14491 replies to this topic

[as65p]

barneyrubble, on May 30 2012, 08:38, said:

Then how is Alonso beating them both in the drivers championship with an inferior car?

By declaring the Ferrari a superior car. Simples.

[Stormsky68]

Olly F1, on May 29 2012, 17:55, said:

Alonso and Ham need to get a room! Seriously, what's with all the praise they keep giving each other recently? It's nice to see but it does seem a bit odd.

team mates next year maybe?

[Oho]

AdHoc, on May 29 2012, 09:12, said:

No need to argue as long as you don't put the whole field in the same car, with the same treatment and with good tyres.

/debate

Even that would only solve it with respect to that one particular car.....

[velgajski1]

barneyrubble, on May 30 2012, 07:38, said:

Then how is Alonso beating them both in the drivers championship with an inferior car?

I'm not sure if Vettel is in a superior car, we saw what even Massa can do with Ferrari on a good day, problem is Massa has a good day once in 5 races. Hamilton is in better car (given that few first races McLaren was better, nowdays it's actually worse car), but Hamilton got screwed by his team in every race so far except maybe Monaco (well, he did, but it hasn't cost him any places, maybe the place to Vettel in worse case) and without those cockups would have some 20-30 points clear of anyone else in championship. So far, Hamilton and Alonso are being perfect this season with Vettel close behind.

Also, you cannot judge anything by 6 races, what I'm talking about is observations over several seasons. Hamilton was practically never unexplainably slow which happens to all drivers on grid sometimes, that says that either he is superior setup-wise or can drive around setup problems. Only driver that I've ever seen like that is Michael Schumacher, he was also almost never slow (last race of 2003. comes to mind, couple of more, but these are extremely rare cases).

Also, I agree with topical, both Hamilton and Alonso are feeling a bit 'left out' now that Vettel is dominating the sport for last 3 seasons. Hamilton hasn't won title for 3 seasons now, Alonso 5 seasons. Both drivers had WDC capable cars in 2010., both drivers had opportunity to show themselves as clearly best on grid (by not having 2-3 bad races which they both did have), but they failed and Vettel won title. It's not a wonder they feel a bit symphatetic one towards other

Edited by velgajski1, 30 May 2012 - 09:01.

[TheBunk]

as65p, on May 30 2012, 07:10, said:

By declaring the Ferrari a superior car. Simples.

;)

For some, the world is as easy as that.;)

[kosmos]

I don't know about perfect for Hamilton, non converted poles is far from perfect plus zero wins when Jenson has one but he is one of the best so far in this season, there is no doubt about it, with Fernando he is the only driver to get points in every race and the only one to get 3 podiums, that's a good consistency.

[velgajski1]

kosmos, on May 30 2012, 09:59, said:

I don't know about perfect for Hamilton, non converted poles is far from perfect plus zero wins when Jenson has one but he is one of the best so far in this season, there is no doubt about it, with Fernando he is the only driver to get points in every race and the only one to get 3 podiums, that's a good consistency.

Well, like said already, non-converted poles is mostly down to team cockups, even Australia there was a clutch problem at the start, and then pitstop problem later. Also, Alonso doesn't have as strong teammate and has clear #1 status in Ferrari, we do not know what Vettel, Button or Hamilton would be capable of doing in Ferrari. But my assumption is that he drove perfect or next to perfect as long as he made no big mistakes, same goes for Hamilton.

[Architrion]

Not a great fan of any driver. I like the sport as a whole, not because someone is racing somebody's car. But I have to say that Alonso hasn't amaze me because of speed, consistency or determination. He is absolutely fantastic because of his flexibility, his ability to adapt to what he is given. He was on Michelins and you could see that bloody fast turn in. Everybody was thinking this guy hasn't learned how to properly drive an F1, but he was fast and better than anyone warming the tyres. Then he was on Bridgestones and you could see how much softer he was on his steering inputs. And finally two different seasons on quite different Pirellis, and the guy is always there, battling at the front, being fast and consistent, and his steering slightly modified again to serve the tyres the better.

That changes are major changes, that goes to the most automated driving abilities. And he made it everytime and he was succesful each one. That is a real fact that shows quality.

[velgajski1]

Architrion, on May 30 2012, 10:09, said:

Not a great fan of any driver. I like the sport as a whole, not because someone is racing somebody's car. But I have to say that Alonso hasn't amaze me because of speed, consistency or determination. He is absolutely fantastic because of his flexibility, his ability to adapt to what he is given. He was on Michelins and you could see that bloody fast turn in. Everybody was thinking this guy hasn't learned how to properly drive an F1, but he was fast and better than anyone warming the tyres. Then he was on Bridgestones and you could see how much softer he was on his steering inputs. And finally two different seasons on quite different Pirellis, and the guy is always there, battling at the front, being fast and consistent, and his steering slightly modified again to serve the tyres the better.

That changes are major changes, that goes to the most automated driving abilities. And he made it everytime and he was succesful each one. That is a real fact that shows quality.

Yep, that is a trademark of great drivers. From power-steering to fairly smooth style and always being fast.

[AdHoc]

Oho, on May 30 2012, 08:44, said:

Even that would only solve it with respect to that one particular car.....

Then let's stop this boring discussion

[FerrariAlonso]

http://www1.skysport...-best-of-rivals

Finally, Lewis Hamilton disclosed he considers Fernando as the best driver.

I can't remember there is any important person (former and current driver and expert) who hasn't claimed Fernando the best. It is amazing who Fernando jinxed the whole world. He is the man who really deserves a good car and then he will easily grab the title.

[discover23]

Kovalainen tips Alonso for the title

"Alonso's lead ... yes, he will take the championship this year," Finnish newspaper Turun Sanomat quoted Caterham driver Kovalainen as saying.

"Whatever the special circumstances or the weather conditions, there is always a common variable, and that is Alonso being somewhere at the front," he said.

"A good example is Monaco," said the Finn, "where McLaren is usually in charge, but suddenly they are average and Jenson Button was having to pass me.

"If the tires aren't working for you, it's finished," said Kovalainen.

[SirRacer]

discover23, on May 30 2012, 21:04, said:

Kovalainen tips Alonso for the title

"Alonso's lead ... yes, he will take the championship this year," Finnish newspaper Turun Sanomat quoted Caterham driver Kovalainen as saying.
"Whatever the special circumstances or the weather conditions, there is always a common variable, and that is Alonso being somewhere at the front," he said.
"A good example is Monaco," said the Finn, "where McLaren is usually in charge, but suddenly they are average and Jenson Button was having to pass me.
"If the tires aren't working for you, it's finished," said Kovalainen.

It will be extremely hard for Fernando to keep this level all the year, Ferrari needs to react and give him the car he deserves. It's due already!

[Skinnyguy]

SirRacer, on May 30 2012, 21:22, said:

It will be extremely hard for Fernando to keep this level all the year, Ferrari needs to react and give him the car he deserves. It's due already!

Fernando is already past the "overdrive slow car" stage, and he did it cum laude.

He´s got the tools to fight for everything already.

[prty]

SirRacer, on May 30 2012, 19:22, said:

It will be extremely hard for Fernando to keep this level all the year

Yep, and as I said before Monaco, statistically he is due a DNF soon. It wasn't in Monaco, could easily be in Canada, with the close walls and the need to push hard to get that tenth that can push you up several places.

[SirRacer]

Skinnyguy, on May 30 2012, 22:12, said:

Fernando is already past the "overdrive slow car" stage, and he did it cum laude.

He´s got the tools to fight for everything already.

I didn't say he isn't capable of mantaining this level all the year, I said it'll be extremely hard.

He needs a more competitive car to be able to be constantly on podium without having to do everything 100% right each weekend

[TeamMacca]

barneyrubble, on May 30 2012, 07:38, said:

Then how is Alonso beating them both in the drivers championship with an inferior car?

Have you not seen Mclaren screwing Lewis over every weekend apart from Monaco?

[Skinnyguy]

SirRacer, on May 30 2012, 22:28, said:

He needs a more competitive car to be able to be constantly on podium without having to do everything 100% right each weekend

No one has a car like that car this year, everyone needs to have a very good weekend for a podium with so much teams so close.

Ferrari is good enough to qualify near the top and has as good race pace as anyone else. After the initial struggles, he´s fighting with similar tools to the rest.

[aditya-now]

BruisedLee, on May 29 2012, 18:51, said:

.....So when talking about Hamilton and Alonso, we could be talking about the best drivers ever and we wouldn't even know...

Interesting point of view - I can see where you are coming from....

Edited by aditya-now, 30 May 2012 - 21:19.

[dreamerBiH]

For all those who are claiming that Alonso was not fair to Grosjean, take a look at this picture. It is clear that Grosjean had enough space and that the collision with Schumacher was nothing else but consequence of Grosjean's overreaction after he touched with Alonso.

Edited by dreamerBiH, 31 May 2012 - 12:36.

[aditya-now]

dreamerBiH, on May 31 2012, 14:34, said:

For all those who are claiming that Alonso was not fair to Grosjean, take a look at this picture. It is clear that Grosjean had enough space and that the collision with Schumacher was nothing else but consequence of Grosjean's overreaction after he touched with Alonso.

Alonso is even looking into the mirrors to see if he has given Grosjean space to survive. Romain would have been wise to do the same...

[dreamerBiH]

aditya-now, on May 31 2012, 14:38, said:

Alonso is even looking into the mirrors to see if he has given Grosjean space to survive. Romain would have been wise to do the same...

Grosjean was looking to Alonso but he totally forgot to watch if there is someone on the other side.

[RedOne]

I think Alonso was on course to get on terms with Hamilton by the first corner before Grosjean killed his momentum.

[Rajdeep]

I think it was a simple mistake due to inexperience on Grosjean's part. When he "lost" the start to Alonso, he thought that he could still block him as Lewis was slow off the line as well. All it did was to scupper Alonso's chance to have a go at Hamilton & Grosjean bouncing off towards Schumi.

With experience, he will learn the point when the battle is lost, give that up and focus on the long haul. Not just in this case, but in overtaking moves as well, for example. Alonso, and for that matter other experienced drivers, know which battle to fight and which one to give up (classic case is Webber on Alonso at Eau Rouge last year)...

[GAZF1nut]

A few years ago, I really disliked Alonso due to what happened during the 2007 campaign but his driving in the past couple of years have definitely made me appreciate him a lot more. I am now hoping that either Fernando or Lewis wins the WDC this year.

[CrucialXtreme]

During a radio interview with Fernando the interviewer said: The two titles of RedBull are more work of Newey that of Vettel? Alonso answered “Yes”

Interesting. I have to agree. Not knocking Vettel because I think he's one of the better drivers on the grid, but I definitely think the 2 titles are down to his superb engineering versus Sebs driving. JMHO.

[kosmos]

Audio interview with El Larguero (in Spanish), start at 21:45.

http://www.ivoox.com..._1260941_1.html

He is going to reveal his tattoo today on twitter. He wants to be remembered as a hard worker, Hamilton the driver that most respect. A lot of casual question from the journalist.

Video interview with CNN (in English). Read the text, they don't have everything in the video.

http://edition.cnn.c...html?hpt=isp_c1

[Konsta]

CrucialXtreme, on Jun 1 2012, 04:03, said:

During a radio interview with Fernando the interviewer said: The two titles of RedBull are more work of Newey that of Vettel? Alonso answered “Yes”

Interesting. I have to agree. Not knocking Vettel because I think he's one of the better drivers on the grid, but I definitely think the 2 titles are down to his superb engineering versus Sebs driving. JMHO.

Stupid reply from FA´s part IMHO. For sure the last two seasons RB was the car to have but still, SV drove just flawlessly and in many cases brilliantly. Sour grapes - an experienced driver should know better than to start downplaying others. Poor form FA!!

[kosmos]

Konsta, on Jun 1 2012, 07:28, said:

Stupid reply from FA´s part IMHO. For sure the last two seasons RB was the car to have but still, SV drove just flawlessly and in many cases brilliantly. Sour grapes - an experienced driver should know better than to start downplaying others. Poor form FA!!

It was quick Q&A type of thing, they asked him to answer with yes, no or something very short and quick, he didn't elavorate because it was not the point of the interview or what the journo demanded. He is not downplaying anything, there is a context for his answer.

Edited by kosmos, 01 June 2012 - 05:52.

[denthierry]

SirRacer, on May 30 2012, 21:28, said:

I didn't say he isn't capable of mantaining this level all the year, I said it'll be extremely hard.

He needs a more competitive car to be able to be constantly on podium without having to do everything 100% right each weekend

What SkinnyGuy is implying and what i agree with is that unlike what many still seem to think, the Ferrari is already among the most competitive cars on the grid.
It's not better, nor worse, than the McLarens, the Lotus, the RBR or the Mercedes.

A Ferrari being on top of the current WDC standing is due to a lot of different factors, Alonso being a fantastically competitive and adaptive driver just being one of them.

[puxanando]

[Clatter]

CrucialXtreme, on Jun 1 2012, 02:03, said:

During a radio interview with Fernando the interviewer said: The two titles of RedBull are more work of Newey that of Vettel? Alonso answered “Yes”

Interesting. I have to agree. Not knocking Vettel because I think he's one of the better drivers on the grid, but I definitely think the 2 titles are down to his superb engineering versus Sebs driving. JMHO.

Ironic that FA hasn't won a championship without a superbly engineered car.

[Lights]

Clatter, on Jun 1 2012, 12:40, said:

Ironic that FA hasn't won a championship without a superbly engineered car.

Then again, lately who has. After all, Fernando does not claim anywhere that he did.

And if anyone could have in recent times, it's him.

[Mackey]

Konsta, on Jun 1 2012, 07:28, said:

Stupid reply from FA´s part IMHO. For sure the last two seasons RB was the car to have but still, SV drove just flawlessly and in many cases brilliantly. Sour grapes - an experienced driver should know better than to start downplaying others. Poor form FA!!

Sour grapes? It´s the only logical answer. The Red Bull has been the best car in the 95% of the races for the past two years, and usually by a healthy margin, so he´s just stating the facts.

[Clatter]

Lights, on Jun 1 2012, 11:50, said:

Then again, lately who has. After all, Fernando does not claim anywhere that he did.

And if anyone could have in recent times, it's him.

No one, including him. I think it was a very poor reply by him.

[Lights]

Clatter, on Jun 1 2012, 13:09, said:

No one, including him. I think it was a very poor reply by him.

And that's because.. he's correct?

[Konsta]

Mackey, on Jun 1 2012, 13:51, said:

Sour grapes? It´s the only logical answer. The Red Bull has been the best car in the 95% of the races for the past two years, and usually by a healthy margin, so he´s just stating the facts.

Even if that was the case, so what? What did Fernando think to achieve by downplaying Seb´s talent and flawless executions in the races. It is not as if the car drove itself.

[Mackey]

Konsta, on Jun 1 2012, 13:30, said:

Even if that was the case, so what? What did Fernando think to achieve by downplaying Seb´s talent and flawless executions in the races. It is not as if the car drove itself.

Have you heard the interview? He´s asked to answer with only "yes" or "no", and the question was: Was Newey more important than Vettel in the last two titles for Red Bull?

What would you have answered to that question?

[dreamerBiH]

Lights, on Jun 1 2012, 12:50, said:

Then again, lately who has. After all, Fernando does not claim anywhere that he did.

And if anyone could have in recent times, it's him.

Alonso's Renault in 2005/06 wasn't as good as Vettel's Red Bull in 2011. Actually, In 2005 Mclaren had a faster car, whereas in 2006 Ferrari was stronger after the mass damper system was forbidden.

Edited by dreamerBiH, 01 June 2012 - 11:43.

[SirRacer]

Clatter, on Jun 1 2012, 12:40, said:

Ironic that FA hasn't won a championship without a superbly engineered car.

One thing is to have a superbly engineered car and another one a car that's way ahead of others.

2005 and 2006 Alonso didn't have a car that was way ahead of the McLaren/Ferrari
2007 Raikkonen didn't have a car that was way ahead of the McLaren (nor did McLaren)
2008 Hamilton didn't have a car that was way ahead of the Ferrari
2009 Jenson button DID have a huge advantage.
2010 Vettel DID have a huge advantage.
2011 Vettel DID have a huge advantage.
2012 Where there is no one that has a huge advantage, Fernando stands out, as always.

[Clatter]

Lights, on Jun 1 2012, 12:17, said:

And that's because.. he's correct?

Yeah, Yeah Yeah. Alonso can win in anything, but every other driver needs better equipment.

[Gilles4Ever]

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