190 replies to this topic

[VresiBerba]

If they split it, they need to have one car from each team to make it fair.

So like Q1 of 'A' cars for 20 minutes, Q2 of 'B' cars for 20 minutes, and then Q3 for the normal top 10, with the top 5 advancing from each session.

So instead of having a single session of traffic issues with slower cars, we have two sessions of traffic issues with slower cars. True, there will be fewer cars on the track and thereby easing up the situations a little bit, but since it's a knock-out system someone will always get the shaft and that could very well be because of traffic, just like running a single session.

What a stupid idea by the teams, just get on with it.

[SmercH]

But, they had a whole hour, not 20 minutes. It makes a difference, because the Fortis, Simteks and Pacifics did not need to be on track when the big teams were doing their runs.

So, Simteks and Fortis are not entitled to go out when track conditions are at its best?

And if there were no wheather changes predicted then all teams anyway sit in boxes for 45 minutes and went out only in last 15 minutes, so basicaly current situation is not any different traffic-wise than it was in mid 90ies.

Actually the current qualy system is the most fair option possible. The only situation where big guns can be distracted by slower cars is in Q1, where it does not effect their starting position, all they have to do is set a semi-decent lap to get to Q2. When the real positions are decided, the field is already reduced to 10 cars. That's much better than in old days when you could be blocked in dying minutes of qulaifying by a Minardi and lose almost ten places because of that. All big teams should have easily go through Q1, all they have to do is stay more on track and try until they can produce a good enaugh lap, it even has not to be a good one, as they will likely have a gap of second or more to P17. The knock-out format produced surprises only when there were some technical problems or some teams were simply too arrogant and overconfident.

I hope there is no change for Monaco GP qualy.

[thiscocks]

So, Simteks and Fortis are not entitled to go out when track conditions are at its best?

And if there were no wheather changes predicted then all teams anyway sit in boxes for 45 minutes and went out only in last 15 minutes, so basicaly current situation is not any different traffic-wise than it was in mid 90ies.

Actually the current qualy system is the most fair option possible. The only situation where big guns can be distracted by slower cars is in Q1, where it does not effect their starting position, all they have to do is set a semi-decent lap to get to Q2. When the real positions are decided, the field is already reduced to 10 cars. That's much better than in old days when you could be blocked in dying minutes of qulaifying by a Minardi and lose almost ten places because of that. All big teams should have easily go through Q1, all they have to do is stay more on track and try until they can produce a good enaugh lap, it even has not to be a good one, as they will likely have a gap of second or more to P17. The knock-out format produced surprises only when there were some technical problems or some teams were simply too arrogant and overconfident.

I hope there is no change for Monaco GP qualy.

Exactly 100% balls-on accurate.

Edited by thiscocks, 07 May 2010 - 11:33.

[VresiBerba]

It's only the 3 new teams that would be likely to get their own mini session, as they're 2-3 seconds slower than the slowest of the regular teams.

But there are seven cars to be eliminated in Q1, so who will be the seventh car to join the six slowest? And what will they qualify about, places between 17th and 24th, how would that be fair

[VresiBerba]

I foresee the GPDA whinging about safety in which case who knows what the FIA will do.

GPDA complained about Variente Ascari a few years ago on grounds of safety, and the FIA basically told them to go and stuff it.

[Tony Mandara]

What made me laugh about this is (yet again!) Jarno Truili claiming it could be dangerous!

I wish Jarno would stop trying to play the safety card. (Safe-erty as EJ would say! )

Dangerous for 20 mins of qualifying, but not for an hour and a half of racing proper??!

Sort it out Jarno!

[Ferrim]

What. The. Hell.

One of the most stupid proposals we have seen in F1 (and that's to say a lot!) and there are lots of people on this thread supporting it?

Traffic is not fair. F1 is not fair. LIFE is NOT fair, for God's sake. If someone gets stuck behind a slower car, so be it. It's up to the team to decide what the best moment to qualify is, and it's harder to get it right at Monaco: so be it.

Any other thing is a travesty.

I will add that we had 22 cars with knock-out qualifying at Monaco in 2006, two of which were as slow as the current Lotus, Virgin & HRT, and another two weren't that much quicker, and NOTHING happened. All the favourites went through Q1 (apart from Massa, but that was because of a driver mistake, no blocking by slow cars).

Edited by Ferrim, 07 May 2010 - 14:45.

[MadYarpen]

i don't really care. Qualy isn't about a lot of cars driving at once, so where is the problem. And I don't like all this traffic-moaning after Q, so let it be.

[David M. Kane]

The GPDA will sort it out amongst themselves and/or Jean Todt will do something sensible.

I'm not in favor of expensive wrecks; that what we got Salon racing for.

[Sakae]

Except that the big teams would wait until the last 10 minutes to do their runs and still bitch about traffic.

At least they would have a choice if and when they can get out. Now if you don't get track space in first (mandated) 20 min, you can leave the race track, because there is no point to wait for Sunday.

[buffbuff]

I do think there will be big problems with traffic if they keep the current rules and I don't care if they make a change or not, but what I don't want to see is qualifying and then find out a few hours later drivers have been dropped down the grid.

[Buttoneer]

At least they would have a choice if and when they can get out. Now if you don't get track space in first (mandated) 20 min, you can leave the race track, because there is no point to wait for Sunday.

Watch this weekend and I guarantee there will be a quiet period from around 8 minutes in until 3 minutes to go. It's a standard pattern and all the teams need to do is go when it's quiet.

Hamilton and Alonso have both made a lie of the idea that progress through the field is impossible. Even at Monaco there are opportunities to pass.

[Nustang70]

This only goes to show how absurdly sanitized things have become.

Let them sort it out the old fashioned way. If they complain that 20 minutes isn't a large enough window to get a decent lap in, then expand Q1 to an hour if need be. As others have said, I don't really think it will matter as most of the action will still be saved for the final minutes.

[wewantourdarbyback]

They used to run 28 cars in one session.

I was about to say the very same thing.

[Burai]

At least they would have a choice if and when they can get out. Now if you don't get track space in first (mandated) 20 min, you can leave the race track, because there is no point to wait for Sunday.

They had a choice when to go out in Malaysia and still ballsed it up.

[JPW]

Not surprising Charlie has told the drivers/GPDA they have no say in this matter and left it up to the teams to agree unanimously.

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/83401

[Fastcake]

Not surprising Charlie has told the drivers/GPDA they have no say in this matter and left it up to the teams to agree unanimously.

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/83401

As if the teams will agree

[Kelateboy]

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/83341

They want it split, because of there being 24 cars, with 3 teams being massively slower than the rest, and so a bigger risk in Q1 of a faster car coming up behind a very slow car from Virgin or whoever, and smashing into them. What do you guys reckon?

Disagree with the idea to have 2 split Q1s. There is enough time in Q1 for the teams to time their run so that they don't run into a slower team. But if everybody waits till the last minute to do their flying laps, that's the risk that they choose to take. If they get screwed, so be it.

[Disgrace]

Time for everyone to man up, fuel up and stay out for the entire 20 minutes of Q1 and guarantee a lap.

[PayasYouRace]

Time for everyone to man up, fuel up and stay out for the entire 20 minutes of Q1 and guarantee a lap.

That's actually the worst thing to do. You'd be less likely to find space for a lap with everyone on track at the same time. Basically everyone would spend the entire session getting in everyone else's way.

[PNSD]

As mentioned on the BBC FP feed, comparing to previous years is silly...

They had 1 hour or more to get a lap, now its 24 cars 20 mins.

And BBC also mentioned it was Bruno Senna who thought of the idea, because he didnt want to be on the recieving end of say a hot headed Alonso (ie like in China) being an impatient tw*t and assuming because he's in a red car everybody should get out the way regardless if the other driver is on a hot lap or not.

Its a good idea.

[SmercH]

As mentioned on the BBC FP feed, comparing to previous years is silly...

They had 1 hour or more to get a lap, now its 24 cars 20 mins.

And in most cases the first 45 minutes we had an empty track. So it's not different at all.

[Jazza]

As mentioned on the BBC FP feed, comparing to previous years is silly...

They had 1 hour or more to get a lap, now its 24 cars 20 mins.

And BBC also mentioned it was Bruno Senna who thought of the idea, because he didnt want to be on the recieving end of say a hot headed Alonso (ie like in China) being an impatient tw*t and assuming because he's in a red car everybody should get out the way regardless if the other driver is on a hot lap or not.

Its a good idea.

Back in the one hour years, everyone was track in the last 5-10 mins anyway. Not to mention that is you go back far enough in time, the gap between the fastest cars and the midfield is about the same as the Red Bull and the lotus teams today. The back of the grid was even slower, and there was 26 cars not 24.

The other thing that seems to be over looked is that today the teams have so much track info that they can pin point every car within a few meters on track. The drivers and teams had much less info to work with in years past.

In other words, if they could make qualifying work 20 years ago, they do not need to split it now.

[VresiBerba]

As mentioned on the BBC FP feed, comparing to previous years is silly... They had 1 hour or more to get a lap, now its 24 cars 20 mins.

They also qualified for pole back then whereas today they 'only' qualify for... hm, let's see

17 positions!

Surly the pinnacled drivers of F1 today could be arsed to fit in a 17th best time in 20 farking minutes!

[Kelateboy]

They also qualified for pole back then whereas today they 'only' qualify for... hm, let's see

17 positions!

Surly the pinnacled drivers of F1 today could be arsed to fit in a 17th best time in 20 farking minutes!

+1

[midgrid]

Jonathan Legard has just said that qualifying at Monaco will follow standard procedure.

[krapmeister]

Monaco is going to be fun with the backmarkers...

[midgrid]

Monaco qualifying to remain unchanged

So Tony Fernandes was one of those opposed to the deal, no surprise there really.

[Sausage]

Yeah bloody stupid, but that's what you get for being democratic: the worst of the lot will always drag the rest down.

[noikeee]

You'll all stop bitching when Q1 comes up - relax and don't worry because it's going to be fun.

[Captain Tightpants]

it's going to be fun.

Indeed. It's a shame I won't get it live.

[jswalker1963]

I'd like to see them do this:

Cars with odd numbers go out for the first session, even numbers the second. Eliminate the slowest 4 from each session.

Session 3 would then proceed as if it were a normal weekend session 2.

Each team would have one car and driver in each session ,and traffic would be halved.

[SeanValen]

I have no issue with it. It keeps qualifying safe and fair. They should have a "Q0" session for the new teams, and then eliminate eight cars in Q1.

Sounds like a good idea to me. There's never been the need for 24 cars to qualify in 20 minutes at Monaco before and it could get a bit hectic. As long as they have a fair system to decide who goes in which group it's OK with me.

I'm quite worried about Q1. I think And I think QO for the new teams, a one off for Monaco would be ideal for them and everyone else on safety grounds, just seeing how much competition we got from the big teams, someone is very likely to get it wrong with traffic, but maybe that's what Bernie wants, a top team-driver being a fall guy, getting angry and forced to make his way up the grid, it's a unsporting way to entice entertainmant. Schumacher was at the back for different reasons in 2005/2006 and his drive through the field helped the race spectacle, I think Bernie wants someone like Schumacher again, maybe Hamilton to get badluck and come through the back.

Monaco is exclusive, it is dangerous, we've been lucky with it, but the quali rules don't help matters to avoid a ugly scene.

I'd like to see them do this:

Cars with odd numbers go out for the first session, even numbers the second. Eliminate the slowest 4 from each session.

Session 3 would then proceed as if it were a normal weekend session 2.

Each team would have one car and driver in each session ,and traffic would be halved.

Good idea

Edited by SeanValen, 14 May 2010 - 06:57.

[pgj]

Because then we would have 45 minutes of empty track as everyone will wait for track getting more rubber. And after haotic last 15 minutes with all 24 cars on track there will be complaining about traffic. So nothing would change... One might think that "big teams" should have learned from last season and do "banker laps", but Malaysia 2010 proved that it's clearly not the case.

Then they would have no excuse for a poor qualifying performance. I don't like the race anyway. I would like to see the drivers' concerns being noted by moving the race to Imola.

[demoing]

looking forward to qually as it will be one of those times when the cars have to be out on track trying to to find that clear lap rather than sat in the pits till the last 6 mins.
a decision that should benefit us the fans.
after all dont we want to see the cars out on track not in the pits waiting for the last few mins?

[mtknot]

Let them sort it out the old fashioned way. If they complain that 20 minutes isn't a large enough window to get a decent lap in, then expand Q1 to an hour if need be. As others have said, I don't really think it will matter as most of the action will still be saved for the final minutes.

You do realise back when there were huge grids, the wake of another car did not really affect anything?

[CaptnMark]

You do realise back when there were huge grids, the wake of another car did not really affect anything?

Maybe that's one thing that will force teams to fix the aero.

[noikeee]

Did that look like a huge lottery or safety risk?

[MadYarpen]

so turned out to be ok. What was this whining about?

[Tenmantaylor]

Exactly, it was fine. Lewis and Kubica got good laps ruined but by being sensible and getting out early it wasn't a problem.

For Q2 we've lost 7 cars and 5 minutes of time. A car/qual time ratio not far off Q1 but no whinging about Q2.

24 > 17 = 1.411

20 > 15 = 1.333

Proves it was only about the pace of the new teams I suppose.

Edited by Tenmantaylor, 15 May 2010 - 12:31.

[Ferrim]

I'm happy that it proved what I thought about this whole "danger".

Q2 had a far bigger risk of someone losing a good lap because of traffic, the times being so much closer than in Q1.