9757 replies to this topic

[gillesthegenius]

You mean Schumi was so good in '04 that he would have scored 18 more points than is mathematically possible from 14 races? That is some insane domination...

Methinks you need to re-check your figures!

Seb has only dropped 41 points this year, less than 3 per race, less than half the margin between 1st and 3rd... he has been dominant, but the best thing is he has been driving almost flawlessly to make that dominance happen.

Oh Im sorry, just got put off by his 12 wins in 14 races.
Schumi actually lost 32 points (according to the current system) in his first 14 races that year, meaning he would have had 318 points (1 less than in 2002) that year.

Putting things into perspective, with the more accurate figures at hand, Seb doest compare that badly at all.

Thanks for letting me know of my folly btw.

[Group B]

It all depends on Newey.

You're hilarious; I see you scuttling round slagging off any driver who is getting accolades apart from Fred, irrespective of whether your arguments hold a drop of water. Any real fan of F1 would appreciate performances such as those of Vettel and Button yesterday, rather than behaving like a 10 year old spoil sport who just came second in a sack race.

[mrmusicman]

You're hilarious; I see you scuttling round slagging off any driver who is getting accolades apart from Fred, irrespective of whether your arguments hold a drop of water. Any real fan of F1 would appreciate performances such as those of Vettel and Button yesterday, rather than behaving like a 10 year old spoil sport who just came second in a sack race.

You need to be a little more tolerant of other peoples opinions. I have every right to be as negative as you are postive about any driver. Vettel has never won a race out of a newey car, and that is a massive question mark over him. He needs to prove he can stand alone without Newey, the greatest designer in history. Until then hes just another one of those newey champions, like hill, villeneuve, hakkinen.

Edited by mrmusicman, 26 September 2011 - 08:11.

[DarthWillie]

You need to be a little more tolerant of other peoples opinions. I have every right to be as negative as you are postive about any driver.

yeah but you have to accept people pointing to stupidity, that is also a right

Vettel has never won a race out of a newey car, and that is a massive question mark over him. He needs to prove he can stand alone without Newey, the greatest designer in history. Until then hes just another one of those newey champions, like hill, villeneuve, hakkinen.

Schumacher never won a race outside a brawn/byrne car......................................................................

Edited by DarthWillie, 26 September 2011 - 08:13.

[mrmusicman]

Schumacher never won a race outside a brawn/byrne car......................................................................

How many other champions did Bryne have? Zero right?

[Group B]

You need to be a little more tolerant of other peoples opinions. I have every right to be as negative as you are postive about any driver. Vettel has never won a race out of a newey car, and that is a massive question mark over him. He needs to prove he can stand alone without Newey, the greatest designer in history. Until then hes just another one of those newey champions, like hill, villeneuve, hakkinen.

You're problem is that you're too blinded by jealousy and bitterness to be remotely objective. We all know the Red Bull has been the overall best car this season but the vast majority of both fans and experts are able to see beyond that to Vettel's performances, which, by all accounts, have been outstanding.

[flyer121]

You need to be a little more tolerant of other peoples opinions. I have every right to be as negative as you are postive about any driver. Vettel has never won a race out of a newey car, and that is a massive question mark over him. He needs to prove he can stand alone without Newey, the greatest designer in history. Until then hes just another one of those newey champions, like hill, villeneuve, hakkinen.

I am with you on this mate - but its kinda hard with you ! You are like - its all car !!
The fact that we can never know if its the driver or the car - makes it even more exasperating.

If a driver's talent can only shine in a bad car then why arent the two more "talented" drivers putting their cars on the top step.
Assuming Vettel's car is the best , so make the difference with the extra driver talent guys !!

[flyer121]

Bickering aside - I know its too soon to talk about 7 WDC but If I see one guy doing that - its Vettel !!

[Realyn]

Schumacher never won a race outside a brawn/byrne car......................................................................

Hamilton never won a race outside a Mclaren
Alex Ferguson never won the CL with anybody else than ManU

Oh wait ... hes @ ManU since 1986 and the CL exist since 1992 ........................... well maybe ......... you .... got ... the id... ea

[DarthWillie]

How many other champions did Bryne have? Zero right?

Kimi won a championship in a Byrne car, something he couldn't do in a Newey car

[trogggy]

You need to be a little more tolerant of other peoples opinions. I have every right to be as negative as you are postive about any driver. Vettel has never won a race out of a newey car, and that is a massive question mark over him. He needs to prove he can stand alone without Newey, the greatest designer in history. Until then hes just another one of those newey champions, like hill, villeneuve, hakkinen.

You have that right, but when you jump into a thread (not this one, but the pattern is the same) to tell us all how poorly you rate a driver and then scuttle off without answering the awkward (and obvious) questions asked you don't retain much credibility.

[Concorde]

Bickering aside - I know its too soon to talk about 7 WDC but If I see one guy doing that - its Vettel !!

One step at a time will you

But you're right although it's early days if one driver could equal or better Schumacher's 7 WDCs it would be Seb.
I think last year Schumacher said that he would be pleased if it was his young friend Seb to take that record away from him.

[trogggy]

One step at a time will you

But you're right although it's early days if one driver could equal or better Schumacher's 7 WDCs it would be Seb.
I think last year Schumacher said that he would be pleased if it was his young friend Seb to take that record away from him.

I believe that the way I believe he accidentally parked up on the Rascasse.

Seriously - he'll need a lot of things to fall into place to make it even possible. I don't doubt he has the ability, but he's not the only driver on the grid who has.

[gillesthegenius]

I am with you on this mate - but its kinda hard with you ! You are like - its all car !!
The fact that we can never know if its the driver or the car - makes it even more exasperating.

If a driver's talent can only shine in a bad car then why arent the two more "talented" drivers putting their cars on the top step.
Assuming Vettel's car is the best , so make the difference with the extra driver talent guys !!

Good one mate.

[Sakae]

Seems like he does care a bit about the fastest lap, but controls his temper. I like that bit about Jenson teasing Seb that he had no chance to get the fastest lap back and Seb answering in his usual measured style that 'he was not sure'.



Seb seems also speak both like a team leader and a cheeky boy. There is certainly the 'team leader' speaking:

Q: (Ian de Cotta – Today) Sebastian, do you think your season so far and your drive tonight has been a magical one?

SV: As I said earlier, I don’t think there are any secrets so magic, I don’t know, maybe for some people. It has been an incredible year for us, an incredible record for both of us, in terms of reliability. We had no problems with the car, the engine was perfect from start to finish so touch wood, nothing has gone wrong so far this year and as I said, it does need a lot of small things coming together to make sure that you have an incredible season like we have had so far. It has been very enjoyable and everyone has been extremely disciplined in a way, target-orientated and we’ve all enjoyed it. I think those three things sum it up pretty well and we hope to carry on like that, carry the momentum into the next races and into the next season probably as well.

Exactly right.

For comparison a statement with McLaren's: "We want to be feared..." (my recommendation - get of the medication first)

[gillesthegenius]

Kimi won a championship in a Byrne car, something he couldn't do in a Newey car

... and Jenson won a title in a Brawn car.

This is becoming hillarious. No harm in being provided with some entertainment amidst all the appraisal that the wundakid is being showered with in this thread.;)

Edited by gillesthegenius, 26 September 2011 - 10:30.

[Concorde]

... and Jenson won a title in a Brawn car.

This is becoming hillarious. No harm in being provided with some entertainment amidst all the appraisal that the wundkid is being showered with in this thread.;)

Let's make that "wunderkind" GtG

[ArchangelX]

Let's make that "wunderkind" GtG

Vettel is just simply a fantastic driver who is in a "Perfect Storm" situation...the best car, the best driver, the best team. He's unbeatable for a reason...they've got it working well, and they've been able to do it two seasons in a row. Kudos to them. Kudos to Vettel for being able to consistently perform and take advantage of the ride that's been created for him.

Yeah, it's a little boring to watch, but it doesn't take anything away from the guy.

[flyer121]

Vettel is just simply a fantastic driver who is in a "Perfect Storm" situation...the best car, the best driver, the best team. He's unbeatable for a reason...they've got it working well, and they've been able to do it two seasons in a row. Kudos to them. Kudos to Vettel for being able to consistently perform and take advantage of the ride that's been created for him.

Yeah, it's a little boring to watch, but it doesn't take anything away from the guy.

If they win with 5 races to go they can develop the next year's car and the momentum will carry them thru the first half easy.

And when the rest catch up it will be upto Vettel to keep them at bay and I m confident he can deliver ... 2013 will be Vettel's key year which wil decide if he is going all the way or not !

[gillesthegenius]

One step at a time will you

But you're right although it's early days if one driver could equal or better Schumacher's 7 WDCs it would be Seb.
I think last year Schumacher said that he would be pleased if it was his young friend Seb to take that record away from him.

Same thing was being said about Alonso in 06, and the scary thing is that had he maintained his cool at Mclaren, he might well have been on his way to doing that by adding the 07, 08 and 10 titles to his name by now.

So lets just hope god opens the door for him to acheive that and Seb plays the game smart and takes it slow and easy.

[gillesthegenius]

Let's make that "wunderkind" GtG

Oops!!!
But I prefer calling him the wundakid.;)

[gillesthegenius]

If they win with 5 races to go they can develop the next year's car and the momentum will carry them thru the first half easy.

And when the rest catch up it will be upto Vettel to keep them at bay and I m confident he can deliver ... 2013 will be Vettel's key year which wil decide if he is going all the way or not !

2010 was more than enough for me. But after this season, Im becoming a little too greedy and badly want him to complete the hat-trick by bringing the RB8 also into his garage at home.

Who else besides Schumi has actually completed the hat-trick? Has Fangio done it?

Edited by gillesthegenius, 26 September 2011 - 10:37.

[joshb]

Mega weekend from Seb, looked good all the way through.
Amazing how he pulled such big gaps early on and but for the SC could've won by 30-40 secs and lapped even up to Alonso.

The only annoying thing is JB nicked FL at the end to spoil the Grand Chelem!

1 more point to go!

The most sensational set of results, 17 podiums in 19 races, 1 4th and a DNF when leading.
No way will he ever be this dominant again so I'll enjoy it while it lasts

[engel]

Who else besides Schumi has actually completed the hat-trick? Has Fangio done it?

Yes Fangio has (actually he got 4 in a row between 54 and 57). And Michael got 5 in a row (2000 -2004)

[flyer121]

2010 was more than enough for me. But after this season, Im becoming a little too greedy and badly want him to complete the hat-trick by bringing the RB8 also into his garage at home.

Who else besides Schumi has actually completed the hat-trick? Has Fangio done it?

Oh yes - 2010 is up there where Vettel had to deal with all sorts of issues (reliability, his own mistakes , teammate troubles & media hounding) and he still pulled thru !
actually better than 2011 IMO ...

What I meant by "all the way" was in terms of the Schumi record which is going to be a tough ask considering the calibre of drivers around today. If Seb (or Newey as some suggest) handle 2013 reg changes fine and fight into the title - then he will have a definite chance for the record # of titles.

Time will tell.

Edited by flyer121, 26 September 2011 - 12:38.

[TheBunk]

http://www.guardian....hael-schumacher

Glowing remarks on Vettel in The Guardian

[toolish]

Dear all, I work for a Belgian magazine, and we would like to publish an interview with Sebastian Vettel. Since for the Belgian press, getting an in depth interview with any F1 driver is next to impossible, we're looking for an interview we could buy and translate. Problem is: where to find one? Does anyone here know of any recent interview with him that tackles some more personal topics and could interest a broader audience? Thanks!

Edited by toolish, 26 September 2011 - 13:00.

[Crossmax]

Dear all, I work for a Belgian magazine, and we would like to publish an interview with Sebastian Vettel. Since for the Belgian press getting an in depth interview with any F1 driver is next to impossible, we're looking for an interview we could buy and translate. Problem is: where to find one. Does anyone here know of any recent interview with him that tackles some more personal topics and could interest a broader audience? Thanks!

Send in a request to Red Bull and hope for the best! Vettel seems to be enjoying (or at least not detesting) the media part of F1, so with a little bit of luck you could do your own interview with him. Your chances will obviously depend on what magazine you're working for, and what coverage you get.

[toolish]

Send in a request to Red Bull and hope for the best! Vettel seems to be enjoying (or at least not detesting) the media part of F1, so with a little bit of luck you could do your own interview with him. Your chances will obviously depend on what magazine you're working for, and what coverage you get.

We already did that: Red Bull granted us an interview of 15 minutes - in Budapest. Of course we declined. We have about one million readers, and even that can't convince them to give us more time.

[engel]

We already did that: Red Bull granted us an interview of 15 minutes - in Budapest. Of course we declined. We have about one million readers, and even that can't convince them to give us more time.

You won't get more time during a GP, but you can use your 15 minutes to ask for a longer more in depth interview outside a GP. But keep in mind not everybody is willing to do more in depth interviews.

[phil1993]

You declined a 15 minute interview with the reigning world champion during a GP weekend?

Crikey.

[sosidge]

We already did that: Red Bull granted us an interview of 15 minutes - in Budapest. Of course we declined. We have about one million readers, and even that can't convince them to give us more time.

Strange kind of magazine you work for... granted 15 minutes of one-to-one time which you refuse, but would rather purchase another interview for translation? And you need to post on a motorsport forum to find your sources?

[toolish]

Strange kind of magazine you work for... granted 15 minutes of one-to-one time which you refuse, but would rather purchase another interview for translation? And you need to post on a motorsport forum to find your sources?

Don't shoot the pianist! I hope you can understand that if you travel to the other end of Europe, you'd want to at least get an interview which isn't a carbon copy of the ones you read everywhere. We do things in depth, that's all. I was just asking if anyone here has read such an interview with the young man. Don't flame me, I like it here!

[Wi000]

Dear all, I work for a Belgian magazine, and we would like to publish an interview with Sebastian Vettel. Since for the Belgian press, getting an in depth interview with any F1 driver is next to impossible, we're looking for an interview we could buy and translate. Problem is: where to find one? Does anyone here know of any recent interview with him that tackles some more personal topics and could interest a broader audience? Thanks!

Try Bild they seem to have a lot of interviews with Seb and aim for a more mainstream audience.

Read an interview today about Vettel's rituals in the last hour before the GP.
The Bild journos seem to have access everywhere.

http://www.bild.de/s...31726.bild.html

Good luck BTW and will you link or post if you manage to get the interview?

Edited by Wi000, 26 September 2011 - 13:23.

[flyer121]

Don't shoot the pianist! I hope you can understand that if you travel to the other end of Europe, you'd want to at least get an interview which isn't a carbon copy of the ones you read everywhere. We do things in depth, that's all. I was just asking if anyone here has read such an interview with the young man. Don't flame me, I like it here!

Are you a bit "toolish" Sorry couldnt resist !
Any way I agree that it was not okay for people to jump on you like that .

But why didnt you try Belgian GP. Anyway - there are lots of German interviews of SV and you wouldnt even need to translate
unless you want one in Belgian (French cum Dutch German )

[Wi000]

But why didnt you try Belgian GP. Anyway - there are lots of German interviews of SV and you wouldnt even need to translate
unless you want one in Belgian (French cum Dutch German )

Ermm I think you'd find <100K native German speakers in Belgium and the rest French or Flemish/Dutch, so yes translation would be required.

[Unbiased]

Well, I don't know how anyone can critisize his driving, really. Yet another display of how a worthy champion should drive, all weekend.

The people saying that Vettel has not proven his worth, until he is teamed up with Hamilton:

1. 2011 Hamilton vs. 2011 Vettel is easy cake. Vettel would destroy him in the same car because half the races Hamilton has been driving like Badour on a good day. In fact, 5-6 races Mclaren was faster, 1-2 as fast as RBR, Hamilton threw away the wins left , right and center. Hamilton just isn't that good anymore.

2. Using that argument; Hamilton has not proven it too then. Teaming up with Alonso you say? Who were the teammates Alonso beat? Right, nobody special, so he didn't prove it too then? Meaning Hamilton beating Alonso means nothing too. Same with Button (whom most Hamilton fans think is an average driver). Just following the Hamilton fans reasoning, not saying that reasoning is correct, as for Vettel too

It is the silly mistakes Hamilton makes in most races that would make Vettel the winner. Being the best is being good in all areas, not just being 'an exciting overtaker', i.e. bulldozing your way through the field hoping the other gets scared off the racing line...if not, crash into them.

So maybe start eating more humble pie and stop patting Hamilton on the back, while he is making mistakes like an average mid-field driver? He is not in the top 3 of present F1 anymore, not even top 5, so judging other drivers to how they would compare to 2011 Hamilton is a script for a bad comedy sketch.

[scheivlak]

sorry, I meant pole&win, not pole&win&in the lead in every lap.
I should find a better expression for that...

Had a quick look: I think the record belongs to Michael Schumacher who scored 4 consecutive pole/wins in the last four GPs of 2000 followed by 2 pole/win combinations in the first 2 GPs of 2001, making it 6 consecutive pole/win combinations in total.

Nigel Mansell scored 5 consecutive pole/wins in the first 5 GPs of 1992, so that's the most in one season.

Ayrton Senna had 4 consecutive pole/win combinations in 1991, just like..... Fernando Alonso mid-season (Spain-Monaco-GB-Canada) in 2006!

[fieraku]

You need to be a little more tolerant of other peoples opinions. I have every right to be as negative as you are postive about any driver. Vettel has never won a race out of a newey car, and that is a massive question mark over him. He needs to prove he can stand alone without Newey, the greatest designer in history. Until then hes just another one of those newey champions, like hill, villeneuve, hakkinen.

One question. What driver has won a WDC in a crap car?I started watching in 94 so if you give an example from the 60's I'm not interested.

[BennyJohnson]

Had a quick look: I think the record belongs to Michael Schumacher who scored 4 consecutive pole/wins in the last four GPs of 2000 followed by 2 pole/win combinations in the first 2 GPs of 2001, making it 6 consecutive pole/win combinations in total.

Nigel Mansell scored 5 consecutive pole/wins in the first 5 GPs of 1992, so that's the most in one season.

Ayrton Senna had 4 consecutive pole/win combinations in 1991, just like..... Fernando Alonso mid-season (Spain-Monaco-GB-Canada) in 2006!

I would be hugely suprised if Vettel didn't Pole/win at least the next two races. Suzuka, he is just always on another level. He has never looked like losing there since 2009.

And Korea is another track that will suit Red Bull, as well as most likely India. I think we'll see the most pole/win's consecutively broken if what you said above is the case.

[Tardis40]

Five races left. Will Vettel/RBR take every pole this season?

[Afterburner]

Five races left. Will Vettel/RBR take every pole this season?

I'd go as far as to say the odds are fifty-fifty or perhaps even better that this will be the case, at least under 'normal' circumstances. All of the remaining tracks look like they'll suit the RB7 better than the rest of the field, and if Vettel doesn't let up even after winning the championship, nobody's got a chance. Based on their previous record this year--and the fact that nearly all the teams have likely abandoned car development at this point--I honestly think the only thing that could really stop them would be a freak incident. I even think it's quite possible that Vettel might win all of the remaining races, as well.

Of course, it sounds easy...

[BennyJohnson]

I'd go as far as to say the odds are fifty-fifty or perhaps even better that this will be the case, at least under 'normal' circumstances. All of the remaining tracks look like they'll suit the RB7 better than the rest of the field, and if Vettel doesn't let up even after winning the championship, nobody's got a chance. Based on their previous record this year--and the fact that nearly all the teams have likely abandoned car development at this point--I honestly think the only thing that could really stop them would be a freak incident. I even think it's quite possible that Vettel might win all of the remaining races, as well.

Of course, it sounds easy...

I'd say it's a bit more than 50/50 isn't it?

RBR have an engine advantage? he's got all but 3 poles this year, I'd put 50 on him taking all the poles this season.

[mrmusicman]

Well, I don't know how anyone can critisize his driving, really. Yet another display of how a worthy champion should drive, all weekend.

The people saying that Vettel has not proven his worth, until he is teamed up with Hamilton:

1. 2011 Hamilton vs. 2011 Vettel is easy cake. Vettel would destroy him in the same car because half the races Hamilton has been driving like Badour on a good day. In fact, 5-6 races Mclaren was faster, 1-2 as fast as RBR, Hamilton threw away the wins left , right and center. Hamilton just isn't that good anymore.

2. Using that argument; Hamilton has not proven it too then. Teaming up with Alonso you say? Who were the teammates Alonso beat? Right, nobody special, so he didn't prove it too then? Meaning Hamilton beating Alonso means nothing too. Same with Button (whom most Hamilton fans think is an average driver). Just following the Hamilton fans reasoning, not saying that reasoning is correct, as for Vettel too

It is the silly mistakes Hamilton makes in most races that would make Vettel the winner. Being the best is being good in all areas, not just being 'an exciting overtaker', i.e. bulldozing your way through the field hoping the other gets scared off the racing line...if not, crash into them.

So maybe start eating more humble pie and stop patting Hamilton on the back, while he is making mistakes like an average mid-field driver? He is not in the top 3 of present F1 anymore, not even top 5, so judging other drivers to how they would compare to 2011 Hamilton is a script for a bad comedy sketch.

You should win awards for always writing complete nonsense. I guess we should not expect better from someone who thinks Kobayashi is one of the best drivers of the grid, and highest rated in the paddock.

Edited by mrmusicman, 27 September 2011 - 06:19.

[mrmusicman]

One question. What driver has won a WDC in a crap car?.

Who ever said they did??

[gillesthegenius]

You should win awards for always writing complete nonsense. I guess we should not expect better from someone who thinks Kobayashi is one of the best drivers of the grid, and highest rated in the paddock.

Does the word 'irony' ever ring a bell?

Edited by gillesthegenius, 27 September 2011 - 06:35.

[Concorde]

Five races left. Will Vettel/RBR take every pole this season?

That would be a nice new challenge for RBR to set for themselves now it looks like the championships are in the bag.
OTOH it would be a big motivation for Ferrari and Mclaren to be the team to spoil a perfect season qualy-wise for RBR.

[DarthWillie]

It all depends on Newey.

some funny statistic, between 1999 and 2010 NO Newey car delivered a championship. Drivers in those cars: Mika Hakkinen, David Coulthard, Kimi Raikkonen, Juan Pablo Montoya, Pedro de La Rosa, Mark Webber, Christijan Klien.
Another funny statistic: Between 9/10/2005 (Raikkonen Japan) and 14/9/2008 (Vettel Monza) no Newey car won a single race (although to be honest he didn't design a car in 2006. But fielded 4 in 2008)

one could conclude that even a Newey designed car is no guarantee for succes. (I will admit the RB7 is a great car, but it is no way near as good as the championship standings suggest.)

[Group B]

You should win awards for always writing complete nonsense. I guess we should not expect better from someone who thinks Kobayashi is one of the best drivers of the grid, and highest rated in the paddock.

Nice of you to suggest beaking up your monopoly

[Sakae]

some funny statistic, between 1999 and 2010 NO Newey car delivered a championship. Drivers in those cars: Mika Hakkinen, David Coulthard, Kimi Raikkonen, Juan Pablo Montoya, Pedro de La Rosa, Mark Webber, Christijan Klien.
Another funny statistic: Between 9/10/2005 (Raikkonen Japan) and 14/9/2008 (Vettel Monza) no Newey car won a single race (although to be honest he didn't design a car in 2006. But fielded 4 in 2008)

one could conclude that even a Newey designed car is no guarantee for succes. (I will admit the RB7 is a great car, but it is no way near as good as the championship standings suggest.)

If it would be so easy - just a better car than rest of them - then AN could sit in, drive it, and win as well. There would not need for Sebastian. Horner would be sitting in the second one. A lot of money would be saved that way.