82 replies to this topic

[Ray Bell]

Mark's leaving all those who don't know in suspense about what's over that brow at the Shell Tower... or is it Castrol Tower?
Anyway, just to save you waiting, here's a pic I posted once before, dates back a few years:

[Falcadore]

Not a great photo of the circuit per se, but I just love the shot. Brad Jones in the Audi A4 Quattro Super Tourer he shared with Cameron McConville at the 1998 Bathurst 1000. From the greenery in the background you can tell how sharply away from the circuit the hillside drops. Here the V8Supercars are reaching 215km/h on the short straight between McPhillamy Park Corner and The Skyline.


Ray, did you mention a Talbot? Trevor Talbot peers over the bonnet as far as he can as the world disappears beneath him as he directs his Holden Commodore V8 GT-Production Car over the Skyline. Or Brock's Skyline as it is now known. Back in 1970 Tony Roberts lost his big Falcon coming down from McPhillamy and was backwards going over Skyline and airborne. The car rolled so far down the hill the use by date on his helmet had expired by the time he stopped. And he walked away.


The view from the top. Just past the crest of Skyline, this is what the simply gorgeous view looks like. For those even vaguely interested in the racing asepcts of the shot, at the bottom of the picture you can see the first hump in Con-Rod Straight, with the advertsing sign bridging the hump, and further down the hill you can see the exciting Chase chicane which now circumvents the second hump.


Looking back up at the Skyline from the Essess. Trevor Ashby & Anthony Tratt lead a gaggle of V8Supercars tip toeing down the Mountain. There are times when not just fog but clouds close in around the Mountain, as if the oft mentioned, scarely beleived spirit of the Mountain has been upset. Once the flag marshall posts can't see each other anymore there's nought to do but shut down the track and wait for it to fine up enough to send out a field of HQ Holdens.


Even in the dry The Skyline can be treacherous. Here is the end result after the Nissan Sentra of Peter van Brugel hit the wall before Skyline. He hit so hard oil erupted out of newly formed gaps all over the engine and dragged that oil down the mountain. Less than a minute later a gaggle of the fastetst cars in the 1998 Bathurst 1000 field came across the scene. Brad Jones (Audi A4 Quattro) had enough time to avoid the driveshaft left on the circuit. The closely following Paul Morris (Audi A4 Quattro) did not. The driveshaft puncture Morri's sump leaving two engines worth of oil all over Skyline. The closely following Russell Ingall (Holden Vectra) and Tim Harvey (Volvo S40) didn't have a chance, and both went straight on hard at the first left hander ploughing into the concrete wall at over 100km/h with this result. The Vectra is largely obscured by the Volvo, while just beyond is Wayne Wakefield's Toyota Carina. The black lines just before Harvey's wreck show just how hard Wakefield tried to avoid Harvey. He did, but couldn't then avoid the wall. Was anyone hurt? Let's just say Tim Harvey was supposed to get married the following weekend and had it rescheduled a week later to allow the bruising to subside sufficiently. The fifth point on a five point harness can be a bitch can't it?


There are some stunning views from the top of the Mountain. You can see why the original circuit builders were able to swindle funds from the government for the construction of a 'scenic road'. The drivers never see it though. In the distance the Clatex Chase 'chicane' installed into Conrod straight in 1987 can be seen. As chicanes go, it's pretty damn exciting.


Looking down at the Dipper from the Esses. The Porsche 911's of Peter Bradbury and Geoff Morgan are away down the hill in 1998. The local fauna heps with the natural look of the circuit. The Dipper today is guarded by fencing and sponsors hoardings. Unless you're an accredited photogrpaher you can't get at it. But compare it to Laguna Seca's Corkscrew and add it to the landscape you see. The Dipper is the left hander obscured by the sign.


Add to that the picture of Wakefield's Carina here entering the Dipper. Note the way the road descends sharply on the white line.

[Ray Bell]

What, nothing of Bartlett booming through the Dipper in the 2.5 Brabham? Martin on his tail...

Where are the real racing cars, Mark?

[Vasco]

Woaahh! What a circuit!!
This is great stuff, thanks Mark ... and Ray too ;)

It's so nice and challenging that I am worried that one day Mr. Bernie makes it shut down.
Do you think it's in danger for safety reasons?

Your description of the approach to McPhillamy corner reminds me of the breaking zone to the Cork Screw in Laguna Seca, isn't that so?

[Ray Bell]

The approach to the Dipper could be said to be like coming down to the Corkscrew, but with the esses instead of just coming over the crest on straight road.

McPhillamy, in fact, all of that stretch from the top of the climb, round Reid Park and McPhillamy, is big balls high speed stuff, with air under your wheels at that point I mentioned, over that crest that leads into what I am forced to call the 'hollow'...

Fast cars do this and come right out to the outside white line, right on the edge, on a fast lap, and you can see the wheels go from full droop to almost the bump stops (perhaps even right to the bump stops...) as they fly into it.

[Sid Rutty]

Vasco, for the last couple of years all the politicians come out pledging extra cash to upgrade the place in terms of improvements to the track and for the spectators.The circuit is being resurfaced this year. The City of Bathurst relies heavily on the event which injects millions into the country town every year.The history of the Great Race is available on video and by viewing the tapes is gives a great idea of the how the place has changed over the years. Bathurst is safe from Bernie unless he buys it!!!!!

[Falcadore]

Bernie close down Bathurst? I think it would be easier for him to conquer Australia by force of arms than let such an icon fade. In 1996 Tony Cochrane, the new management head of the V8Supercar category made a statement that there would be no sacred cows about the V8's as he would run them, no doubt hinting at the presence of Bathurst. It didn't take that long for him to find out just how sacred Bathurst actually is.


As Ray points out below I missed a corner. So with this reminder when I went back to the mountain this year, I took the shot. Here David Besnard (Ford Falcon) races down towards the Shelf above the Elbow, while further back Mark Larkham (Ford Falcon) has just escaped the Dipper comple and has yet to reach the short kink of a corner that represent the penultimate of the Esses.


It's hard to remember sometimes just how far down the Mountain the Essess go and that the Dipper is merely the most famous of their number. Below the right hander that escapes from The Dipper is a short descending straight, here Anthony Robson descends it in his BMW 318i Super Tourer at the 1998 Bathurst 1000. The straight is relatively flat before a left hand kink just at the braking point sets the cars up for the right hander that drives (or dives?) off the shelf into free fall....


At the top of the picture you can see from the line the inside wall takes how the corner flows, and how suddenly the circuit drops. Not quite as steep as the drop over Skyline - or as fast for that matter. Trevor Ashby or Steve Reed is hugging the wall in their Commodore while ahead and below and enterring Forrest Elbow proper is the Falcon of Tony Longhurst in the 1997 Bathurst Classic.


Through the line of Forrests Elbow descends Larry Perkins in the race wining 1997 Bathurst Classic Holden Commodore. This seemingly never ending 300+ degree descending hairpin left hander is vitally important as the exit governs your terminal speed down the long roller coaster of Con-Rod or Conrod Straight.


Shooting from further around, Larry Perkins and Nathan Pretty in Commodores lead the Ford Falcon of Mark Noske into the Elbow in 2001.


Still going. Alan Jones in the 1997 Bathurst 1000 aboard the Williams run Renault Laguna. The fairtale return of the driver that helped make Williams to it's driving stable was not a happy one as Jones understeered into the Cutting wall early in the race on fluid left behind by the dying Blair Smith BMW 318i. Here Jones is about to leave Foorrest's and boom down Conrod. Forrests Elbow got it's name from a motorcyclist called Graham Forrest who fell off in the corner in the 50's and ground his elbow completely away sliding across the corner. It was named in honour of his Elbow, which is still there.


Out to the wall for the exit, power on all the way. Two weeks later, same driver, different car, and just that little bit further round the Elbow. The 1980 World Champion in the Ford Falcon he shared with promising Indy Lights racer and one-off CART driver Jason Bright, with sophomore NASCAR driver and CART veteran Scott Pruett.


Glenn Seton heads out of the Elbow and away down the shute in 2001. It was another so near yet so far for the lead Ford driver being in the leading bunch near the end, but forced into a splash 'n' dash by tactics.


A Valvoline Commodore, a Holden Racing Team Commodore and the Pirtek Falcon ran away down Con-Rod Straight. The kink is just before them and the mad dance is a foot.

This is as far as I can get on the down side of the circuit. Con-Rod Straight is restricted access. As you exit the Elbow it's hard on the power as the cars bellow down the hill. *snick*, third gear and through a 15-20 degree kink while *snick* fourth gear, still accelerating hard down into the first hollow *snick* fifth gear, before climbing up Conrod's first hump, *snick* sixth gear, over the hump, depending on category getting airborne, screaming down the hill descending again, the hill starts to flatten and in years past would start to climb the second hump, but after the death of Mike Burgmann in 1986 and also to meet FIA's requirement for length of unchicaned straights, the circuit now gently kinks to the right and continues down hill....

[Falcadore]

Looking up Con-Rod Straight in 2001 from down near the Dunlop Bridge. In the immediate foreground is the exit from The Chase, further back three cars are descending from the first hump towards the kink on the entry to The Chase. Beyond the crest of the first hump you can see the road steeply climbing from the base of the hollow in the top of the the straight, back towards Forrests Elbow. You can tell how deep it is by the positioning of the two Ford sponsor bridges, one over the first hump, the second over the base of the hollow.


image by Michael Shaw
The kink which starts The Chase is at the left hand side of this unusually angled picture. Here the 2000 Bathurst 1000 field files through behind the pace car, with Craig Lowndes in the Holden Racing Team car leading Team Kiwi Racing's Commodore of Jason Richards, ahead of Gary Holt (Falcon), Steven Johnson (Falcon), the race winning Garth Tander Commodore, Bill Sieders (Falcon), Glenn Seton (Falcon), Mark Larkham (Falcon) and Layton Crambrook (Falcon). The challenge at the kink in the V8Supercar is to see if you can hold it flat at 300km/h. Some bemoan the fact that Conrod has last much with the deletion of the second hump - but what a corner to replace it!


Another shot of the Chase. Jason Bright steers his 2001 HRT Holden Commodore as the Rod Nash Commodore in the background screams its utmost trying to top 300 enterring the Chase flat. Follow the straight backwards t the left hand edge and you can just see the kink near the top of Con-Rod Straight.


image by Michael Shaw
The Chase part 2. The Dick Johnson Racing Falcon of Paul Radisich and Jason Bright conserves tyre wear going through the 90 degree left hander that steers back towards the circuit proper. What televsision doesn't show, but this shot does, is how steep this corner climbs to get back to the top of the second hump for the third turn to rejoin Conrod just before the pedestrian bridge.


Under the Dunlop Bridge from one side, Paul Morris runs the Big Kev Holden Commodore down towards Murrays Corner in 2001.


Under the bridge from the other side and past the pit entry a trio of one-make series HQ Holdens descend from the second hump down the final section of the 1.5 kilometer Conrod experience.


A close up of Mal Rose on that final descent towards Murray's Corner.


Looking back from Murrays Corner back up twards the Dunlope Bridge at the 2001 Bathurst 1000. Dugal McDougall leads Garth Tander and one of the Castrol cars, all Holden Commodores, while the Ford Falcon of Mark Larkham and 500cc World Champ Wayne Gardner dives down pit lane entry.


An unusual shot of Murrays Corner as the Darren Pate / Darren Hossack Commodore (#7) dives up the inside of the Simon Emerzidis / Garry Willmington Falcon (#54) and is already past the #20 Commodore of Ian Palmer and Domenic Beninca. In days of the 70's the big 5.8 litre Falcons used to develop so much kinetic energy under brakes it could lift the tonne & a half Fords 200 metres into the air if applied vertically. Don't ask me who worked that out or why or what race was so boring that it caused this quirk of physics to be calculated....


A more conventional shot of Murrays Corner. The end of the parade lap for the 1997 Bathurst 3 Hour for GT-Production Cars. Pole man is Neal Bates in the Dodge Viper GTS. Behind are Peter Fitzgerald (Porsche 993 RSCS), John Bowe (Ferrari F355 Challenge) and Ed Aitken (Porsche 993 RSCS).

I did promise the end to a story earlier didn't I? John Bowe was in a panic. In his words, he'd been blinded by Lowndes bravery, unintended as it might have been, and Bowe several doubted his own abilities against someone whom he thought wanted the win that badly. By the time the two came down Conrod, Bowe was half way to being settled. As the two car's approached Murrays to complete lap 149 in front was the old dilapidated Holden Commodore VL, then a 6 year old body shape, of Greg Fahey. The car had actually failed to qualify but was allowed to start under the promotors discretion and were told should they incure anyones wrath during the day they'd be black flagged. Fahey turned in to Murray's having not seen Lowndes in his mirrors and almost took the nose off the car. With Lowndes off throttle Bowe didn't need to be asked twie and was past Lowndes by the time they got the Hell Corner. A focues Bowe slammed home a fast lap and Lowndes had a blinking fuel light. And so Johnson and Bowe won the greatest race the Bathurst 1000 had ever produced, and a star was born in Craig Lowndes. And to think the drama behind in the battle between Larry Perkins, Tony Longhurst and Peter Brock was even more exciting. And just further back were those two old stagers Win Percy and Colin Bond. After Brock crashed out of the race not long before the lap described above the Pace Car put the six survivors nose to tail in the pace car queue. Damn what a finish!


Late on Saturday afternoon, 2001, on the eve of the big race. The finish line, surrounded by the control tower, the pit complex and the pedestrian bridge.


image by Michael Shaw
The end of a long and very dramatic day. The chequer waves for Garth Tander in the Holden Commodore VT V8Supercar as he travels up pit straight for the 161st and last time. Almost 7 hours of vehicular combat through the rain, mud and shine, through clear track and carnage, of the 2000 Bathurst 1000. Back in the pits a lap before Jason Bargwanna had calmly said to the camera "Can you think of any better way to spend a Sunday afternoon really?" Right now Bargs is jumping up and down in ecstatic excitement as GT brings it home punching the air in the cockpit in his own delirium. For a week the whole of the nation speaks your name, most of the time preceeding with 'Did you see?' and added to a hall of heroes.


Next up? Hrmmmm - images of the Bathurst experience????

[Ray Bell]

Although a part of it shows in the rear-view pic exiting the Dipper, Mark, the all-important little left-right kink, and the length of the stretch between the Dipper is not well illustrated.

It's a very ballsy section, roaring down there on full throttle and changing up a gear, with the steep downhill braking area into Forrest's Elbow looming.

I'll see if I can post an old B & W next week in an appropriate place....

[V8SP10]

Originally posted by Ray Bell
I'll see if I can post an old B & W next week in an appropriate place....

Hi Ray,

I'd love to see more of your old B & W's. I noticed somebody before saying the mountain might be dangerous now. They ain't seen nothing until they've seen the pre-concrete pictures.

Even up to the World Touring Car Championship apperance in 1987, I can (vaguely) remember significant parts of the mountain only protected by a stringy wire fence.

I struggle to imagine the guts it would take to pilot an F5000 over the mountain in under 2:10 in the mid seventies.

Shane
http://www.conrod.com.au

[Ray Bell]

1971 was early seventies... and the 2.5s had competition before that, they had to try harder than Niel did!

[Graham Clayton]

Originally posted by Falcadore
As you exit the Elbow it's hard on the power as the cars bellow down the hill. *Snick*, third gear and through a 15-20 degree kink while *snick* fourth gear, still accelerating hard down into the first hollow *snick* fifth gear, before climbing up Conrod's first hump, *snick* sixth gear, over the hump, depending on category getting airborne, screaming down the hill descending again, the hill starts to flatten and in years past would start to climb the second hump, but after the death of Mike Burgmann in 1986 and also to meet FIA's requirement for length of unchicaned straights, the circuit now gently kinks to the right and continues down hill

One of the "big" accidents at Bathurst that does not get
remembered like Bill Brown's roll-over at Skyline happened
on the old Conrod straight during the "wet" 1974 H-F 1000.
The SLR Torana of the McRae brothers aquaplaned over
the second hump at approximately 140 mph, and took off.
The car flew through the air for 50 metres, before hitting
a tree underside up on the side of the road. I have a picture
of what was left of the car sitting on a flat trailer after the
race. It looks like a banana! Even the internal roll-cage had deformed with the force of the impact.

BTW, if anyone ever sees vision of the Bill Brown
crash, watch out for the flag marshal making a very quick
exit from his post as Brown's GHTO Falcon destroys it before
it's series of roll overs along the fence.

[Ray Bell]

This crash came up earlier somewhere... Rod and Russ McRae's car was really well bent, having hit the tree floor first.

Those days the roll cages weren't really intended to do a lot of chassis stiffening, they were simply alloy hoops behind the driver's head and a couple of braces on each side, maybe an anti-intrusion bar.

There's a very poor pic of it in Racing Car News' report that year.

[Falcadore]

New and updated with fresh pictures and different angles from the 2001 race - the virtual tour of Bathurst!!!!!!

[275 GTB-4]

Originally posted by Falcadore
There have been two Ricciardello Alfettas which one was the ex-Edmondson machine? A new car appeared around 4 years ago, which was much quicker than the original Alfetta-Chev. The two cars were run side by side briefly during the period when Tony started racing the cars and Brian Smith was still with them. Didn't Basil himself step into the older car for a few meetings as well? I had also thought the Edmondson machine was last owned by Canberra's Chris Clearihan. Was the second Ricciardello Alfetta, the Clearihan car refetted? It looked in pretty good fettle when in Clearihan's hand in the yellow colours of.... I can't remember. Ignis?

I do remember the Beninca turbo in it's final year of regular competition in 1991 during the reborn Australian Sports Sedan Championship. It won a race in the very competitive series at Sandown, a power circuit in it's purest form (short of AVUS). I also remember that the Benincas had built an Alfetta Group C Touring car at some point and had previously assumed the Alfa Turbo was the Group C car rebuilt. Some pictures I have of both cars, does look remarkably similar despite the difference in category.

As I recall from an article in RCN about the Nissan's construction there were some Renault F1 pieces aboard that car, possibly the turbochargers.

yours
Mark Alan Jones
---------------
"Now Doctor since you hold my career in your hands, I hope you can justify my faith."
"With respect Group Captain, your career is magnificently irrelevant."

This old discussion needs some images

[Martin Roessler]

here are 2 pics from sandown,dec. 2002





cheers marty

[275 GTB-4]

Originally posted by Falcadore Here Jones is about to leave Foorrest's and boom down Conrod. Forrests Elbow got it's name from a motorcyclist called Graham Forrest who fell off in the corner in the 50's and ground his elbow completely away sliding across the corner. It was named in honour of his Elbow, which is still there.
[/B]

Jack Forrest....Forrests Elbow.

[seldo]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Falcadore Here Jones is about to leave Foorrest's and boom down Conrod. Forrests Elbow got it's name from a motorcyclist called Graham Forrest who fell off in the corner in the 50's and ground his elbow completely away sliding across the corner. It was named in honour of his Elbow, which is still there.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by 275 GTB-4


[B] Jack Forrest....Forrests Elbow. [/QUOTE]
Correct - Jack Forrest. I knew Jack quite well. The story goes a bit further than that.
Jack told me that it all happened in practise - he came down into what is now called Forrest's Elbow when the guy in front fell from his cycle and was lying in the middle of the track. The only way he could avoid him was to lay his own machine down and slide down the track, and in so doing, breaking both elbows and grinding them into the track.
[i]But....The reason it became part of folk-lore is because, not to miss-out, Jack had his arms set in plaster in the crooked position with elbows bent....and rode the next day with both arms plastered...and I believe won! [b]That's why it's called Forrest's Elbow...

[Ray Bell]

I've never heard that story before, David... and you'd think Mike Kable would have told me... after all, he told me that the corner was named for Forrest...

Hmmm... an old thread, I promised to put up a photo here and I've never done it. Must track it down.

[cosworth bdg]

Originally posted by Ray Bell
Shame you don't have more background in many of those, Mark. Obviously you were shooting the cars and not the circuit.

It's a great place all right... that first pic of your last post gives a bit of an idea... when you appreciate that the car at the back of the train has virtually got no traction for a moment as it crests the brow of that curve.
Here's an older shot of the same spot...



Oh, and Bartlett wasn't patting the tyre.. he inspected the wheel, which had been flawed when made and the rim had cracked. He actually mentioned that he rim was broken on TV, and pointed directly to the crack. It was a rim section made when there was a joint venture between a large South Australian manufacturer and Simmons, which Simmons has since ended. Tony prefers a better level of quality control.

Great shots Ray, hooray ,no TIN tops .!

[275 GTB-4]

Originally posted by seldo

Correct - Jack Forrest. I knew Jack quite well. The story goes a bit further than that.
Jack told me that it all happened in practise - he came down into what is now called Forrest's Elbow when the guy in front fell from his cycle and was lying in the middle of the track. The only way he could avoid him was to lay his own machine down and slide down the track, and in so doing, breaking both elbows and grinding them into the track.
But....The reason it became part of folk-lore is because, not to miss-out, Jack had his arms set in plaster in the crooked position with elbows bent....and rode the next day with both arms plastered...and I believe won! That's why it's called Forrest's Elbow...

Hmmmm........ so the correct term should be "Forrests Elbows"!!

[Catalina Park]

Lucky he didn't land on his arse.

[cosworth bdg]

Originally posted by Catalina Park
Lucky he didn't land on his arse.

He may have ????

[seldo]

Originally posted by Catalina Park
Lucky he didn't land on his arse.

Well, he landed on his elbows first...and that wrecked'em.....

[Hank the Deuce]

Originally posted by seldo

Well, he landed on his elbows first...and that wrecked'em.....

rectum? damn near killed 'im!

[David Shaw]

Was this a demonstration run by Niel Allen in 1970?
http://www.autopics....c.html?cache=no

[Ray Bell]

Little more than, I believe...

Had he driven to the potential of the car he would have been miles further ahead of the competition.

[MarkBisset]

 

Niel Allen sets the long-standing lap record - 2m:09.7 - at Bathurst during the Division 1 Racing Cars 3-lapper at the Easter 1970 weekend.

 

That must have been really something to see in this 500bhp roller-skate McLaren M10B Chev. Any of you there? 
 

Chassis 400-02 is now owned by Alan Hamilton 

Edited by MarkBisset, 02 May 2022 - 09:55.

[lyntonh]

 

Niel Allen sets the long-standing lap record - 2m:09.7 - at Bathurst during the Division 1 Racing Cars 3-lapper at the Easter 1970 weekend.

 

That must have been really something to see in this 500bhp roller-skate McLaren M10B Chev. Any of you there? 
 

Chassis 400-02 is now owned by Alan Hamilton 

I took some 8mm movie of the three lapper.

 

It's not well remembered that John Harvey made a brilliant start in that race and led all the way up the hill and over the top and down through the esses.

 

This 'scruffy' little clip shows the first and third laps, with Niel getting past just below the Elbow.

 

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=IC8VDqVeUBE

 

 

 

[lyntonh]

Niel on lap two.

 

 

John Harvey on lap two.

 

Regrettably, my stock of film ran out at the end of the ATCC race, and I took no photos in the 13 lap Racing car event, or the Sports car race that followed.

[MarkBisset]

You outta be soundly spanked my son!
 

Fancy wasting all your valuable fillum on those Taxis, as attractive as they were back then.

 

I’m making fuel injected Chevy noises as I watch your film - many thanks for sharing. Oh to have seen a ‘field’ of F5000s in the day or Max and KB in October 1976! (Chevron)

 

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by lyntonh
I took some 8mm movie of the three lapper.
 
It's not well remembered that John Harvey made a brilliant start in that race and led all the way up the hill and over the top and down through the esses.
 
This 'scruffy' little clip shows the first and third laps, with Niel getting past just below the Elbow.
 

Very nice, Lynton, and good of you to remind us that Harves led for that time. I'm among those who'd forgotten.

[brucemoxon]

In about 2011 Vodafone organised a promotion at Bathurst. Jensen Button and Craig Lowndes drove both their own and each other's cars for a few laps. Button's McLaren was an obsolete V10 car, running maximum wings and ride height, with a low rev limit and throttle percentage. It was on the limiter on Mountain Straight, which is a fair bit shorter than Conrod. He was unofficially timed at 1m48.8s - there was certainly a bit left in the car. 

 

GT3 cars lap the place in just on 2m - depending on restrictions due to their balance of performance. 

 

The new S5000 cars in Australia, with a detune, lap in just under 2m. They're dialled back because the track is only level 2 licensed or somesuch. 

 

 

BRM