12 replies to this topic

[VAR1016]

The Wikipedia Article about this outfit refers to a "V8, developed by Jaguar, found its way into a single-seat closed sports car built by Carrozzeria Sports Cars in 1969. The final Serenissima car was designed by Ghia that same year. Using the same Jaguar V8, the Agena GT featured modern sharp styling, but never reached production."

Does anybody know anything about this engine? I had never heard of a Jaguar V8 in that era.

[David McKinney]

Surely it was Serenissima's own V8 (as had appeared briefly and unsuccessfully in F1 in 1966)

[D-Type]

The Wikipedia Article about this outfit refers to a "V8, developed by Jaguar, found its way into a single-seat closed sports car built by Carrozzeria Sports Cars in 1969. The final Serenissima car was designed by Ghia that same year. Using the same Jaguar V8, the Agena GT featured modern sharp styling, but never reached production."

Does anybody know anything about this engine? I had never heard of a Jaguar V8 in that era.

What exactly might a "Single seat closed sports car" mean?
I can't see Jaguar wanting to make a V8 at that time. The XK was still giving adequate performance and the experimental engine in the underfunded XJ13 was a V-12. So why would they spend scarce R&D budget on a V8?
The article also refers to a Serenissima-engined Lola so is the writer perhaps getting Serenissima, the Lola GT and the XJ13 confused?

[proviz]

Ahhh, Wikipedia..... It regularly mixes just enough fact with fiction and misunderstandings to properly confuse an issue! For a more serious record on Serenissima check this http://forix.autospo...erenissima.html

[VAR1016]

Ahhh, Wikipedia..... It regularly mixes just enough fact with fiction and misunderstandings to properly confuse an issue! For a more serious record on Serenissima check this http://forix.autospo...erenissima.html

Thanks for the replies, and the article is very interesting. It includes:

"For over a year the car was left in the corner of the factory while Serenissima went back to concentrate on its road-car business. A new car, the Agena GT, was designed. It featured modern styling and used Serenissima’s new Jaguar-developed 3.5-litre V8 but the car never reached production. Only one prototype was built. In the summer of ’69 rumours surfaced that Serenissima would install this new engine in the M1AF to finally go racing, but for what use? It would only have been eligible for Libre events. The rumours were in fact based on truth, as Serenissima did indeed install the engine and tested it on Modena Aerodrome. But its driver was simply its prospective buyer… "

Sadly the link to "Serenissima's V8" in the article is broken.

[Tomas Karlsson]

Interesting article, but I had hoped to find something about Volpi's connections with Bonnier. But as ususal JoBo seems to be disappearing in the shadows. And there is a strange story about the Venzia Porsche: "Volpi also bought the ex-factory Porsche 718-203 from Juan Manuel Bordeu, who had raced the car at Vallelunga in May. He put his friend Carlo Abate on board at Napoli...etc"
Excuse me, but what race at Vallelunga in May? And did Bordeu buy the car from the factory after it came back from the South Africa races in January, only to sell it to Volpi before Bruxelles in April, when Bonnier raced the red Porsche the first time? Have I missed something in this story...?

[proviz]

The following information from Serge Bellu's article in "Le Fanatique de l'Automobile" may shed some light on this engine:

At the end of 1968 a new engine was designed for Serenissima by Alf Francis and a group of English engineers. It was a 90 deg V8 produced in Formigine. Designated M167 it differed from its predecessor by having three-valve cylinder heads. Dimensions were 91,5x57 mm. Lucas injection or Weber carbs were options.
This was the engine used in the car Jonathan Williams drove in Norisring in the summer of 1969.

[hansfohr]

The Wikipedia Article about this outfit refers to a "V8, developed by Jaguar, found its way into a single-seat closed sports car built by Carrozzeria Sports Cars in 1969. The final Serenissima car was designed by Ghia that same year. Using the same Jaguar V8, the Agena GT featured modern sharp styling, but never reached production."

Does anybody know anything about this engine? I had never heard of a Jaguar V8 in that era.

I'll check out my McLaren 'bible' and scan the pages concerning the Serenissima F1 engine.

Edited by hansfohr, 23 March 2010 - 20:49.

[VAR1016]

I'll check out my McLaren 'bible' and scan the pages concerning the Serenissima engine.

Thank you.

Great photo too.

[hansfohr]

Sorrry, no significant info found about the Serenissima V8 [type M166] in my McLaren book. To make up for that an image of Bruce's McLaren-Serenissima M2B at Brands Hatch, taken during practice. It was the only GP in which the McLaren-Serenissima appeared on the grid. Against the odds Bruce finished in 6th spot.

Edited by hansfohr, 23 March 2010 - 20:59.

[hansfohr]

Thanks for the replies, and the article is very interesting. It includes:

"For over a year the car was left in the corner of the factory while Serenissima went back to concentrate on its road-car business. A new car, the Agena GT, was designed. It featured modern styling and used Serenissima's new Jaguar-developed 3.5-litre V8 but the car never reached production. Only one prototype was built. In the summer of '69 rumours surfaced that Serenissima would install this new engine in the M1AF to finally go racing, but for what use? It would only have been eligible for Libre events. The rumours were in fact based on truth, as Serenissima did indeed install the engine and tested it on Modena Aerodrome. But its driver was simply its prospective buyer… "

Sadly the link to "Serenissima's V8" in the article is broken.

This is the missing link! http://www.velocetod...rs/cars_135.php

[timnevinson]

Any more detail about how Jaguar were connected with the Seranissima engine development?

[Nev]

What exactly might a "Single seat closed sports car" mean?
I can't see Jaguar wanting to make a V8 at that time. The XK was still giving adequate performance and the experimental engine in the underfunded XJ13 was a V-12. So why would they spend scarce R&D budget on a V8?
The article also refers to a Serenissima-engined Lola so is the writer perhaps getting Serenissima, the Lola GT and the XJ13 confused?

Yes - Jaguar were running a prototype V8 as early as 1965/66. I know this because I have read some of the documentation referring to the V8 project whilst researching the prototype V12.

However, it was a V8 with a difference ...

They used a V12 block and a specially-cast crank with fewer journals, Four of the cylinders were blanked off so that it was effectively a V8. I haven't dug any further but it would be interesting to understand the reasoning behind such a configuration. It was certainly an active time for Jaguar as this project was followed by a "slant 6" and various 4-valve V12 configurations (before the 6.4 litre SOHC prototypes which preceded the 5.3 production version).