33 replies to this topic

[dan2k]

Ayrton Senna

I know some of you dont like this subject being brought up but i have some things to say.
I'm still young and i wasnt watching formula 1 when Senna was racing(at that time i was still very young and didnt understand much about motor racing), but some how i still think he is the greatest formula 1 driver of all time.
Thats very interesting since i never even saw him race, and that is what is so special about him.
At the time when he was racing drivers skill was what mattered most and he proved that he was the best.

I have read many things about him, and i think he was a hero in lots of kids and the people's heart. I dont think there was ever a driver like Ayrton Senna, he is the one of a kind. Winning was his mission and not to come 2nd or 3rd.
I am a believer in god and i think that god has surely brought this man to the world for a reason.

A man with heaps of courage and determination.
He was Brazil's hero, and he was everyone's hero.
While he was alive he did a lot of good things, donating things and rasing money for charity.
Hes whole life from the start to the end, was like some movie with a sad ending.

I believe that everything happens for a reason, and that Ayrton Senna's death happened for a special reason.
God certainly planned out his whole life even before he was born.
A man that was born to be the greatest driver ever and a personality to match. An ending that would leave many people wondering why??? What happened??? He didnt deserve to die that way!!! How can god let this happen to a man that prayed to him when ever he got the chance???
I think that his death is meant to never be solved much like the mistery of life it self.

During that race, a man called Michael Schumacher was behind Ayrton Senna.
Taking the Tamburello Curve for the second time after the restart, Senna's Williams veered off the track just after the apex of the bend at a speed of 190mph and slammed into an unprotected (properly died instantly).
Behind him was Michael Schumacher going past and to become the next domination of the sport. Isnt that interesting?

Would the way you think of how Ayrton Senna be if he was still alive today?
Ayron Senna dying made lots of people change the way many people thought about him and think about life.
Its like a sad ending to a great movie, like one where the hero gets shot after saving the girl.
I think that those people who had the chance to see him race should just remember what kind of a man he was and what he did for formula 1.

He knew the risks, he knew that he could die driving the car, but he couldnt help love what he did.
He was also a huge believer in god.
He died what he loved doing, and i think Ayrton Senna was one of those guy that wouldnt like to die of old age. Maybe he got his wish or was time for him to come back to gods kingdom.
This might sound crazy, maybe the next great driver in the future might be Ayrton Senna him self again. A recarnation of him.
One perticula quote he said was:
"The day it arrives, it will arrive. It could be today or 50 years later. The only sure thing is that it will arrive". About death
Ayrton Senna

Dan,

[JayWay]

Alot of what you say is true. And alot of what you say I can share the same feeling, at a time. But I think that has changed.

I always heard cooler heads prevail, saying that Senna was not all he was cracked up to be. That he had huge faults, that this legend everyone hears about is partially a myth, and in reality he was just another hard charging driver.

The more I saw about Ayrton the more I refused to believe this. Untill Greg Moore died.

I then started to experience the power of death. How things many people, in the press, and random people said left me confused. It is like a handfull of people have asked me about Moore, they will ask me if I ever saw him race live, I will answer yes. They will say something like "wow, what an experience that musta been!"

Yet they look at me in bewilderment when I explain that really he was just another driver on the track, and although I cheered for him and payed extra attention I don't consider it a life long memory. I guess this myth is already growing on Moore. I saw it the day he died, how reporters, in one specific case that I remember clearly, ansewred a question about how far Moore could have gone. The reporter answered that Moore was the man to take the place of Gilles Villeneuve.

I was astonished to say the least. Gilles Villeneuve?? Just a day before Greg Moore was not even a sure shot for a CART championship. Did they forget that they already had a F1 champion in Jacques, or did he have to be dead to get his credit?

This was the first moment it hit me about death and what it does to an image, and how people explained that Senna is not the god he is made out to be.

Ofcourse Greg Moore and Ayrton Senna are different. Senna is a legend, he is a great, maybe the greatest, so his glorification by death is in a different form, about the person Ayrton was. But Moore I always found weird, I think his skill was boosted. I hear everyday from people on the net who say he was never a good road racer, yet he is often claimed as a couldabeen F1 champion. Moore was a very good driver, one of CARTs best, there was no doubt in that. I even think his road racing skills were vastly underrated due to the Merc engine. I once looked back at his stats and to say the least taking into consideration what he was driving, his road course stats although often inconsistent, was often impressive in my eyes. But some things that he has been described as...I can't believe it.

Also another thing for Moore that has been overblown, is his personality. He is made out to be a saint, the nicest man ever to step into a paddock. This is not true.

Moore was nice, not the nicest. Let me tell you something, when I met Moore numerous times, both me and my friends agreed that nice he was, but Moore also was an arrogant person. When you met him he carried an aura of arrogance.

Others such as Kannan, Fernendez were nicer. When I first met Moore, he signed photos, and took pictures, but never really spoke to us, and looking at the photos even today, I get the sense that he was putting on a show, he cracked a small smile. 10 minutes later Carpentier showed up, he was genuinely happy to see us. When we took pictures he even stopped us and looked around to see if there was a spot where the pic would be nicer, and recommended taking it with the car in the background. I met both of them on Thursday, we were the only ones around while the teams were setting up. So I have always found it odd how Moore was always boosted as the happiest man on Earth. One thing I will say about him though, is he was excellent with kids. That is where the myths are true, when it applies to kids.

I can't speak for Senna. I never met him. But from now, I am always a little suspicious when I hear stories of him, I don't take them as fact anymore.

I wonder that if Lauda had died from his crash, how would we talk about him today. If Barrichello died from his crash at Imola, would we speak of him as the coulda been next Senna. The man Senna held as his heir apparant, instead of just an umpa lumpa lookalike who is a never will be, like we do today? If Gonzalo Rodriguez had not died, he would just be another super sub. Instead his death has people reaching back to find stats to prove how he was so fast against JPM in F3000.

We know the risk of death is their, yet we still often show disrespect to drivers and choose to ignore it. It is only when death strikes that we review our perceptions. I think most of us are guilty of this.


So next time you ponder back to drivers past, pop in a tape of Charlie and the chocalate factory, and think, ahh Rubinho, how lucky we are to have you and your wonderfull chocolate treats. Where would we be without you.;););)

[dan2k]

I watched that race when Greg Moore died, i actually had tears in my eyes after the race finished.
I think it was because i started remembering some guy say that he was going to have a great car next year and that he could go for wins. And he was a champion in the making.
I agree with you about what death does to an image of a person. I always hear about Greg Moore, on how great he was and he will be a force to rekkon with in the future and that he has a huge future a head of him.
But i never appreciated his talent that much until he died. It was then when i started thinking what might have been if he hadnt died in that crash.
Its true that you dont appreciate something until its gone. Like now how im using my computer to type this up, im not thinking "oh how wonderful it is to have this computer". But, if it suddendly blew up then i will know how much i needed that computer and how great it was when i had it.
If a driver wasnt nice it wouldnt bothered me much, i think the more angryer the better as long as the driver is not a smart arse!
As for greg more not being that nice to you that day, i think maybe he had something up hes arse. :-)
For example, if he had no one come up to him for a while, then he would of beg for someone to come up and ask for his autograph. I think once drivers have too many people come up to them or alot of fans they then stop appreciating it.

Cheers mate,

[Spot]

This is an interesting thread. I must admit myself that I was not a great fan of GV while he was alive, but that was because I was only just getting into F1 at the time, and my heroes always deserved to win. I was greatly upset when he was killed, however, and will recollect the images on the news of that incident until my dying day. I can now say that GV was a truely great driver, remembering all his exploits.

the brazilian I disliked from his F3 days, and that distaste grew with each passing incident, and I remember believing that F1 could only improve from his passing - a belief that MS has shattered.

Please, when thinking of great drivers, think about people like Fangio, Clark and Stewart - drivers who were the fastest in the world, but with the humility to admit when they were beaten, unlike the modern so-called 'greats'. Belief in God does not grant you the right to risk other peoples lives in your quest.

[mhferrari]

I think Senna should be classified as a great. His death may have increased his legend, but he was (at the time) a living legend.

[Cociani]

Spot on.

Sorry could not resist the pun. Senna was an incredible racing talent but I find his poshumus diafecation(sp)disturbing. He was a ruthless compeditor and even addmited to stuffing his own teammate(Prost)to win a championship. That was reprehensible. There are no excuses for that sort of behavior. The era of Senna brought on a wave of unsporting attitudes to f1 which we have still not shaken. It used to be a gentlemens sport now it has become filled up with many gready unethical spoiled brats. People learn from example and though Senna was brilliant in his driving ability he set a bad example for up and comming drivers. When people critisised MS for certain instances he says that he grew up watching F1 in the era of Senna when winning was everthing. Maybe if Senna had grown up with driver like Jim Clark, Juan Fangio, Jackie Stewart, Nikki Lauda, Giles Villeneauv, Ronnie Peterson, Sirling Moss... we would not be discussing his occasional questionable behavior on track because it would not happen. Winning is not everything if it is at the expence of fairness and sportsmanship.

I respect your belief in God Dan2k and do not in any way wish to offend you. I believe Senna died because a piece of his suspension broke and he crashed(you all know the grizzly detailes of that horrible day)Senna was not the Messiah and was not taken from us by God for our sins we should try to keep the importance of our sport in perspecrtive.

[senninha]

Now, it's time to write something good about Senna. Afterall, you want to read good things, too.

Senna was a very complex man. Inside the track he was though. On his way, his run over a lot of people, wich were idols for others, specially british, because Senna did his career in GB.

In fact, he wanted to be the best, and achieved it. There is a famous story for Senna's first race in the wet. Senna was a great kart driver, on dry. But, in race day rained. Senna never had driven in a wet track. Due it, his performance was terrible. Senna felt angry and everytime there was a rain, he was on track training with his kart.
The rest is story ... the rainmaster

What makes AS so great was his dedication, he was a hard worker, lived only for race.

Due beeing a south american, he had to be hard, because the stablishement didn't help/want him. For that reason, he is a brazilian hero. He never act as a cry baby (it is the thing that makes me HATE RB's attitude), he conqueror his space and stolen other's.

Others always tried to destroy AS outside the track. The only driver that really tried to deal with Senna on track, without politics, was Nigel Mansell. Due it i like the Lion. I hated NM, on that time, becuase he was a hard enemy. But now I can see how he is underated.

AND, SENNA NEVER DROVE FOR FERRARI. Due it, you can see how great was Senna, the real measure of him.

So, some dislike him. If i were any other driver fan, i'd hate him.

But, these haters can never mix AS racer with AS man, outside the track.

Outside the track, you said everything.

[Dennis David]

When he was racing you always looked for him. It was like him against the rest. His intensity was at time frightening yet he had a charisma that none of the drivers today have. He could really make you feel what he was thinking in the car or what it meant to race. Berger gets asked to compare Senna and Schumacher all of the time and I won't go into it here but he keeps getting back to his record of Poles when it was just him against the track. To think that he had to go up gainst a teammate of the quality of Prost is hard to imagine. Can you imagine Schumacher and Hakinen on the same team with neither willing to give an inch. It was competing against Prost and to a lesser extent Mansell that made Senna.

[Antti]

Death makes you immortal. I have been a fan of Formula 1 for more than thirty years. And you see it over and over again. The best example is propably not Senna, since he would be in the hall of fame even if he would be alive. Two guys come into my mind as perfect examples of glorifying effect of death - namely Gilles Villeneuve and Ronnie Peterson. Both were good drivers, no doubt, but they were not considered to be way above others of their time.

Come on, oldtimers. If in the seventies somebody would have said, that Ronnie Peterson is remembered more than Jackie Stewart or Emerson Fittipaldi most of the fans would have considered the person to be derainged. Or later that Gilles Villeneuve would be remembered over Nelson Piquet...

The only thing MS needs to do to achieve the status of unofficial God of Formula fans is to die...

Cheers

Antti

[mhferrari]

I always enjoyed his racing style of never giving up and putting all of his effort into it, instead of using tactics, he got the job done himselg.

[magic]

1.
i never realised that peterson too had become a legend in the last twenty years.
my first gp was peterson's last finish in '78, zandvoort.
peterson gaining easily on andretti (mario's car having exhaustproblems) but staying behind.
peterson thinking of teamorders and that he would become champ in '79 anyway.
unlike gilles there are no statues, paintings etc dedicated to him.
maybe because the swedes are too cool or was it because his star had faded during his post-lotus years (march & tyrell).

2.
senna.
raging.
passion, speed, anger, agression, carcontrol, dedication, driven, fanatism, merciless, cold, cool, calculating, arrogent, hardworking, fast, bloody fast, spoiled and robbed many times.

had great duels with prost, in '84'85'86'87'88.
hunting the best driver of all time.
never touching, only intimidating, outbraking, outperforming, outpsyching and outwitting the professeur.

qualifying monaco '88
1.senna 1.23.998
2.prost. 1.25.425
3.berger 1.26.685
qualifying monaco '89
1.senna 1.22.308
2.prost. 1.23.456
3.boutsen 1.24.332

prost finally cracking at suzuka '89.
prost ramming first.
prost ramming first.prost ramming first.prost ramming first.prost ramming first.prost ramming first.prost ramming first.prost ramming first.prost ramming first.prost ramming first.prost ramming first.prost ramming first.prost ramming first.prost ramming first.prost ramming first.prost ramming first.prost ramming first.prost ramming first.prost ramming first.prost ramming first.prost ramming first.prost ramming first.prost ramming first.prost ramming first.prost ramming first.prost ramming first.prost ramming first.prost ramming first.prost ramming first.prost ramming first.prost ramming first.prost ramming first.prost ramming first.prost ramming first.prost ramming first.prost ramming first.

prost getting away with it.
not senna or gv, but prost gave guys like ms the alibi to ram.
suzuka '90 just a payback.

probably only those who experienced senna vs. prost understands why it's a huge shame senna died.

[AlesiGOD]

Senna was the best!

[scokim]

Magic - couldn't have said it better myself.

I was living in France during the Senna era and I can assure you Senna had more French fans than Prost did.

Suzuka 90 was a pay-back to Prost AND Balestre.

[senninha]

Magic and Scokim,

Good to explain to REAL things for new F1 fans.


"Racing, competing ... is in my blood. It's a part of me."

I think this sentence says a lot of Senna.

[Piquet_1]

I rarely liked Senna during this heyday, but had, like many, been awed by his 93 season. I'd detested him after 1990, and thought he should have been banned at least for a year after he hit Prost in Japan. However, by the end of 1993 I was enjoying the changes to his personality (like Schumacher today he appeared to be maturing and becoming a mroe likeable guy to many) and looked forward to him breaking all the records - I felt he deserved it and I recognised him as perhaps the greatest (as opposed to "best" which, though perhaps true, is too arguable) F1 driver in the history of the sport. If any driver can be bigger than the sport, he was, and the changes which came about due to his death were expected by myself, and couldn't have been brought about by any other driver's passing. Please keep in mind, these thoughts were mine PRIOR to his death, not afterwards. Yes, his name is greater now, but it doesn't exclude the guy's presence before he died.

Some drivers, as Jayway mentions in regards to Moore, get their reputations boosted after their death. Senna, IMO, has not been.

[westendorf]

Sempre SENNA!! Ciao, GFW

[luskiiimj]

Regarding Greg Moore, I don't think he was anything more than a slighly above average driver. The Players car was good enough that, had he been a good driver, he could have proved it. I was watching that race and was upset when he died. However, I do not feel that we must glorify his talent in order to feel sorry about his death.

[silver fan]

Jim Morrison -"Death makes angels of us all..."

Never any arguement that at the time of his death, Senna was universally respected as a driver, if not liked by all. However his attitude out of the car both to the press and fellow drivers when he didn't get his way or others took exception to his actions was often no different than what you would expect from a spoilt petulant child.

One point that is often brought up, that pervesly enough I find oddly amusing, is that the world came to a shuddering halt when he was killed. Comparisons to the killing of JFK were not uncommen. In '94 I was still serving in the British Army and I can assure you that the "world" didn't stop. It didn't stop for the genocide taking place in Bosnia at the time to say nothing of Rhwanda. It perhaps merely serves to illustrate how wrapped up in itself F1 is that it actually thinks that the death of a racing driver however great actually matters in the overall scheme of things...I'm sorry but it doesn't. This is not I hasten to add meant to in any way denegrate the memory of one of the greatest drivers the sport has ever seen but rather an attempt to add a little perspective.

[theMot]

Because he died people remember him better than he was. He's still one of the greatest but he lacked the consistancy a cool that Prost had. Thats what wins you Championships and races and at the end of the day F1 is a business and its what you need to do to make the $$$.

[Billy]

theMot,

can you give a few examples of Senna's "lack of consistency" which cost him "championships and races"?

[theMot]

Not really,

you win, i couldnt be ****ed arguing tonight. im in a **** of a mood.

[silver fan]

I think it would be hard if not impossible to argue that he lost championships as a result of a lack of consistancy. However in '92 and '93 there were certainly quite a few races where even a casual observer could see he was giving rather less than 100%. '93 in particular the entire mid-season Senna appeared almost disinterested. It wasn't until Hakkinen got his chance in the second Mac in Portugal that Senna woke up again and put in performances to equal that which we saw in the first few races of the season most notibly Donnington.

Granted the Williams were quicker but compare his efforts to Schumacher during the middle part of the season and it's clear that Schumacher was driving the wheels off the Bennetton while Senna appeared to be marking time probably thinking about '94 and the free ride to a 4th world title in a Williams Renault. The Belgian GP illustrates my point perfectly. Had the auto-start on Schumi's Bennetton not failed and consequently dropped him back to the rear of the field he would in all likelyhood have won that race easily. As it was he caught and passed Prost only to run out of laps before Hill would have suffered the same fate. Schumacher in an inferior car was on that day demonstably the best driver buy a "country mile". Senna on the other hand in a similarly powered McLaren finished a lap adrift. Senna might not have had a car to match the Williams on the power circuits but then neither did Schumacher. The difference was Schumacher never gave up trying.

[Williams]

Like many other drivers, Senna seemed to be two different people in and out of the car. Undoubtedly he was one of the hardest men ever on the track, and definitely was willing to risk far too much in order to achieve his goals, and as Spot said, was not willing to accept that another driver could win in front of him sometimes. That was his charm and his curse.

But off the track, Senna seemed to be an amazingly caring personality. Though many people quote the fact that he gave to charities and so on, I always look to stories of his personal relationships to see what sort of person he was, and there are many instances where, as long as he wasn;t dealing with a rival, Senna went out of his way in consideration for others.

One is example is Derick Warwick, whose career was effectively quashed by Senna's refusal to let Warwick drive at Lotus with him. Yet Senna was not afraid to face Warwick afterwards and explain his decision, and even apologised, and to this day Warwick says he bears no grudge against Senna, and in fact says that after the funeral, Senna's mother said to him "Derek, you know Ayerton always held a special place in his heart for you", and later wrote a letter to him to that same effect.

Another example is a story of a young mother who managed to arrange an meeting with Senna for her young son, who was crazy about the driver. They waited in the McLaren pits for him, and Senna turned up a bit late. He had to break away from the media, who were calling to him that he was required at some sort of media scrum, saying he had somthing else to do first. He then apologized for being late, explaining he had had a car problem which he had to discuss with his machanics, and, in the middle of the race weekend, World Champion Formula One Driver Ayrton Senna sat and talked to a small boy for a while, who had no better response than to nod his head at everything Senna said or asked, so stunned was he to be actually meeting his hero.

The mother took a photo of the boy and Senna together. A team rep later contacted her asking for a copy of the picture for Senna, which she sent, and later received back a handwritten reply of thanks from Senna for the picture, saying it was the best fan picture he had ever received. The mother said Senna had been brilliant with the little boy.

The interesting thing was, this mother was a James Hunt and Nigel Mansell fan (the boy was named James after Hunt), and had previously detested Senna. After meeting him in person, her opinion of the man changed 180 degrees.
[p][Edited by Williams on 11-29-2000]

[Simioni]

silver fan,

What you say is partially true, but you really can't blame Senna for needing some motivation can you? He was no longer a kid. Schumacher had a whole lot more to prove. Also, midway through the 93 season mclaren had badly fallen behind benetton. It was not only Hakkinen appearing that made Senna wake up, it was the developments made by mclaren in estoril which allowed the car to be competitive again. Had mclaren not slumped midseason and Senna not lost a few crucial second places due to mech. failure, Senna would nevere have been out of the running for the championship. I guess that's the only motivation he needed.

[CONOSUR]

Originally posted by Cociani
The era of Senna brought on a wave of unsporting attitudes to f1 which we have still not shaken. It used to be a gentlemens sport now it has become filled up with many gready unethical spoiled brats. People learn from example and though Senna was brilliant in his driving ability he set a bad example for up and comming drivers.

This is so true. Though the man was a genious behind the wheel, he did a great disservice to the sport with his win-at-all-costs attitude.

Originally posted by majic
..prost ramming first.prost ramming first.prost ramming first... ...suzuka '90 just a payback

If you didn't see it live, then look at the tape. Prost had the line into corner in '89. In his attempt to pass, Senna drove down the pit exit lane til it ended expecting Prost to concede, then drove straight into Prost.

After restarting (illegally) from last place, he then proceeded to drive one of the most magnificent races of all time. Too bad. It all was for naught. What a shame.

In '90 he INTENTIONALLY crashed his teammate out in order to win(?) a champion(?)ship. This is hardly the stuff of champions. This is part of what Cociani was talking about with regards to unsporting attitudes.

The man was the fastest DRIVER of his day, bar none, as proven by his 65 poles, but when it came to race day, Senna was not always the fastest RACER as pointed out by fast laps.

The worst disservice paid to Senna, though is naming all these chicanes after him instead of long straights or high speed curves. He deserves to have his name linked to something fast, not slow.

Senna was just like a coin... two sided. You never knew which one you'd see on race day; the great driver, or the unsporting racer.

"Of course...that's just my opinion." DM

[Billy]

Originally posted by CONOSUR
The man was the fastest DRIVER of his day, bar none, as proven by his 65 poles, but when it came to race day, Senna was not always the fastest RACER as pointed out by fast laps.

If you are an aggressive driver you get into the lead and control the pace of the race. Others have to set fast laps to catch you.

Kilometres led
1988 AS 2671, AP 1951
1989 AS 2297, AP 1218

Fastest laps
1988 AP 7, AS 3
1989 AP 5, AS 3

[magic]

conosur

by the time prost was posting fastest laps, senna was signalled to 'SLOW', leading bigtime.

i saw the suzuka'89 finale live, no surprises over here, and rewatched the incident a million times.
there is this helicoptershot, prost steering in for a non-existing corner, at 20 metres earlier going right than in the 50+ laps before.

it's more then well documented that prost admitted his foul many years later.

so what's your point?

[magic]

about that race, suzuka '89.

after the clumsy crash and a standstill, senna was pushed away by the marshalls, senna fired the engine, and motored on.
only to discover his frontwing was falling of the car, so he pitted and regained the lead by outbraking nannini at excactly the same spot where he was rammed by prost, and won the race.

his vic was taken from him and thus his chance for the '89 wdc only he deserved after beating prost crazy.

the world upside down.
the victim was punished, the crook got the laurels.
balestre threathening to take his license.
dennis unable to protest his own new wdc, prost.

senna, totally sickened by this french treat considered retirement but bounced back in '90 to finish prost.

this time no balestre running the fia and senna champ.

justice was done, people forgetting what made senna do it.
nobody played with senna's balls.

[senninha]

Originally posted by Simioni
silver fan,

What you say is partially true, but you really can't blame Senna for needing some motivation can you? He was no longer a kid. Schumacher had a whole lot more to prove. Also, midway through the 93 season mclaren had badly fallen behind benetton. It was not only Hakkinen appearing that made Senna wake up, it was the developments made by mclaren in estoril which allowed the car to be competitive again. Had mclaren not slumped midseason and Senna not lost a few crucial second places due to mech. failure, Senna would nevere have been out of the running for the championship. I guess that's the only motivation he needed.

Simioni,

Senna won 5 times in 93, whenever some driver, with big balls, won only 1 race... funny.



About Suzuka 89 :

AP - BEFORE THE RACE - "Today I must attack, and attack. Nothing more. In the past i had opened a lot of times the door for him. TODAY I WON'T DO THE SAME"

AP - AFTER THE RACE - "I always thing the race only could have two alternatives: or he started ahead or MUST FINISHED THAT WAY. This was my REGENGE on Ron (Dennis)"

AND PEOPLE SAYS SUZUKA 89 WAS NOT INTENCIONALLY !!!

[Billy]

Originally posted by silver fan
The Belgian GP illustrates my point perfectly. Had the auto-start on Schumi's Bennetton not failed and consequently dropped him back to the rear of the field he would in all likelyhood have won that race easily. As it was he caught and passed Prost only to run out of laps before Hill would have suffered the same fate. Schumacher in an inferior car was on that day demonstably the best driver buy a "country mile". Senna on the other hand in a similarly powered McLaren finished a lap adrift. Senna might not have had a car to match the Williams on the power circuits but then neither did Schumacher. The difference was Schumacher never gave up trying.

Autocourse gave comments after qualifying.

Ayrton Senna, meanwhile, was not impressed with the high-speed handling of his McLaren MP4/8, which seemed to have reached something of a performance plateau compared with the similarly powered Benetton B193Bs. Mika Hakkinen's efforts at an intensive Silverstone test session during the week immediately following the Hungarian Grand Prix has yielded little positive progress towards resolving the car's high speed handling defiencies.

Does anyone know how good was Hakkinen compared to Andretti as a test driver? Did Senna do any testing at all in 1993?

[magic]

senna had missed the williams boat after been tripped by prost.
senna considered a sabbitical and dennis wouldn't pay him what he was worth.
dennis not so happy to spend his millions on senna after senna offered his services to williams for free.

after trying the mac in the wintertests, liking it, he decided to race the car, but still wasn't happy about the money.

senna was on a 1 million-$-per-race-contract and flew in on fridaymorning, left after the race to pop up on fridaymorning 2 weeks later.

only after the brit gp, there was a real contract.
but still little testing.

[magic]

look what i found:

Bruce
Member 07-28-2000 04:00            
------------------------------------------------------------------------
....let me expand on the Senna Situation in 1990... To have any hope of winning the WDC, Senna had to win at Suzuka in 1989... then came the famous moment - Senna tried it on inside at the chicane and Prost said bugger that and moved on him - look at it from the overhead view - If Prost had finished his trajectory that launched him into Senna, he would have driven off the track before the apex. Fine. Senna maybe should have been wiser than to try it there, or maybe showed a lack of judgement, but Prost was to blame too.

In the aftermath, Senna was restarted and drove through the chicane, rejoining the track, and winning the race, keeping his chances alive. Senna was disqualified. Why? First, FISA said that Senna had carried out a "dangerous manoeuvre" - rubbish - he tried to pass on the inside - what else could he have tried? Next FISA said it was because he had missed the chicane, which was also contentious, as others, including Mansell had missed chicanes in similar circumstances earlier in the year and had gone unpunished. FISA also suddenly were flush with 6 other accusations about Senna's driving, amongst them the crash with Schlesser, with mansell in Portugal and Berger in Rio 1989 - why drag these up retrospectively? If these were really a problem, why were they not addressed at the time of the incident?

So, by Adelaide, Senna was out of the running for the WDC, as FISA had of course upheld their VERY specious dsq on him at Suzuka. In addition to this he was fined $100,000.00 and given a 6 month suspended sentence... for what? The cheek to appeal presumably... At any rate, the guy who had put Senna out of the 1989 WDC was awarded with the WDC, while Senna was raked over the coals, dsqed from a win, fined $100,000.00 and given a suspended sentence....

Popular opinion (and I'm sure Senna agreed,) had it that Balestere wasn't averse to having a French Champion in lieu of a Brazilian one... Thus when the next year, at the start of the Japanese race, Senna had an understanding with the organizers that the pole position should be on the clean side of the track (this before he secured pole) - after he got pole, apparently, FISA made it known that in fact pole would be on the dirty side of the track... well, once again the French seemed to be favouring the French...

[mikedeering]

DYing young gives you immortally and god like status - look at this situation from any arena - JFK, Marilyn Monroe, Jim Morrison, Diana etc - this is accepted.

Senna though was incredible. I love remembering the 1993 season - the guy was AWESOME in numerouse races - he beat MS in wins 5:1 - and Benetton had a better engine! I often wonder what Senna would have achieved.

I think it is safe to say he would have been WC in 94 - Hill was not anywhere near Senna - look at qualifying for the start of 1994, yet only lost by 1 point - so another WC for Senna.

1995 - another easy championship - Williams were still better than Benetton, and only lost due to their drivers.

After that who knows - retirement???

Adriane (his last girlf) said he wanted to drive for Ferrari, but who knows really? Others suggetsed he would return to McLaren. I think he would have retired - for 1996 neither McLaren or Ferrari looked good - Senna would have been 36 - time to hang up the helmet - 5 world titles (he would never have wanted to beat Fangion's record anyway and I guess 55 wins - 7 each in 94 and 95!)

Alas, he will remain on 3 WDC and 41 wins forever...

[kenny]

Amen Mike ;) !!!!

I also LOVE the 1993 season... was just amazing...