18 replies to this topic

[SeanValen]

I mensitioned this in another post, but I thought it was open to bigger discussion, the last time we had a sunday warm up was back in 2002.

I think once the sunday warm practice went in 2003, when you couldn't touch set ups before the race, a good amount of fine tuning was lost, and I think at Spain which changes alot day by day, it's almost a given not everyone is going to get it right. I remember Schumacher thinking Mercedes lost something from Friday to Saturday. I remember Ferrari in Spain in 2006, they were fast on Friday and Saturday but on Sunday the pace radically went, Massa was nowhere near Schumacher, Renault and Alonso had more pace. Spain is very sensitive with the car to track temperature and wind changes, it is a track that really needs a Sunday warm up practice, in a way some teams/drivers are shooting in the dark in regards to the Sunday performance.

The sunday warm up practice was something David Couthard especially needed, he worked with the car until the last sessions, making changes, when the 2003 rules began, not only was 1 lap quali a issue for DC, he suffered without sunday warm up, I think the DC before 2003 was much better, and I still think some drivers are guessing a bit for sunday and not always winning, doesn't mean they didn't drive sunday well, but some of it will be down to factors and choices made on friday/saturday, it's a complicated weekend then before, making those last minute set up changes with sunday warm up helped alot, then every driver had equal shot I think in being prepared, they were not guessing on Saturday how Sunday would be, as they were there on Sunday with a session on hand to make changes up until the start, that's a huge difference almost a extra test session of data, , they should bring it back, because it' still is a large bunk of how f1 weekends went up until 2003.

I think there is a danger of tiny details of set up issues making a trend for alot of reasons why a driver underperforms, the sunday warm up at least allowed the drivers a proper crack to make sure the track that day is suited to the set up on the car for the day and not guessed on Saturday.

If the whole point of testing and fri/saturday is to win the race, then all that work until qualifying can be lost on the basis that Sunday is a different day that you simply get into the car and drive without knowing exactly how the car will be on the day or somewhere near abouts what to expect, a lack of sunday practice can lead to some pretty odd weekends after alot of preparation, I still think it's one of those FIA rules in 2003 that was introduced to increase the opportunity of a top team or some driver to have a odd weekend, some randomness, whether or not that is always the case is hard to tell, but I think it allows too much opportunity for being unprepared, I don't see a need for it, and it's one less session for the weekend, which is already bad with no testing.


Any thoughts....

Edited by SeanValen, 12 May 2010 - 01:54.

[pingu666]

sunday practise for the non top 10
extensive setup changes allowed for bottom 7

[Lazarus II]

I am always for more track-time for the cars. It's about the fans, not the damn cars.

[SchumiBoy]

If the whole point of testing and fri/saturday is to win the race, then all that work until qualifying can be lost on the basis that Sunday is a different day that you simply get into the car and drive without knowing exactly how the car will be on the day or somewhere near abouts what to expect, a lack of sunday practice can lead to some pretty odd weekends after alot of preparation, I still think it's one of those FIA rules in 2003 that was introduced to increase the opportunity of a top team or some driver to have a odd weekend, some randomness, whether or not that is always the case is hard to tell, but I think it allows too much opportunity for being unprepared, I don't see a need for it, and it's one less session for the weekend, which is already bad with no testing.

It was introduced to ban the qualifying cars that were being used on Saturdays and then replaced almost completely overnight before the race.

[J2NH]

Sunday warm up was GREAT for the FANS attending races. I really enjoyed them in the years I went to Indy. For the life of me, with all of the money that is spent in F1, I cannot understand why Sunday warm ups have not made a return. Big crowd and great for the fans and SPONSORS. Does the FIA really care so little about the people that pay the bills? Rhetorical question, of course they don't.

[SchumiBoy]

Sunday warm up was GREAT for the FANS attending races. I really enjoyed them in the years I went to Indy. For the life of me, with all of the money that is spent in F1, I cannot understand why Sunday warm ups have not made a return. Big crowd and great for the fans and SPONSORS. Does the FIA really care so little about the people that pay the bills? Rhetorical question, of course they don't.

Limited engines, limited gearboxes, limited tyres and no setup changes allowed. You would have to revert all these rule changes

But yeah it was great. Was my favorite part of the weekend just gearing up for the race a few hours later

Edited by SchumiBoy, 12 May 2010 - 02:57.

[Lazarus II]

Limited engines, limited gearboxes, limited tyres and no setup changes allowed. You would have to revert all these rule changes

But yeah it was great. Was my favorite part of the weekend just gearing up for the race a few hours later

There's the key word.

Cost savings in F1 is counter intuitive. The more money spent the more people that will be employed - what's the main problem in todays society??????.......oh that's right ....they call it it UNemployment. F1 team WANT to spend money....by design! It's called competition FFS!

The more we so-called SAVE, the more we spiral down. Let these MF'ers spend like drunken sailors FFS. They WANT to spend, they WANT to research...LET THEM. It benefits us all!

For those who can afford the ticket prices demanded by that POS weasel Bernie, we want to see the cars on the F'in track, not pushed up and down the F'in pitlane! I for one WILL NOT spend any more money traveling just to see an F1 race. I will schedule my travel on other things F Bernie and F F1.....I've got a DVR for F1 I'll watch it on MY TIME.

Edited by Lazarus II, 12 May 2010 - 03:13.

[Murl]

I mensitioned this in another post, but I thought it was open to bigger discussion, the last time we had a sunday warm up was back in 2002.

I think once the sunday warm practice went in 2003, when you couldn't touch set ups before the race, a good amount of fine tuning was lost, and I think at Spain which changes alot day by day, it's almost a given not everyone is going to get it right. I remember Schumacher thinking Mercedes lost something from Friday to Saturday. I remember Ferrari in Spain in 2006, they were fast on Friday and Saturday but on Sunday the pace radically went, Massa was nowhere near Schumacher, Renault and Alonso had more pace. Spain is very sensitive with the car to track temperature and wind changes, it is a track that really needs a Sunday warm up practice, in a way some teams/drivers are shooting in the dark in regards to the Sunday performance.

The sunday warm up practice was something David Couthard especially needed, he worked with the car until the last sessions, making changes, when the 2003 rules began, not only was 1 lap quali a issue for DC, he suffered without sunday warm up, I think the DC before 2003 was much better, and I still think some drivers are guessing a bit for sunday and not always winning, doesn't mean they didn't drive sunday well, but some of it will be down to factors and choices made on friday/saturday, it's a complicated weekend then before, making those last minute set up changes with sunday warm up helped alot, then every driver had equal shot I think in being prepared, they were not guessing on Saturday how Sunday would be, as they were there on Sunday with a session on hand to make changes up until the start, that's a huge difference almost a extra test session of data, , they should bring it back, because it' still is a large bunk of how f1 weekends went up until 2003.

I think there is a danger of tiny details of set up issues making a trend for alot of reasons why a driver underperforms, the sunday warm up at least allowed the drivers a proper crack to make sure the track that day is suited to the set up on the car for the day and not guessed on Saturday.

If the whole point of testing and fri/saturday is to win the race, then all that work until qualifying can be lost on the basis that Sunday is a different day that you simply get into the car and drive without knowing exactly how the car will be on the day or somewhere near abouts what to expect, a lack of sunday practice can lead to some pretty odd weekends after alot of preparation, I still think it's one of those FIA rules in 2003 that was introduced to increase the opportunity of a top team or some driver to have a odd weekend, some randomness, whether or not that is always the case is hard to tell, but I think it allows too much opportunity for being unprepared, I don't see a need for it, and it's one less session for the weekend, which is already bad with no testing.


Any thoughts....

Yes.

Let the drivers decide what suits them for a race vs. qualifying.

Some rules are good, designed to clarify or prohibit. Some are arbitrary. Like this one.

Warmup times vs. qualifying were sometimes very interesting, seeing who had pace on full tanks.

[Atreiu]

I agree.
Track time is good for teams, drivers and the fans and there should be more of it during a weekend.
And bring 3rd cars back.

[Ghostrider]

Sunday warm up was GREAT for the FANS attending races. I really enjoyed them in the years I went to Indy. For the life of me, with all of the money that is spent in F1, I cannot understand why Sunday warm ups have not made a return. Big crowd and great for the fans and SPONSORS. Does the FIA really care so little about the people that pay the bills? Rhetorical question, of course they don't.

Agreed, especially for the fans at track, the warm-up is great.

I wish they would bring it back.

[Atreiu]

Does the FOTA have a suggestion box or something?
If not for 2011, at least for 2013.

[robefc]

As a hammy fan I was thinking about this in spain - I don't want sunday warm up back...instead I'd rather scrap fri and sat practice!

Lewis seems to get on it straight away but often people will then catch up over the weekend as they dial their cars in, annoys me!

[SeanValen]

As a hammy fan I was thinking about this in spain - I don't want sunday warm up back...instead I'd rather scrap fri and sat practice!

Lewis seems to get on it straight away but often people will then catch up over the weekend as they dial their cars in, annoys me!

But that maybe because Mclaren have developed the sort of cars in recent years where it hasn't been a big issue for Lewis, some cars are easier to dial in, I remember renault in 2005/2006, they weren't even using some practice sessions, so confident with their package, but ferrari had to work harder to get their tyres to operate well on certain tracks and needed the practice more.

What goes around comes around.

Edited by SeanValen, 12 May 2010 - 21:14.

[Sakae]

There's the key word.

Cost savings in F1 is counter intuitive. The more money spent the more people that will be employed - what's the main problem in todays society??????.......oh that's right ....they call it it UNemployment. F1 team WANT to spend money....by design! It's called competition FFS!

The more we so-called SAVE, the more we spiral down. Let these MF'ers spend like drunken sailors FFS. They WANT to spend, they WANT to research...LET THEM. It benefits us all!

For those who can afford the ticket prices demanded by that POS weasel Bernie, we want to see the cars on the F'in track, not pushed up and down the F'in pitlane! I for one WILL NOT spend any more money traveling just to see an F1 race. I will schedule my travel on other things F Bernie and F F1.....I've got a DVR for F1 I'll watch it on MY TIME.

I could not put it so succinctly, not to put fine point on it, but its sound of music to my ears.

Edited by Sakae, 12 May 2010 - 21:21.

[Tolyngee]

sunday practise for the non top 10
extensive setup changes allowed for bottom 7

But what if it's sunny Fri/Sat but expected to rain on Sunday, so it's an advantage to Q poorly so you can adjust whatever?

You'd have people spinning on purpose, like Schumacher at Silverstone...

And since failing to set a time in Q1 would automatically put you at the back, no one would want to go out, so they'd have to make a rule forcing everyone to do a lap, and what a farce that could be!

Edited by Tolyngee, 12 May 2010 - 21:39.

[pingu666]

thats unlikely as track position is king, so if you think it would rain then put a wet setup or a split setup on and go qualy. being in the bottom 7 would give you more freedom, but you would also haveto pass a whole bunch of cars...

[Disgrace]

Not when you have GP2 and GP3 taking over the morning, you won't.

[BlackCat]

in a normal world
the purpose of ALL things that happen before the start of the race
is to assure that the fastest car is the first to take turn one
the second fastest car is the second to arrive to turn one
up to
the slowest car is the last to arrive to turn one without any crashes
as long as nobody screws up his starting position.

current f1 is a fckup but with the current rules - no testing, all those limitations - sunday morning warmup would make it a worse fckup, as there is a chance that some cars/drivers with comparatively bad starting position will find better speed than cars in front of them. so the probability of a pile-up in the first turn will grow. that, of course, is a thing to avoid. in a normal world, again.

[A Wheel Nut]

But what if it's sunny Fri/Sat but expected to rain on Sunday, so it's an advantage to Q poorly so you can adjust whatever?

You'd have people spinning on purpose, like Schumacher at Silverstone...

And since failing to set a time in Q1 would automatically put you at the back, no one would want to go out, so they'd have to make a rule forcing everyone to do a lap, and what a farce that could be!

If no one does a lap, Q1 is determined by Championship order.