Davidson, Saskatchewan Date: 21.5.1967
DNF #814 Harold Brown Lotus 23B LSCC (Lethbridge Sports Car Club) Class 9M Qualified 5th overall

Let me know if you'd like some more photos of the Brown car.

As for the Challman/Jim Clark Lotus 23, see post 34 on the following link:

http://forums.autosp...showtopic=91159

In that post from November of 2006, Nick Smith states "Challmans car is 23/S/64 is currently in the Phillipines and hopefully back here in CA in the near future. It was the Ecurie Shirley/challman team car." So apparently this was one of Challman's cars. Was this the Clark that we are looking for?

According to the following link, Steve Young will be racing 23/S/64 at Sonoma in group 5A:

http://generalracing...URDAYGROUPS.pdf

Mike Summers, it might be worth a trip to Sonoma to talk to Young. I see Nick Smith is also entered in his car 23/S/18 (ex-Mason O'Keiff?)

Vince H.

Vince

Thanks for the ID and offer of more photos of the Brown car, I may take you up on that one at a later date.

I think 23-S-64 might be too early to be a candidate for the Clark car (delivered/invoiced 11/01/63), also it was red and had an 1100cc engine, whereas the Clark car had a 1600cc twin-cam. I think we might possibly have ID'd the car in question, or at least established that it was a secondhand car rather than a new one.

Might still be worth a trip to Sonoma to find out more of the history of 23-S-64 though and, indeed, the ex-Mason O'Keiff car, as that is a really early chassis.

Michael

[RA Historian]

Tom

That's really interesting, thanks. Maybe Challman bought the grey Span car? Span ordered two cars, another being a white 23B with twin-cam, arriving April 1963. I haven't had a chance to look at the dates but might this have been the Curt Gonstead car? I have photos of this car (and it was white) competing in the Spring Races at Meadowdale, think Gonstead only raced it for one year then maybe to Bob Shaw for 1964?

Michael

Michael,
Entirely possible. Curt Gonstead was a chiropractor from a small town about 20 miles from Madison and Span Motors. He undoubtedly knew and was friends with Jim Spencer of Span. It is logical that his white 23 was purchased from Span. Gonstead is still around somewhere, met him a few years ago at the Road America Historics. I will try to track him down to verify.

Tom

[Mike Summers]

Here's where things get sticky.........while I was searching to buy a 23, I found Challmans personal car 23-S-64, was for sale in the Phillipines owned by Andres St. Maria. I did some research on the car with the intention on buying it from Andres. My first stop was with Bill Steagal, 23 listmaster here in the US. Based on Bill's files and several photos I dug up we believe, and still do, that 23-S-64 was Challmans personal car, white in color. Shortly after my research, Andrea sold the car to a business associate locally. If there is a 23-S-64 car number at Infineon next week then Challmans ex car has either made it's way to the West Coast or..................

I think the 23-S-04 car might be Skip Quains. His is a very early car, painted red, once driven by Sir Jack, and carries #4.

ms

PS, I think we kinda highjacked Daves thread...............sorry Dave.

[Michael Oliver]

Michael,
Entirely possible. Curt Gonstead was a chiropractor from a small town about 20 miles from Madison and Span Motors. He undoubtedly knew and was friends with Jim Spencer of Span. It is logical that his white 23 was purchased from Span. Gonstead is still around somewhere, met him a few years ago at the Road America Historics. I will try to track him down to verify.

Tom

Tom

I believe I did manage to find contact details for Curt Gonstead, something to do with a motorcycle club, IIRC. I'll let you know if I can't find them in my filing system! Glad you were able to shed some light on Span, that's been bugging me for ages...

Michael

[raceannouncer2003]

From Kathie McLean regarding Bob McLean's Lotus 23B:

"...I will see what I can come up with re the Lotus . It was a light blue colour when it came on the ship, and they began stripping it down day one, for re painting. I think I still have an old movie showing it coming out of the hold. I'll do my best for you. Kathie."

I've also asked Kathie if she has a record of its date of arrival.

Vince H.

[Michael Oliver]

From Kathie McLean regarding Bob McLean's Lotus 23B:

"...I will see what I can come up with re the Lotus . It was a light blue colour when it came on the ship, and they began stripping it down day one, for re painting. I think I still have an old movie showing it coming out of the hold. I'll do my best for you. Kathie."

I've also asked Kathie if she has a record of its date of arrival.

Vince H.

Vince

Thanks for that - great digging! Wow, that would be amazing if Kathie still had the movie of it arriving! Light blue then? I'll have to have a think about any cars racing in the UK in late 1963 in light blue, driven by a works Lotus driver...

Michael

Edited by Michael Oliver, 30 May 2010 - 08:13.

[RA Historian]

Tom

I believe I did manage to find contact details for Curt Gonstead, something to do with a motorcycle club, IIRC. I'll let you know if I can't find them in my filing system! Glad you were able to shed some light on Span, that's been bugging me for ages...

Michael

Just talked to Curt Gonstead. He bought his 23 from Pete Ledwith, who ran a race shop in Highland Park, Ill. He did not buy it from Span, so the identity of the white 23 at Span remains a mystery.
Tom

[raceannouncer2003]

More from Kathie McLean about Bob McLean's Lotus 23B:

"I have not found the exact date the 23B arrived yet, if in fact I can even find it. I do know it must have been either January, February or March of l964. I found the old 8mm movie reels looking for any clue re dates. The movie I took of the car coming out of the hold says, arrival of Lotus 23 B l964. I remember it was very cold at least early in the a.m. and worrying about dropping the movie camera into the hold, luckily I managed not to do that! In the scrapbooks, there was mention of 2 weeks before the opening date of the 64 season, Bob had had a quick test run. Also, according to the paper clipping of Mar. 18th l964 this quick time was mentioned. As old as I am now, I can only imagine it would have arrived in January of February, as it was immediately taken to the garage near out apartment, taken apart and I believe the next morning it was in the paint shop, once it was an acceptable colour, the panels ended up in our apartment where they began putting them back together again. I have yet to look into the bit of paperwork I have left so I will check there and update you then. I will never forget that blue-gray car coming into view. Sorry I can't be more specific than that. Kathie."

Vince H.

[raceannouncer2003]

This from Gord Swanson, who helped with Bob McLean's Lotus 23B:

"I know that Bob's 23B had a Cosworth Twin Cam Ford engine. I believe that John Pledger was intrumental in obtaining the car and having it shipped. I do not know the numbers though..."

Vince H.

[raceannouncer2003]

This from George Chapman in Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada, who was Canadian champion in 1966 in a Lotus 23, which I believe was 23/S/119:

"...With regard to your Lotus 23 questions, I do not know what has happened to my old Lotus 23 that was restored by Gil Nickel, but Gil Nickel did an outstanding job of running my old car and won the 2 leader championship in Europe, about 1996.

My car was sold to Maurice McCaig after my championship season in 1966, and I do not know Chassis number or where the old McLean/Brown 23 is at the present time.

With respect to other 23’s, I do not know about the Al Pease/Nat Adams car, and I was not aware they had one.

With respect to Phil Smyth’s car, it was sold to a Torontonian in 1965 and I raced against the car several times in 1965 and 1966...

Regarding Maurice and Roger McCaig, Maurice purchased my car, and subsequently sold it to a series of drivers, and it wound up being restored by Gil Nickel. Roger McCaig bought a 23 C and raced it for one year, and I do not know what happened to it.

I would suggest you try reaching Maurice McCaig through Tri-Mac Head office in Calgary. Maurice is one of the senior principals of that company, and is still active in vintage racing...

Yours sincerely,

George E. Chapman"

[David Birchall]

I owned 23s/119 in the mid eighties and talked to George Chapman about it. I sold the car to Nino Epifani who restored it for Gil Nickel but by then it had a new chassis and body.

[David McKinney]

Confirming the plate on Nickel's car in Europe was 23S119. Didn't realise it had a replacement chassis and body though

About the same time Chris Locke was racing a car with the same number in California. Was he a Nickel associate, or had he bought the original chassis and body...?

[David Birchall]

David, I had the new chassis made by Archie Hodge of Seattle. Archie has posted on TNF. The body I got from Peter Denty. I sold the car to Nino Epifani as a pile of bits.
When I acquired the car it had a McLaren body from George Eaton's car and a Pinto engine with a six speed Hewland. I paid $2500 for the car complete with four wheel trailer... It had a complete history here in Western Canada.

[RA Historian]

Confirming the plate on Nickel's car in Europe was 23S119. Didn't realise it had a replacement chassis and body though

About the same time Chris Locke was racing a car with the same number in California. Was he a Nickel associate, or had he bought the original chassis and body...?

Here we go, David! Sounds like not only "Grandpa's hammer", but also the race car equivalent of early biology; that is, a cell divides itself into two, then into four...
Tom

[David Birchall]

No! I think we need to end this right here. The bodywork was destroyed in a somersaulting crash at Westwood in the late sixties/early seventies. The chassis was so badly repaired that Archie Hodge declared it unsalvagable and scrapped it in the mid eighties during my ownership. If somebody was running another car in California with this number-and I have never heard of this before- it was a complete fake or misappropriation of the chassis number.

[David McKinney]

Which kinda confirms what I thought

[Mike Summers]

Has anyone heard of a mid sixties racer from the Phoenix area, Richard/Robert Hoage or Hogue?? Possibly a Lotus 23 owner??

MIke

[raceannouncer2003]

Has anyone heard of a mid sixties racer from the Phoenix area, Richard/Robert Hoage or Hogue?? Possibly a Lotus 23 owner??

MIke

From the Competition Press report on the Phoenix FIA National Open at Phoenix, April 19, 1964: "...In the 2-liter class, Pikes Peak expert Bobby Unser, driving raceway manager Dick Hogue's Lotus 23-B, ran fourth overall and lead the small-bore class until a minor collision resulted in the loss of a valve stem and a flat tire..."

I can't find any other reference to Hogue with the Lotus 23-B, but here is a link to some race results for a Dick Hogue:

http://www.racingspo...-Hogue-USA.html

They show a Richard P. Hogue in Milwaukee, Wis. in 1958, then in Sacramento in 1959 and 1960. Maybe he moved to Phoenix after that? There are other references to him as Phoenix International Raceway track manager.

Vince H.

[Michael Oliver]

I think we can stop worrying about going OT on David's thread, as I've just read on the Lotus 23 forum that he has sold his car...

Vince, how do you find this stuff so quickly?! Great job...

Mike, is this our man that Dave T couldn't remember the name of? If so, it takes it forwards a little bit more at least!

Michael

[Mike Summers]

Vince

This may well be the person I am seeking for history on a particular race car. A quick search of the Phoenix phone book did not help. I spoke with a rep at Phoenix Raceway and got little help. She said the raceway has changed hands several times over the years "and I am sure our corporate offices would not have that information". I have a email into the SCCA chapter in that area also. Can anyone out there assist?? The whereabouts of Dick Hogue, racer, track manager????

Mike Summers

[RA Historian]

They show a Richard P. Hogue in Milwaukee, Wis. in 1958, then in Sacramento in 1959 and 1960. Maybe he moved to Phoenix after that? There are other references to him as Phoenix International Raceway track manager.

Vince H.

I believe that you are right, Vince. There was a Dick Hogue racing SCCA in the Milwaukee area in the mid to late 1950s. I saw him race a Volkswagen Karmann-Ghia (!) in a club race in 1956, then a white Ferrari 500 TR at an SCCA Regional in 1957. Yes, I agree, that is a bit of a jump in machinery. I seem to recall that he moved west and did a stint at Phoenix Raceway as general manager. This ties in with your observation.
Tom

[Rupertlt1]

Mike

Thanks for clarifying that story. I will look out for new 23 owners in the Phoenix (Arizona?) area in late 1963/early 1964!

Michael

 

Last week Unser flew his own

plane to PIR, landed on the

drag strip and spent a day

testing the Lotus in which

World Champion Jimmy Clark

of Scotland won last October's

Los Angeles Times Grand Prix.

Arizona Republic, Saturday 18 Apr 1964, Page 12

 

Phoenix International Raceway, 19 April 1964

Rick Muther, Laguna Beach, Cal, Lotus 23

"Indianapolis veteran Bobby

Unser, driving track owner

Dick Hogue's Lotus 23B, was

racing in good position but blew

a tire after two-thirds of the

race and was out of competi-

tion."

Arizona Republic, Monday 20 Apr 1964, Page 6

 

https://www.racingsp...-Hogue-USA.html

 

Hogue at PIR, 16.2.64? Shortly retired from race driving?

 

Phoenix International Raceway, S.C.C.A., 25 April 1965

F/M—#44 Frank Monise, Lotus 23

G/M—Richard Erikson, Lotus 23

E/M—Jim Paul, Lotus 23

Phoenix Gazette, Monday 26 Apr 1965, Page 32

 

LOTUS 23B—1600cc Hewland 5-speed

with extra ratios. Ex Jimmy Clark River-

side car. One race since tear down. First

$5000 offer gets this bargain. Better

hurry. Richard Hogue, 5201 Saddlerock

dr., Phoenix, Ariz.; WH 6-9807.

 

LOTUS 23—5 speed Hewland. 1100cc or

1500cc Ford engine, excellent condition.

new tires. Edna Sherman, 2738 Zuni st.,

Denver, Colo.; (303) 433-5001

 

Both Competition Press, May 23—June 12, 1964, Page 11.

 

Who are these at Riverside, 30 October 1966?

https://library.revs...iverside/321686

#61 John Stuhldreier (Portland) Rich Erickson (Manhattan Beach, California)? #66 Bill Molle (SoCal)?

Stuhldreier raced at Westwood, B.C., Canada, Pepsi Pro Invitational, 2 October 1966.

 

Also of interest, #76:

https://library.revs...iverside/294986

 

Riverside, ARRC, 27 Nov 1966

D—Dan Parkinson, Lotus 23, DNF [Climax?]

D—Ed Luke (Phoenix) Lotus 23-Buick [Chevrolet?]

F—Paul Jett (San Antonio) Lotus 23B

The Los Angeles Times, Mon 28 Nov 1966, Page 51

 

RGDS RLT 

Edited by Rupertlt1, 22 February 2023 - 07:49.

[Rupertlt1]

The 23/Climax mentioned above as advertised for sale in Mississippi should be easy to identify, as the ad in question states that the car is "ex-London Racing Show car with only aluminum body made." The seller was Sid Kelly.

 

De Soto Airport, Mansfield, Louisiana, Labor Day, Monday 3 September 1962

Running against Schroeder in

F-Modified will be a Lotus 23,

freshly imported from England

and new to this course as well as

to many in the nation. It will

be driven by Sid Kelly of Jack-

son, Miss.

The Shreveport Journal, Wednesday 29 Aug 1962, Page 20

 

Did it have a Ford motor on arrival? See:

https://forums.autosport.com/topic/192828-lotus-23s-raced-in-the-southern-us-in-the-early-60s/#entry6672205

 

What capacity is F-Modified? When and where is the original advertisement?

 

Lotus 23 — 1500 Climax DOHC FPF en-

gine; Mk 2 pistons and rods; Porsche 718

transaxle; 5 speed; limited slip differ-

ential; 3 spare transmission ratios; 8

wheels; numerous other spares. This is

the ex-London racing show car with only

aluminum body made. Picture on request.

Sid Kelly, Robert E. Lee Hotel, Jackson,

Miss.; (601) 372-4109 or 353-1661.

Competition Press, Aug 8-21, 1964, etc.

 

There is quite a gap between the Racing Car Show and the arrival in Mississippi? Long enough to have been raced in England? Was it converted to a Coventry-Climax engine in the UK? (This is quite a sophisticated conversion for a nightclub operator in Jackson, Miss?)

Note: this is not a V8 engine?

 

At the Racing Car Show, 1962:

https://mydadsphotos.../10106/comments

No sign of a Climax engine?

 

Kelly still had a Lotus 23, at a Gymkhana, in March 1965:

"In the modified car class, Sid

Kelly won in a Lotus 23 and

tied for overall winner."

Clarion-Ledger, Jackson, Mississippi, Thursday 25 Mar 1965, Page 20

 

Lakes Charles, Louisiana, National S.C.C.A., 3-4 April 1965

"Sid Kelly entered his Lotus

23 but was unable to run be-

cause of mechanical difficulties."

Clarion-Ledger, Jackson, Mississippi, Friday 9 Apr 1965, Page 6

 

Gus Hutchison also ran at this meeting with his F-Mod Lotus 23 — so is that an overlap or a sale?

 

RGDS RLT

Edited by Rupertlt1, 02 February 2023 - 16:50.