121 replies to this topic

[Lights]

In 2009 Force India has top speed advantage to Ferrari.

Ah so I guess that's why he drove around him on a straight.

My point was, they're not on acceleration nor braking, but straight line speed. Perhaps I shoudl've said that instead of top speed.

2006 Renault against Ferrari? I assume Ferrari was quicker.

Well for starters, it was 2005. And ok, there was quite some skill involved (mainly letting Schumacher lift to avoid a crash). But again, the move wasn't made on acceleration or braking. Straight line speed + slipstream.

[One]

Could you show me the speed trap table for the years?

BTW For me this is a on going topic. There was elsewhere spoken about the elevation change. After Eau Rouge, huge climbing, the car's aero and drive train is being tested, Radillon, the immediate successive 'left hander' corner is not straight, Kemmel is. Kimi's car accelerate through these corners and over take is done at the beginning of the kemmel.

At 130R brakes like you say, while Alonso have not, so it it neither a top speed.

[OO7]

The only trouble with having both those layouts at one time is that it's going to look really messy.

I don't think so personally. The end of the Campsa bend was reprofiled for the 1995 F1 season, making it slower than it was in 1993. The effect of this change was a slower Campsa as mentioned and the Nissan chicane was bypassed. The Nissan chicane remains unaltered and it doesn't make the circuit look messy at all in my book.
A few years ago La Caixa was altered as well, but the orginal layout was left for the bikes as see here:

and here:

Again I don't think it makes the track look messy.

Edited by Obi Offiah, 12 May 2010 - 13:54.

[Captain Tightpants]

They don't look messy - but when you've got two layouts that are close together to he point were they're constantly criss-corssing and re-joinging with one another, it will.

[OO7]

Why keep the current one for bikes though? That one looks simply better.

Campsa in it current guise is a great corner for the bikes and cars. If they made the corner even faster (so the F1 cars could take it flat while in tow), it would be an even greater challenge for the bikes, but for the cars it would be about as challenging as the kink in the straight at Turkey. I live in hope that one day the cars will be sorted out. If that does happen it would nice to still have challenging corners at circuits for the drivers and spectators to enjoy.

[OO7]

I thank you for your kind comments. Could yo elaborate more about the differences between the bike and the car racing tracks?

Even better I'll post a picture :

The bikes could use the original or the new Camspa layout.

They don't look messy - but when you've got two layouts that are close together to he point were they're constantly criss-corssing and re-joinging with one another, it will.

Thats true, but as you can see in the change to Campsa above, the solution is exactly the same as at La Caixa, with one corner inside the other.

[Lights]

Campsa in it current guise is a great corner for the bikes and cars. If they made the corner even faster (so the F1 cars could take it flat while in tow), it would be an even greater challenge for the bikes, but for the cars it would be about as challenging as the kink in the straight at Turkey. I live in hope that one day the cars will be sorted out. If that does happen it would nice to still have challenging corners at circuits for the drivers and spectators to enjoy.

Well, do you want challenging or overtaking?

[Captain Tightpants]

Thats true, but as you can see in the change to Campsa above, the solution is exactly the same as at La Caixa, with one corner inside the other.

I was referring more to an earlier one, which had changes to most of the corners - but those changes pretty much ran alongside the existing circuit.

[OO7]

Well, do you want challenging or overtaking?

Thats my point of having two options. With cars as they are currently the faster Campsa is the better option for overtaking. If they fix the cars the orginal Campsa would better, because it would still be challenging, but cars could follow each other closely and still overtake into La Caixa. Effectively they can choose which version to run.

[teejay]

Relegate it to a testing only circuit.

[OO7]

I was referring more to an earlier one, which had changes to most of the corners - but those changes pretty much ran alongside the existing circuit.

If your refering to the following layout by One:

I assumed the orginal parts of the circuit would be removed completely, just like they've done with circuits like the Österreichring and Hockenheim.

[Lights]

Thats my point of having two options. With cars as they are currently the faster Campsa is the better option for overtaking. If they fix the cars the orginal Campsa would better, because it would still be challenging, but cars could follow each other closely and still overtake into La Caixa. Effectively they can choose which version to run.

True but having cars that can follow each other closely is not likely to happen. So having two options.. nah, I dunno.

[OO7]

True but having cars that can follow each other closely is not likely to happen. So having two options.. nah, I dunno.

I still have hope ;). Anyway by having two options what do you lose?

[ViMaMo]

Just race only on old Hockenheim/Monza since cars cant do any **** following another thro a corner.

Edited by vivian, 13 May 2010 - 06:35.

[f1rules]

I think they need do a proper hairpin like this

[Lights]

Nah that just ruins it. The actual hairpin that's there now isn't that bad, the problem is Campsa before.

[ViMaMo]

A long straight followed by a hairpin will not produce overtaking.
Its the corner leading onto the main straight thats much more important, examples:

1. Parabolica and Curve Grande at Monza
2. Eau Rouge and Blanchimont at Spa
3. 130R at Suzuka

All are medium-high speed corners that are flowing.

[mtknot]

The real problems of the track are the long, flowing corners such as the one after the first chicane. This is because cornering here is so aero dependent. I don't think barcelona or any tracks need redesigning, rather the cars themselves.

I think with the single deck diffusers next year we'll actually see some action.

Most of these changes posted here disregard the position of grandstands...

There is no problem with the final chicane, rather a problem with what comes before. Instead of a straight where one can draft the other car, you have a long corner, which has the propensity to distance the cars.

I'd reprofile the track to be similar to something like melbourne.

[froggy22]

In 2009 Force India has top speed advantage to Ferrari.

2006 Renault against Ferrari? I assume Ferrari was quicker.

Kimi used KERS to overtake Fisi

[OO7]

I think with the single deck diffusers next year we'll actually see some action.

I hope this does happen, but I'm not that optimistic. In 2009, I didn't notice any difference in the ablity of the non double diffuser cars to follow each other any closer or overtake.

[OO7]

A long straight followed by a hairpin will not produce overtaking.
Its the corner leading onto the main straight thats much more important, examples:

1. Parabolica and Curve Grande at Monza
2. Eau Rouge and Blanchimont at Spa
3. 130R at Suzuka

All are medium-high speed corners that are flowing.

With the exception of Parabolica, all the other corners you just mentioned are effectively curved straights. When designing a new layout (focusing on F1), the option of using a curved straight could help with keeping the circuit within the confines of the development area. It may also help in exceeding the maximum lenght of a straight rule defined by the F.I.A (I think it is 1 mile/1.6 kilometres). Having said that using a very long straight would serve the same purpose.

[ViMaMo]

Sam Bird in GP2 was having a awesome day picking off cars at Seat corner.