75 replies to this topic

[shanser]

a new elment to this years strategy....
why the difference in the top drivers Q3 times when their pace in Q2 was much much quicker....

[BigWicks]

I reckon some people are taking bigger compromises with raceday set up than others

[carbonfibre]

Just bring back old style 12 laps quali for gods sake.

How much longer do we have to go through all these rubbish qualifying formats.....

[wewantourdarbyback]

It makes the bluster about Fred and Schumi being out qualified today all the more stupid. No one knows if any of the drivers took it easier in preparation for tomorrow.

[King Six]

I don't know how much of a handicap it is for those at the top (big four) but for those in the middle who will take positions like 9th/10th (Renault, Force India, Williams) it's unfair as the guys just behind them in Q2 positions are at an advantage.

I think what Sutil did today was probably the most reasonable for teams in that situation, I think he was the only guy in Q3 to go out and do a lap with hards.

I wouldn't be surprised if those teams would just qualify for Q3 and then not even bother to waste the tyre by going out and accepting P10 and such with fresh tyres... unless they were sure of being able to break the top eight in qualifying trim...

The whole 'Top eight starting on relatively worn out Softs and max fuel, and the rest starting on fresh hards and max fuel' should be interesting though. It'll be a huge learning experience of everyone, how this race works out like that.

[EthanM]

Track changed alot from Q1 to Q3, it got a lot hotter and more slippery.

As to strategies, it's easier to block the guy behind you even if your tyres are worn than it is to overtake the guy ahead of you. The whole no refueling thing took the in race strategy element completely off the equation, and placed even more importance on quali.

[MikeTekRacing]

the session was ok, the director was poor
extremely bad coverage of cars and bad display of times.
lve timing was dead for me and I had to look on the live forum to understasnd what is going on
unacceptable, you will not attract any new fans this way...if it's so difficult for somebody who knows the sport to understand what is going on around

[harrys]

I agree, the old 12 lap qualifying was much better. Let cars go on whatever fuel and tyres they want, and change their setup before the race. I never really understood why they have parc ferme after qualifying, seems a bit random.

[ViMaMo]

Even if its old quali format, the no of tires is gonna be the same.
There was no speed trap info !!
And where did the ghost car (fastest car) disappear? We had it a few years ago and it was great

[the9th]

It all just makes me wanna puke.
We didn't need these tire rules... What now, tire-adjusted, set-up-adjusted times?
We don't need Bernie. Go away Bernie. Free air is the way to go to attract sponsors. You little BASTARD!

[OSX]

Just bring back old style 12 laps quali for gods sake.

How much longer do we have to go through all these rubbish qualifying formats.....

Ditto.

[arknor]

I reckon some people are taking bigger compromises with raceday set up than others

yea the old format was only dropped because the lack of action on the track until the last 20 minutes but now we have more teams it wouldnt be an issue

[Lights]

I don't get the poll. Setup changes aside, they will all go for it. Pole is way more important then 2% better tyres at the start of the race.

[Raincoat]

I find tyre rule about using the same tyre pathetic! Actually the whole refuelling is about not racing all out but managing ones tyres. I have always been dead set against stupid no refuelling! Its going to be a complete joke now, with drivers being conservative hoping to manage their stints. It was sad when Lewis saying he should not push hard all the way but instead steady his pace to keep his tyres

[mclarensmps]

Just bring back old style 12 laps quali for gods sake.

How much longer do we have to go through all these rubbish qualifying formats.....

Yes yes yes yes yes.

[wingwalker]

Is it confirmed by teams/drivers that they were easy on the tires in Q3? It could be track getting too hot. It's just one lap, tires will have to much longer than that during the race, obviously, so It's dubious to me drivers would choose to loose couple of places at the start in hope of tiny bit of additional performance during the race. Qualifying high is still easiest way of overtaking in F1 and defending position during the race is way easier than overtaking.

edit: oh and I take the current format over the 12 laps, easily.

Edited by wingwalker, 13 March 2010 - 16:21.

[arknor]

edit: oh and I take the current format over the 12 laps, easily.

but we will never get proper epic qualifying duels like we used to.

monaco 96 comes to my mind as one of the great qualy sessions i cant find the proper video on youtube but damon and michael were trading fastest laps for some time and then this happened

Edited by arknor, 13 March 2010 - 16:33.

[Risil]

One lap qualifying was quite exciting (if occasionally horrendously unfair), the old 'timed practice' style was very good too. The current setup and to a lesser extent 12-lap were are absurd compromises.

I'd rather be talking about the race, though...

[EthanM]

I don't get the whole 12 lap argument, it was a boring setup. Nothing happened for 45 minutes then everybody went out, did banzai laps, half the people ended up complaining they were blocked and ... what?

Current format is fine and if people think anybody at the front sandbags qualifying I think they don't really understand the sport at all. You can argue about the point of being forced to use quali tyres for the race but really, aside from somebody really destroying their tyres (meaning flatspoting etc) I really don't see it being a problem. The tyres are after all optimized for long runs not glory quali laps.

[mclarensmps]

I don't get the whole 12 lap argument, it was a boring setup. Nothing happened for 45 minutes then everybody went out, did banzai laps, half the people ended up complaining they were blocked and ... what?

It's not hard to fix the "no action for 45 minutes" thing; just mandate that you need to do a minimum of 3 laps every 15 minutes or something

[soca]

yes some will try to presere their tyres

[Ellios]

This year is no better than last, it's still a skewed format that doesn't work. As mentioned 8, 9 & 10th positions needn't bother going out for Q3 at all. Although I'll bet a new rule will be there PDQ to make they do run Q3....

everyone wants to see the fastest at the front, but the FIA (and teams) always want to twist it out of shape by just enough...... because it's what the fans want to see...

it wouldn't take much tweaking to put right

[phil1993]

The current

Q1 - 20 mins
Q2 - 15 mins
Q3 - 10 mins

Is great, but, can we please have low fuel, as many tyres as you like, Q3. Please...

[Andy865]

The current

Q1 - 20 mins
Q2 - 15 mins
Q3 - 10 mins

Is great, but, can we please have low fuel, as many tyres as you like, Q3. Please...

Thats exactly what we've got?

[Anomnader]

Q1 is a waste of time, they might aswell just send the new teams out on there own, its pointless.

[phil1993]

I mean, qualify without having to use the set of tyres for the start of the race. As it stands, Sutil could find himself in a very good position...

[Les]

This new rule seems to be a bit of a faux-pas I hope they can get rid of it as soon as possible,

[Just waiting]

All those who voted it will be boring....were right enough

[tifosi]

Question;

Are you allowed to change tires in Q3? Or do you have to use the same set the entire time?

[Anomnader]

Question;

Are you allowed to change tires in Q3? Or do you have to use the same set the entire time?

Can change tyres, use options and hards, but the set you set your best time on is the set you start the race on.

[plastik2k9]

Question;

Are you allowed to change tires in Q3? Or do you have to use the same set the entire time?

You can change tyres, to either soft or hard, as many times as you can with the tyres you have available. But you must start the race on the set of tyres you set your fastest lap with. At least this is my understanding, do correct me if I'm wrong.

EDIT: Beaten to it I see, but there's confirmation

Edited by plastik2k9, 13 March 2010 - 17:53.

[Jamesy]

Can't tell if people have compromised for a heavier fuel load tomorrow or not, it keeps us guessing.

But seriously-what the heck? Last year everybody was moaning that the fastest guy wasn't on pole because they had to carry race fuel, yadda, yadda, now they've changed it and people still moan. If it's that bad, don't watch it.

[Dalton007]

Can change tyres, use options and hards, but the set you set your best time on is the set you start the race on.

I hate the tyre rule, why should a fast driver be penalised for being fast? DUMB.

Let's go back to 12 laps and reduce the time to 45 minutes.

[tifosi]

But you must start the race on the set of tyres you set your fastest lap with. At least this is my understanding, do correct me if I'm wrong.

EDIT: Beaten to it I see, but there's confirmation

Awww, Ohkay, cause I was wondering why they didn't run out on softs set a lap, then at the very end slap on some hards and do one lap.

[Clatter]

Just bring back old style 12 laps quali for gods sake.

How much longer do we have to go through all these rubbish qualifying formats.....

The format itself is great, much better than the 12 lap format. The only problem is they keep spoiling it with stupid compromises.

[froggy22]

Can't tell if people have compromised for a heavier fuel load tomorrow or not, it keeps us guessing.

But seriously-what the heck? Last year everybody was moaning that the fastest guy wasn't on pole because they had to carry race fuel, yadda, yadda, now they've changed it and people still moan. If it's that bad, don't watch it.

good point. just seems like with some people, F1 just cant win

[Sausage]

Can't tell if people have compromised for a heavier fuel load tomorrow or not, it keeps us guessing.

But seriously-what the heck? Last year everybody was moaning that the fastest guy wasn't on pole because they had to carry race fuel, yadda, yadda, now they've changed it and people still moan. If it's that bad, don't watch it.

Vettel fanboy! , just joking. Very agreed with what you said. I thought it was good enough today, let's see how it will be in the next races too.

[Scorf]

It's not hard to fix the "no action for 45 minutes" thing; just mandate that you need to do a minimum of 3 laps every 15 minutes or something

But then that surely makes it as contrived as the current format...!!

Personsally, and I know I'll be shouted down for it, I preferred the single lap, one shot, one driver after another type qualy.

At least then I got to see every lap of every driver, instead of who the TV producer wants me to see!

The occassional cock up added some spice to the grid, my only change would be to base the running order on championship positions, making the leader go first

Fire away!!

[mclarensmps]

Can't tell if people have compromised for a heavier fuel load tomorrow or not, it keeps us guessing.

But seriously-what the heck? Last year everybody was moaning that the fastest guy wasn't on pole because they had to carry race fuel, yadda, yadda, now they've changed it and people still moan. If it's that bad, don't watch it.

Erm... the fastest guy is still not fastest in this setup, because you have to save your qually tyres for the race...

good point. just seems like with some people, F1 just cant win

Yes it can. They just had to stick to what they originally planned for this year instead of adding the ridiculous top 10 qually-race tyre amendment 0

But then that surely makes it as contrived as the current format...!!

Personsally, and I know I'll be shouted down for it, I preferred the single lap, one shot, one driver after another type qualy.

At least then I got to see every lap of every driver, instead of who the TV producer wants me to see!

The occassional cock up added some spice to the grid, my only change would be to base the running order on championship positions, making the leader go first

Fire away!!

;)

It's kinda contrived I guess, but it's kinda best of both worlds, too.

I'd dig single lap qualifying, as long as it was done on low fuel, and you could discard the tyres after the qually.

[Pampalini]

I agree, the old 12 lap qualifying was much better. Let cars go on whatever fuel and tyres they want, and change their setup before the race. I never really understood why they have parc ferme after qualifying, seems a bit random.

[schuey100]

I have no doubt that we'll see sessions this year where drivers don't go out so that they can start on the tyre they want to. It makes sense and I'm amazed Sutil didn't do it, same with Kubica and Schumacher. A bit of a mistake from them I think.

[King Six]

Can't tell if people have compromised for a heavier fuel load tomorrow or not, it keeps us guessing.

But seriously-what the heck? Last year everybody was moaning that the fastest guy wasn't on pole because they had to carry race fuel, yadda, yadda, now they've changed it and people still moan. If it's that bad, don't watch it.

What most people want is simple qualifying. Fastest people win. None of that race fuel nonsense, or race tyre nonsense. For a long time everyone thought this season would have just regular qualifying on fumes and soft tyres and drivers giving it everything they have, people were happy, and then they throw in that race tyre crap late on.

I can see how it makes things interesting. Because naturally all the front runners want pole position so they'll all go on softs which spices things up as they inevitably have to lap earlier than others further behind on hards during the race, especially with max fuel loads. But it's rather artificial...however the more I think about it, the less stupid it becomes, I'll admit that.

I still think it's abit unfair to the likes of Renault/Force India/Williams and such who will quite regularly get into Q3 but not necessarily into the top eight.

[Hairpin]

As I understand, they can not re-fuel during Q3? If so, they just basically get one lap. Is any setup changes allowed after qualifying? Must they start on the same tires they set the time with, or the same compound?

[alfa1]

For those wanting the old 1 hour system, remember that it doesnt make good TV because of poor directors.
I recall too many sessions where a driver would put in a blindingly quick lap that we didnt see, and the director would switch to this guy on his slowdown lap. Meanwhile somebody else would be putting in a quick lap that we didnt see, and the and the director would switch to this guy on his slowdown lap. Meanwhile somebody else would be putting in a quick lap that we didnt see, and the and the director would switch to this guy on his slowdown lap. etcetera

[TecnoRacing]

Tire rule needs to be killed...

And they shouldn't have to run full-race fuel ride heights in the qualifying session...

[Hairpin]

For those wanting the old 1 hour system, remember that it doesnt make good TV because of poor directors.
I recall too many sessions where a driver would put in a blindingly quick lap that we didnt see, and the director would switch to this guy on his slowdown lap. Meanwhile somebody else would be putting in a quick lap that we didnt see, and the and the director would switch to this guy on his slowdown lap. Meanwhile somebody else would be putting in a quick lap that we didnt see, and the and the director would switch to this guy on his slowdown lap. etcetera

Now all ten are running at exactly the same time and the the TV screen has no info at all, I felt zero excitement. We could see Vettel do a good lap and after it was all over we saw that Massa and Alonso did ok as well. Let them at least keep the best time from any session, it should be possible to set pole in Q1 already.

[Bouncing Pink Ball]

The current qualifying style would be fine, IMO, if that silly new tire rule was dropped. I know why it's been done – increased potential for passing – but the result is that midgrid teams are sort of punished for getting into Q3. They'll often be sitting on the grid in used tires while similarly paced cars with fresh tires of their choice slot in right behind them.

I can definitely see those teams debating the value of fresh/choice of compound tires versus a shot at a slightly higher grid position, even more so as the season progresses and the field tightens up.

[pingu666]

i quite like the current format actully, we get way more action than in the past, the cars do atleast two runs in each session. the old 12 laps had more of a build up, but that build up was more about persepetion than reality...

allowing setup changes might be good tho,

[VAR1016]

but we will never get proper epic qualifying duels like we used to.

monaco 96 comes to my mind as one of the great qualy sessions i cant find the proper video on youtube but damon and michael were trading fastest laps for some time and then this happened

I think that the current qualifying format is rubbish.

I liked it as it was - years ago I mean. They had an hour and despite what has been written here I used frequently to find the qualifying session more exciting than the race.

Since they have to save their tyres to start the race, we get only one quick lap per driver plus as someone pointed out, race - i.e. full fuel - setup. All nonsense. Parc fermé indeed -

Just watch the video Arknor posted; will we see that sort of thing again?

No we won't.

Edited by VAR1016, 13 March 2010 - 22:07.

[salamin]

I would rather say that Q1 is boring, since it's obvious the new teams will get the last 6 positions ... here we go 2-tier CC