19 replies to this topic

[Don Capps]

With great fear for life and limb, in my capacity as Your Scribe and The Moderator of this Noble Gathering of The Assembled Eyes and Forum for the Truly Dedicated, Your Scribe is proud to announce the formation of The ATLAS F1 Nostalgia Forum Pantheon of Racers.

The criteria and rules are simple:

(1) The Nominees are first and foremost Racers.

(a) This means they were/are THE racers who caught and fired our imaginations.

(b) The nominees may come from any category of open-wheeled racing. This is best left to your interpretation of what that means -- in other words, this is the Gordon Murray part of the rules.

© Any decisions concerning questions of eligibility or any other aspect of this selection process is left entirely to the whim of The Moderator -- this is the Jean-Marie Balestre part of the rules.

(2) Only those Racers who have been retired from active driving in the formulae being considered as the source for their qualifying heroics for a minimum period of 15 years are eligible. This is not negotiable so don't ask. No whining since it is beneath one of The Assembled Eyes to do so.

(a)This requirement can be waived due to a death as a result of a racing accident to 10 years.

(b) This IS after all, The Nostalgia Forum... Duh!

(3) That there be no rank ordering of Heroes within the Pantheon. Either they make the cut or they don't. All Racers are equal in the Great Atlas Pantheon of Racers. Getting in is The Trick...

(4) You, Dear Reader -- The Assembled Eyes, get ONE, I say again, count 'em, ONE (1) shot at posting your nominations. Period. No alibis -- the first round downrange counts. No whining or sniveling -- see above.

(5) That nominations are limited to 10 (TEN) per participant.

(a) In subsequent years, this will be reduced to FIVE (5).

(b) This will be annual event held in early May of each year.

© The duty of Teller for this nomination process will rotate each year to one of The Assembled Eyes who least expects it...

(6) The nominations will open when this is posted and end on 13 May at 0001 Atlas Forum Time. No exceptions. See above.

(7) Not later than 48 hours after nominations close The Esteemed and Honorable Assembled Eyes of JHope -- you started this... -- will tally the votes and then provide Your Scribe & Moderator with a list of the names of all the nominees and their tally of votes.

(8) Discussion, of a calm, mature mature welcomed, but not on this thread. There will be a separate thread for discussion of those being considered for The Pantheon. Heed this well my Assembeled Eyes.

vox populi


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Yr fthfl & hmbl srvnt,

Don Capps

Semper Gumbi: If this was easy, we’d have the solution already…



[This message has been edited by Don Capps (edited 04-29-2000).]

[Brent]

Yeah wot-ever...

As you deserve a gold medal for your work at AtlasF1 why have you threaded this thread twice?

How fast are you?

[Don Capps]

Brent, this thread is for nominations and the Other Thread is for discussions.

10 second penalty and being forced to wear a button saying "I LUV JMB & Bernie" for the entire penalty....

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Yr fthfl & hmbl srvnt,

Don Capps

Semper Gumbi: If this was easy, we’d have the solution already…

[Keir]

I, being a devoted fan, nominate
Chris Amon.

FORZA AMON SEMPER AMON

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"I Was Born Ready"

[Joe Fan]

Since we get one shot at posting nominations and since we can nominate 10 drivers, then here goes in alphabetical order:


1) Rudolf Caracciola-pre-F1 great and three time Grand European champion. Won 16 major Grand Prix. Nuvolari's main rival.

2) Mark Donohue-scored a podium finish in his first F1 start. This has only been accomplished 13 times in F1's history. Winner of the 1972 Indy 500. Won quickly in anything that he ever drove. He could have been the greatest American driver of all-time had his career not been tragically cut short. He was the very first IROC champion in 1974 competing against the likes of Emerson Fittipaldi, Denny Hulme, A.J. Foyt, David Pearson, Richard Petty, etc.

3) Masten Gregory-American pioneer who scored a podium finish in his very first F1 start at Monaco in 1957, America's first. Once again, it has only been done 13 times in F1 history and if you are good coming out of the blocks, then you are really good. He finished 6th in the WDC point standings in his rookie season running in only half of the races and competing in a privateer Maserati running up against the factory teams of Ferrari, Maserati, Vanwall and BRM. He was one of the first Americans to compete regularly in F1 and therefore helped pave the way for the Phil Hills, Dan Gurneys, Richie Ginthers, etc. The record book and statistics sadly do not reflect his outstanding driving talent as his best F1 ride was as a number 3 driver at Cooper in 1959. If he would have ever been lucky enough to land a top ride, he could have been an American icon like Foyt, Petty and Andretti. Jim Clark considered him his hero. Won Le Mans in 1965.

4) Dan Gurney-road racing ace who was quick in anything on four wheels. One of the all-time greats in motorsports history. Jim Clark said he fear him the most of any driver he competed against. He became the second American to ever win a F1 race with his 1962 French Grand Prix victory.

5) Stirling Moss-greatest driver to never win a WDC. Proof that championships aren't always the best determinant of greatness. Great driver who lived to tell about it.

6) Jimmy Murphy-early 1920's Indy Car great who became the first American to win a European Grand Prix with an American car when he won the French Grand Prix in 1921. He also won the 1922 Indy 500 and was Indy Car champion in 1922 and 1924. He was killed in a race at Syracuse challenging for the lead in 1924. His racing career lasted only six seasons but what an outstanding six years it was. He still managed to win 19 Indy Car races in his very short career.

7) Tazio Nuvolari-the greatest driver of the pre-F1 era and perhaps of all-time. His accomplishments speak for themselves even fifty plus years ago.

8) Jean-Pierre Wimelle-pre-F1 great. Would have been WDC in 1947 and 1948 if statistics were retroactively included into F1 history like they should. Killed in practice for the 1949 Buenos Aires GP. Won Le Mans in twice. Fangio was his protege, does that say enough?

Plus, two more drivers that I am still debating about.



[This message has been edited by Joe Fan (edited 05-02-2000).]

[Brent]

"10 second penalty and being forced to wear a button saying "I LUV JMB & Bernie" for the entire penalty...."

Oh brilliant

[Michael M]

Wolfgang Graf Berghe von Trips. He was a great and talented driver. He is not receiving the attention he should have, because he never was world champion. But it not killed at Monza, the championship 1961 was his. A gentleman and fair sportsman, allowing Piero Taruffi to win the Mille Miglia 1957 with a wounded car, because this win was the only one missing for Taruffi. Taffy's own words: "His car was not running properly anymore, it was no fair battle anymore".

[Ray Bell]

A commendable gesture... in line with La Perouse not destroying the homes of the men from the fort in Hudson Bay in - was it 1786?, well, anyway.. The fort disarmed the men in retreat, he rejected his own men's urging to go on with it and said something to the effect: "An enemy conquered is no longer a foe, he then becomes a friend."
But I'm sure there was an argument here somewhere just a few days ago about Taffy and Phil and their title prospects if he had not died... Dennis was in on, I'm sure...

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Life and love are mixed with pain...

[Paul Hartshorne]

After due consideration, and on the understanding that we are emphasising RACERS, not tedious metronomes, my 10 votes go to, in alphabetical order:

1. Jean Behra. The spirit of La France, tough, brave and independant. He beat Ferrari with a Gordini!

2. Stefan Bellof. Yes, most of his success came outside of open-wheel racing, but only because he never had a good Grand Prix car.

3. Eugenio Castellotti. Well, I could hardly promote his virtues in another thread and then ignore him here, could I? Yes, he regularly destroyed his car's tyres. That was because he was a racer!

4. Jim Clark. See Joe Fan's vote above. He could adapt to anything, roadcourses, ovals, 4wd, even rallying (well, sort of!).

5. Juan-Manuel Fangio. See Joe Fan's vote. He was so good, he was EXPECTED to win, therefore becoming under-rated.

6. Graham Hill. Another of Joe Fan's choices. He lost lustre in the fan's eye because it was felt that he raced on too long. He raced on because he loved it, because he was a racer!

7. Willy Mairesse. Everybody needs an out-of-left-field choice! Seriously, Willy was penalised in the 1955 Monte Carlo Rally for GOING TOO FAST! Always exciting, he lived to race.

8. Stirling Moss. Yet another of Joe Fan's choices (I'm making it easy for Jhope!). Stirling couldn't stop himself from driving flat-out. His career-ending accident came when he was charging whilst laps down on the leader.

9. Ronnie Peterson. Ronnie didn't care whether his car was on new tyres, old tyres, high-downforce, low-downforce, he drove them all the same, flat out!

10. Gilles Villeneuve. Ronnie mk2! Amazing car-control and fearlessly determined.

[Alfisti]

Due to my inexperience i don't have 10 but from what i have read and seen over the past few years i nominate the following:

Ascari
Novulari
Clark
Moss
Fangio
Stewart
and my bolter is Surtees


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"Life will not break your heart, it'll crush it" - Henry Rollins.

[Dennis David]

Here is my list.
1. Tazio Nuvolari.
2. Rudolf Caracciola
3. Juan-Manuel Fangio
4. Ayrton Senna
5. Stirling Moss
6. Jimmy Clark
7. Bernd Rosemeyer
8. Achille Varzi
9. Jackie Stewart
10. Mario Andretti

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Regards,

Dennis David
Grand Prix History

Life is racing, the rest is waiting

[This message has been edited by Dennis David (edited 04-30-2000).]

[The Sleeper]

Hi, I'm just reading this forum for the first time after being on the readers' comments for a few days. I think these drivers should be in the hall of fame here. So without the champions who are already in the "official" hall.

1. Gilles Villeneuve
2. Ronnie Peterson
3. Stirling Moss
4. Tazio Nuvolari
5. Rudolf Caracciola
6. Bernd Rosemeyer
7. Manfred von Brauchitsch
8. Achille Varzi
9. Wolfgang von Trips
10. Rene Arnoux

[Duane]

Alas, Rene only retired at the end of 89, making him four years short of the 15 year requirement.
Is Lauda eligible this year? He retired at the end of the 85 season so technically it has been 15 years.

Anyway, here's my list in no particular order:

1. Tazio Nuvolari
2. Rudolf Caracciola
3. Bernd Rosemeyer
4. Achille Varzi
5. Alberto Ascari
6. Juan-Manuel Fangio
7. Stirling Moss
8. Jim Clark
9. Jackie Stewart
10. Ronnie Peterson

Mario Andretti would have made my list, but his long carrer in CART excludes him under the must be retired 15 years rule.



[This message has been edited by Duane (edited 05-01-2000).]

[Leif Snellman]

Ok, following the NEW nonchampion rules here are my 10 drivers (in alphabetical order):

S Bellof
R Caracciola
D Gurney
H Lang
S Moss
T Nuvolari
R Peterson
B Rosemeyer
A Varzi
G Villeneuve


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Leif Snellman
The Golden Era of Grand Prix Racing
http://www.kolumbus.fi/leif.snellman

[Vercertorix]

1. Caracciola
2. Nuvolari
3. Ascari pere
4. Ascari fils
5. Fangio
6. Moss
7. Clark
8. G. Hill
9. Stewart
10. Lauda

[ZippyD]

Jim Clark
Gilles Villeneuve
Niki Lauda
Chris Amon
Innes Ireland
Graham Hill
Jack Brabham
James Hunt
Ronnie Peterson
Mario Andretti

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"I want to tell you something, not about the others but about myself."
"When I saw something like that I used to go to pieces."
"But I'm older now. When I see something really terrible I put my foot down. HARD! Because I know the other person is lifting his."
"What a terrible way to win."
"Cher mademoiselle, there is no terrible way to win. There is only winning."

[Martyj]

In no particular order:

Gurney

Siffert

G. Villenueve

Pedro Rodriguez

Peter Revson -- Too often overlooked, but besting Hulme in the CanAm and almost always upfront in the McLaren in 72/73 indicates that this guy was to be taken seriously

Tony Brooks -- Remember, he won a lot of races (6) and didn't compete in F1 for that long. AND he did it against the likes of Moss and Brabham.

John Watson -- If the car was right, he could always be found up front. Extra credit for beating James Hunt and the Ferraris in a Penski, of all things

Gonzalas

Peterson

Finally, the obvious non-champion -- Moss

[Duane]

For Non World Drivers Champions:

1. Tazio Nuvolari
2. Rudolf Caracciola
3. Bernd Rosemeyer
4. Achille Varzi
5. Hans Stuck Snr.
6. Dan Gurney
7. Stirling Moss
8. Stefan Bellof
9. Gilles Villeneuve
10. Ronnie Petersen

[Joe Fan]

Note: Any driver who has won a WDC is automatically already in the Pantheon club. Those who have casted votes for drivers who have alreay won a WDC may re-cast votes for other drivers. See Don's lastest post.

[This message has been edited by Joe Fan (edited 05-01-2000).]

[Don Capps]

To make life easier for ALL involved, particularly Mark, I am locking this thread and opening the Real thread for The Pantheon. You can just copy and paste if you wish from here to there...

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Yr fthfl & hmbl srvnt,

Don Capps

Semper Gumbi: If this was easy, we’d have the solution already…