155 replies to this topic

[Velocifer]

I understand all teams have to start somewhere, but I actually felt sad watching the opening 2010 event with these shoestring teams joining and running 5-10s slower and crashing after a few laps, it was like the sport I love was sullied and something lost.

From last years with more and more manufacturers and professional teams joining and closing the field to just a few seconds and hardly any cars breaking down it was like watching another series this year.

How did it come to this?

Edited by Velocifer, 15 March 2010 - 16:16.

[Buttoneer]

Lotus did an incredibly good job and Virgin is trying something that nobody else has tried before. HRT I'm undecided on because we just didn't see enough.

They're definitely not an embarrassment, they are the lifeblood of F1 and we need them.

[D.M.N.]

Every team starts from somewhere, don't they? The new teams in 5 years will be established. Some will inevitably drop out, new ones fill their places.

It's a constant rolling circle.

[Lights]

HRT was a little embarrassing this weekend, but overall, no.

[Gilles12]

I'm from the 80s and prequalifying

What we saw yesterday wasn't that bad

Lotus managed to get to the end

[Slackbladder]

Lotus looked ok. Remember it was only a few years ago Force India where at the back of pack and slow, and now they're a reasonable team. HRT are a bit too slow at the moment though.

[PanchoF1]

Lotus did its job perfectly, i.e. finish with both cars. Virgin's car is a new approach and it will be nice to see how it plays out. HRT basically had an extra practice day. I think its far too soon to judge the new teams, we shall have to wait a couple more races before they settle in. And as others have said, new teams take several seasons to develop.

[Snap Matt]

You can't treat them as a single group really. Lotus were a credit to themselves and the sport. Virgin have great looking cars and just need to get one to do a race distance. HRT... proved that what we take for granted isn't so easy.

Toyota and BMW were more of an embarrassment to F1 than any of these new teams so far.

[CaptainJackSparrow]

Here is the issue:

The old world of F1 (ie Ferrari and McLaren winning everything and taking turns at it) is boring as all hell and no one really wants that (outside of fans of those teams).

So we need more competition, but strong competition. The problem is the new teams are not able to do that and I doubt will for 5+ years.

Are they embarrassing? Sure, Virgin and Hispania are fumbling bumbling teams, and Lotus, whilst far more competent, are still very slow.

So I think the new teams are on balance, not a good step. Introducing weak teams has done nothing for the sport, the sport needs strong new powers to challenge Ferarri and McLaren, i doubt these teams will ever be the answer. On the other hand the big manufacturers were also seldom the answer, so in reality it's all a bit frakked, more of the same ol same ol for years to come I suspect.

[sadler]

The problem is Hamilton has brought a whole new wave of people following the sport who think its always been like this with the grid covered by 2 seconds!!!!!

To suggest that Lotus, Virgin and HRT are an embarrassment is an insult to the hard work that people have put in working for those teams. Lotus were only 2 seconds off the pace yesterday by the end of the race. Virgin were quicker than Lotus earlier in the race so its safe to assume that they would have put in a quicker time late on with a lower fuel load and as for HRT, to actually get to lap 17 was an achievement in itself considering the car had probably done less than 100 miles in its entire existence!!!

People need to remember how things used to be.

Give the new teams, and F1, time to adapt to the new rules instead of this 'F1 is dead' attitude after one Grand Prix!

[pingu666]

i only watched the highlights of the race, but they seemed to produce the best racing, so no

[wingwalker]

I'll be rude but all the people voting 'yes' can shove their vote up their arses as far as I'm concerned. New teams are bending themselves over to compete so obviously they set a lot slower times, especially so early. But it's still great to have them on the grid (how having Gascoyne on the grid might be anything else than awesome?). Plus, it;s been always like that, last seasons were unusual, not the other way around.

[MegaManson]

The problem is the stupid in season testing ban, the new teams are going to have to use the races and practices and qualifying as test sessions while the better funded teams like McLaren, Ferrari, Merc etc will develop stronger as they have the simulators, windtunnels and state of the art factories to be competitive so as the season goes on HRT in particular will fall even further back as will Virgin

[Kooper]

HRT was a little embarrassing this weekend, but overall, no.

I voted no but I think this should be the last time a team starts a race never having tested their car.

[Uwe]

To suggest that Lotus, Virgin and HRT are an embarrassment is an insult to the hard work that people have put in working for those teams. Lotus were only 2 seconds off the pace yesterday by the end of the race. Virgin were quicker than Lotus earlier in the race so its safe to assume that they would have put in a quicker time late on with a lower fuel load and as for HRT, to actually get to lap 17 was an achievement in itself considering the car had probably done less than 100 miles in its entire existence!!!

Couldn't have said it better.

[Gilles12]

HRT need to change their name

If you don't know what I'm refering Google it

[CaptainJackSparrow]

At the end of the day, for things to be entertaining, teams need to be on the same level.

Either Ferrari, McLaren etc come down to their level or these new teams come up to a Ferrari/McLaren level.

TBH it's hard to see either happening.

[march781]

Couldn't have said it better.

My own sentiments exactly. Personally, I have nothing but admiration for all three teams that made it to Bahrain. The amount of effort put into getting onto the grid is worthy of applause, and instead of slagging these teams off all true racing fans should, IMHO, be praising their efforts. A huge well done to everyone involved.............

[Sausage]

This kind of poll will be more valid after the final race as they all had a good weekend just for being there this time. I really don't see any of the new teams improving much. A whole season being +6 seconds down will even shake the most positive persons

[Clatter]

Minardi at times were just as bad, but they were viewed as the plucky little Italian team. No one said they were an embarrassment. The new teams have done an incredible job in starting with nothing and making it to the grid in half a year, they should be applauded and encouraged.

[stonebutter]

Toyota and BMW were more of an embarrassment to F1 than any of these new teams so far.

Not sure I follow. BMW had a modest budget and made significant progress 3 out of 4 seasons on the grid including a victory, how is that embarassing? 2009 fell way short of expectations and the luxury car market was getting slaughtered - tough to justify the cost.

The problem is how these teams are being approved. How Campos gets approved and Prodrive doesn't is a mystery. Virign and Lotus are fine - HRT was painful to watch.

Edited by stonebutter, 15 March 2010 - 17:18.

[Brian O Flaherty]

Lotus did an incredibly good job and Virgin is trying something that nobody else has tried before. HRT I'm undecided on because we just didn't see enough.

They're definitely not an embarrassment, they are the lifeblood of F1 and we need them.

I agree with this.

I also don't know how the OP can say "it was like the sport I love was sullied and something lost" or "How did it come to this?". There have been much worse new teams in the sport in the past. If anything, Lotus and Virgin were relatively competitive from a historical viewpoint. And as for HRT. Anyone who gives a Senna a chance gets leeway in my book.

[angst]

I think those that have voted yes must have a very narrow, and recent, view of F1.

[Youichi]

I voted no but I think this should be the last time a team starts a race never having tested their car.

Should I point out that Vettel's car had never turned a wheel before first practice ?

and if people think these teams are an emmbarrasement, I suggest they look into the Andrea Moda, and Life teams.

[Aubwi]

I've never quite seen it that way. The more teams F1 has, the more credibility it has, because there's more competition. It appears more honest and open and less political that way. Although I think they should be more willing to let the teams sit a few races out, and give them some way to circumvent the testing ban if they really need it. There's a real safety concern with wheels and wings falling off the cars that haven't been tested enough.

[VoidNT]

I understand sentiments about diverse grid, the lifeblood, the F1 spirit and tradition etc, but unfortunately must admit the new teams are an embarrassment at the moment. Perhaps not their fault, but anyway.

[Motormedia]

I think all the new teams performed beyond and above expectations given the circumstances. They went about it in a very professional manner and made progress all weekend through. They should be proud of themselves and they deserve all the support they can get. I found their participation very interesting and I followed their laptimes thoroughly. Above everything else, I think they bring an element to the sport that has been missing for a long time. I'm talking about the human element. We are not talking big, faceless corporations here with big anonymous departments going at it. The small teams brings some flesh and blood into the sport.

[Nustang70]

I understand all teams have to start somewhere, but I actually felt sad watching the opening 2010 event with these shoestring teams joining and running 5-10s slower and crashing after a few laps, it was like the sport I love was sullied and something lost.

From last years with more and more manufacturers and professional teams joining and closing the field to just a few seconds and hardly any cars breaking down it was like watching another series this year.

How did it come to this?

Parroting Ferrari...

[Grayson]

I'm glad to see how many people are voting no so far!

Lotus managed to get two cars to (pretty much) the finish - a better record than most teams managed in the first race of last year. They were lapping as fast as the established teams at some points during the race. Even HRT were lapping within 4 seconds of the teams at the front at one point during the race!

Most of the teams on the grid have had a few seasons towards the start of their history where they were 4 seconds off the pace. I wish the new teams luck, but there's no shame in fighting as hard as they can, but still being off the pace of teams with the resources of Ferrari and Mercedes!

[TheHakk]

For Lotus only to be 2 laps off the pace (ok it was a long lap) with a 2.02 for a fastest lap i thought was very creditable. You only have to back a few seasons for it to be common place for 6 or so cars to have been lapped at least twice!.

Virgin, at least Glock anyway, were clearly faster than Lotus whilst the car lastest. Although i fear they may never get on top of their reliability issues this season.

As for HRT, a heroic effort i felt all things considered. I think their car will be as quick as the other new team's cars with a few miles under the belt.

I was very glad the Beeb gave time to these new teams this weekend

So overall, definitely not an embarassment! F1 has had this sort of situation many times before and hasn't come off worse for it

[redevil]

Lotus did an incredibly good job and Virgin is trying something that nobody else has tried before. HRT I'm undecided on because we just didn't see enough.

They're definitely not an embarrassment, they are the lifeblood of F1 and we need them.

You are sayong Virging did an incredible good job. But I am sure your not comparing them to ferarri or any other major teams. You are saying that referring to their little world way in the back where they were with their own kind, in their separate series. The way i see it this F1 and team cannot be allowed to be days behind.

[Buss]

Lotus did very well all things considered.

The embarrassment yesterday was the procession like race.

[wewantourdarbyback]

I was genuinely proud of the Lotus lads by the end of the weekend. No way can you say the teams were an embarrassment unless you look from a ridiculously high horse. All three teams have done very well in a short space of time to go from nothing to cars on the grid.

[JDeRosa]

To suggest that Lotus, Virgin and HRT are an embarrassment is an insult to the hard work that people have put in working for those teams. Lotus were only 2 seconds off the pace yesterday by the end of the race. Virgin were quicker than Lotus earlier in the race so its safe to assume that they would have put in a quicker time late on with a lower fuel load and as for HRT, to actually get to lap 17 was an achievement in itself considering the car had probably done less than 100 miles in its entire existence!!!

People need to remember how things used to be.

Well said!! And can I just add, the track at Bahrain is very long, this exaggerated the gaps between the leaders and the backmarkers. I think it's great to see new teams, even HRT doing a shakedown on a GP weekend is brave, if a little reckless. I'm surprised they were allowed to start at all, any car failures could have seen someone get seriously hurt, but it's a dangerous sport and Senna and Chandhok did well. Remember that these small teams are the potential front runners of tomorrow and only add to the spectacle, lets just hope Melbourne is more exciting, I personally think the Bahrain track is dull.. roll on Oz!!!

[Willow Rosenberg]

16 car grids would be more embarrassing.

[onemoresolo]

I think it's great to see new teams, even HRT doing a shakedown on a GP weekend is brave, if a little reckless. I'm surprised they were allowed to start at all, any car failures could have seen someone get seriously hurt, but it's a dangerous sport and Senna and Chandhok did well.

True, but they had little option. If they had the chance to test before the season started they would have done, but when time ran out the rules dictated that there was nothing they could do. They either ran at Bahrain with no practice, and the safety implications of that, or they don't run at all.

I think Brundle's right, they should all have been given until Barcelona to get their houses in order. Do some proper testing and get up to speed, instead of learning on the fly.

For the circumstances they're entering under, all three have done an excellent job.

[vtpachyderm]

I voted no - With the limitations on testing, any new team is going to find it hard in the beginning. HRT could have had their funds in order yes, but given USF1's pussyfooting it out - props to them for showing up. Hell, Toyota and BMW found it difficult to get competitive even with full funding. Williams has been around for how long now, and are still mediocre at best - Force India, Red Bull have made more strides than them. So, to call the three new teams an embarrasment is just unfair and elitist.

[panzani]

Of course they're not!

Every Team has to start from scratch now, it is not like when F1 was starting itself in the fifties -- and almost all succesful Teams started this way! Some will succeed, some won't.

On the other hand, Toyota was embarassing... They've spent some billions, didn't they?

[noikeee]

This kind of poll will be more valid after the final race as they all had a good weekend just for being there this time. I really don't see any of the new teams improving much. A whole season being +6 seconds down will even shake the most positive persons

How much do you want to bet? I say by the end of the last race Lotus will be 1.5 seconds closer to the pack, Virgin 1 second, and HRT possibly some 3 or 4 seconds (if HRT survives that is, because they seem on doubtful financial grounds).

Edited by paranoik0, 15 March 2010 - 19:36.

[Tuxy]

Of course they're not!

Every Team has to start from scratch now, it is not like when F1 was starting itself in the fifties -- and almost all succesful Teams started this way! Some will succeed, some won't.

On the other hand, Toyota was embarassing... They've spent some billions, didn't they?

QFT

[Collective]

I'm impressed with Lotus' reliability. They look better than many new teams back in 80s and 90s.

Virgin was fast in the hands of Glock. They need reliability... but heck... even Ferrari has had bad reliability seasons (just remember mid-90s).

HRT... just to be there, with 2 weeks, was an achievement. They are basically gathering the information they should have gathered during testing season. Given the circumstances they faced, I have to say that Kolles & Co. have been doing a very respectable effort.

[lokiman]

Absolutely not! Bravo to the new teams for having the balls to tackle the immense task that is ahead of them. All of the established teams were 'new teams' once, and it's vital for the future of F1 that it periodically gets an injection of new blood.

[intothepits]

I don't think they're an embarrassment, it's natural for new teams to be slower or to have some failures... HTR hadn't turned a wheel till they got to the Grand Prix weekend, and I think they did a good job with what they were up against.

Car failures were the norm in the 90s... It wasn't unbearable to see a few failures from the new teams at the Bahrain GP, kind of nostalgic actually.

The new teams will only improve, and Lotus did a great job.

[ryan86]

I think what would be embarrassing is if Virgin end up with 30+ mechanical DNF's or if HRT still take till Saturday afternoon to get both cars running, but this is just the start and at the current moment, no, I don't think they are embarrassing.

As someone previously said, it would be more embarassing with tiny grids.

Edited by ryan86, 15 March 2010 - 20:00.

[plastik2k9]

It's hardly embarrasing. A random viewer who switches on will be interested in the top teams rather than some unheard of team several laps behind. Nobody is going to think any less of the sport.

[OfficeLinebacker]

I'm including USF1 in the mix because the FIA did select them and not Epsilon Euskadi or some other better qualified team. That's an embarrassment to the sport.

[Sammyosammy]

I myself I have a great respect for these people in new teams.
They know it is a huge mountain to climb. And still they are willing to do it.

Embarrassment? Heck no..!

[Muz Bee]

How much do you want to bet? I say by the end of the last race Lotus will be 1.5 seconds closer to the pack, Virgin 1 second, and HRT possibly some 3 or 4 seconds (if HRT survives that is, because they seem on doubtful financial grounds).

I think the improvement s will be greater than that - provided they don't have a serious financial problem. The new teams learnt so much about getting more out of their cars - HRT were knocking big chunks off their times and if they cane get the reliability to run more laps in practice and racing they will dramatically close the gap to the front runners. The gap should also be measured in percentage points not seconds and the teams easily achieved the 107% barrier apart from HRT.

For the sport these three teams should be given a testing exemption card for all of 2010. They still won't have the resources to catch the big boys in that time (if ever) but it would improve the spectacle as well as safety factors. Of course the others would scream and shout that this wouldn't be fair and they would have a point. I have been derisive of these teams in the past but now they are here let's hope for their survival and growth.

[noikeee]

For the sport these three teams should be given a testing exemption card for all of 2010. They still won't have the resources to catch the big boys in that time (if ever) but it would improve the spectacle as well as safety factors. Of course the others would scream and shout that this wouldn't be fair and they would have a point. I have been derisive of these teams in the past but now they are here let's hope for their survival and growth.

Yeah frankly I don't understand why nobody thought of giving extra testing miles to the new teams. They did agree to giving more testing to new drivers, isn't this kinda the same thing or even more relevant?

I know nobody took advantage of all the days they had in winter testing, but they were rushing out to get the cars built in time. Why not give them testing during the season? The established teams won't agree to that right now though.

[Burai]

At the end of the day, for things to be entertaining, teams need to be on the same level.

Either Ferrari, McLaren etc come down to their level or these new teams come up to a Ferrari/McLaren level.

TBH it's hard to see either happening.

By your reckoning motor racing has never been entertaining.