16 replies to this topic

[Peter Perfect]

Saw this mentioned in the Massa to Redbull thread and thought it was worth a little research. Someone posted that they thought the size and weight of drivers had a measurable effect on the performance of the driver/car package and that potentially the way round that (to eliminate a trend towards jockey-sized drivers) was to come up with a standard size driver cell which could be weighed down with ballast to make it the same for every team. To me it seems like quite a good idea, although how you make sure that they've all got the same COG is a little bit more tricky. Are there any other downsides?

For comparison the current top 10 drivers...

[codebox]Name Height(cm) Weight(Kg)
-----------------------------------------
Jenson Button 182 72
Fernando Alonso 171 68
Sebastian Vettel 176 62
Mark Webber 185 76
Nico Rosberg 178 67
Lewis Hamilton 175 66
Felipe Massa 166 59
Robert Kubica 183 72
Michael Schumacher 174 68
Adrian Sutil 184 75[/codebox]

[Lights]

Opposed to jockey's, to even get near F1 you need exceptional talent, and sometimes it turns out to be a tall guy. So I don't see it going that drastic route.

I do agree that I think Webber is the limit for height/weight to be successful in F1. Has there been any other driver taller than him successful in modern F1? I know Wilson was way taller, but he didn't really stick around for long.

I don't think the COG really changes that much though. Even if a standard size driver cell would be created, the light guys would still put the ballast as low as possible.

And how are you planning to weigh the driver cell?

[Peter Perfect]

Isn't there a standard rule of thumb for how much 1kg of fuel is worth in terms of lap times? Can't remember what it is now, but the difference between say Webber and Massa is 17kg which seems fairly significant (especially for a sport where hundredths of seconds matter)

The driver cell would be tricky to police, but I guess its only its size that matters (which could be measured reasonably easily) which would leave just the weight to add. How/where it gets added would be the question.

I was surprised to see in the list how big/heavy some drivers were compared to others e.g. Button is only a fraction off Webber whereas Massa is close to the Heidfeld end of the scale.

[Lee Nicolle]

From what I have gathered over the years some teams could not employ bigger drivers as the would not fit in the car! I believe it is a bit better now though Mark Webber at 185 is still fairly skinny for his height.
They need to make the cars bigger, so Alan Jones circa 1981 will fit.
Yes the smaller blokes can put the weight lower but at least it is closer to a level playing field.
I once had a drive in a Formula Ford and had gods own job getting in. And I was told that it was a big one!! And I was 184 cm and 85 kilo. My head was way out in the air. Was fun though.

This is not just in F1 either. Most speedway equipment is pretty squeezy too. The midgets I have tried I do not fit and modern sprinters are not much better often either.

[Lights]

Isn't there a standard rule of thumb for how much 1kg of fuel is worth in terms of lap times? Can't remember what it is now, but the difference between say Webber and Massa is 17kg which seems fairly significant (especially for a sport where hundredths of seconds matter)

That's 10kg of fuel being worth 3 tenths. But that's obviously very track dependent.

Massa might be 17kg's lighter than Webber, that doesn't mean his car as a whole is, just that the COF is a bit lower which does provide more grip.

[Chezrome]

The tallest driver to compete in F1 IMHO was Michael Parkes in the sixties. He was about 6 foot 3 (1 meter 97) and Ferrari built a special car for him! He was quite good too, he became 2nd in 1966 at Reims, but an accident later cut his career... short.

In the seventies there was Hans Joachim Stuck (1m94).

[Lights]

The tallest driver to compete in F1 IMHO was Michael Parkes in the sixties. He was about 6 foot 3 (1 meter 97) and Ferrari built a special car for him! He was quite good too, he became 2nd in 1966 at Reims, but an accident later cut his career... short.

In the seventies there was Hans Joachim Stuck (1m94).

Thanks for that info.

[Slowinfastout]

The tallest driver to compete in F1 IMHO was Michael Parkes in the sixties. He was about 6 foot 3 (1 meter 97) and Ferrari built a special car for him! He was quite good too, he became 2nd in 1966 at Reims, but an accident later cut his career... short.

In the seventies there was Hans Joachim Stuck (1m94).

Gurney was just about 6' 3" as well... hence the long Eagle and stuff

[Clatter]

Isn't there a standard rule of thumb for how much 1kg of fuel is worth in terms of lap times? Can't remember what it is now, but the difference between say Webber and Massa is 17kg which seems fairly significant (especially for a sport where hundredths of seconds matter)

The weight difference between the drivers makes no difference as the min weight is driver+car. The only advantage is that the lighter driver has more ballast to play around with.

[ivand911]

Can I ask where the weights and heights in the first post came from? How accurate are?

[Alfisti]

IMHO Webber looked almost gaunt on Sunday, he's too thin.

Something has to be done, it's too late for this crop of drivers but if it keeps going the way of allowing movabkle ballast then we'll end up with pygmies in the car.

[pgj]

Didn't RK lose a lot of weight when he was at BMW? He was still heavier than Nick though IIRC.

[undersquare]

I don't see why physique has to be adjusted for. How about drivers who are a big weaker than others, do they get power brakes?

The large majority of sports favour size one way or another, mostly big size. Why shouldn't the shortasses get a break with motor raciing?

[Jazza]

The weight issue does seem a bit strange. Eye sight, reflexes, physical endurance, age, etc, all play a part in a drivers performance. They are all just accepted as good fortune for the ones that get an advantage, and tough luck for those who have to take a performance hit because of it. Although weight is one of the areas that can be neutralized, it seems a bit strange that it is considered any more of an unfair advantage then many other physical attributes that drivers benefit from. Technically there is no such thing as driving skills. Just a mix of other physical and mental attributes that makes one humans better than another at racing a car. It could be argued weight is just another one of those attributes.

I'm sure the history books has plenty of drivers who won more then they would of if they were the same weight as their rivals. Long before weight equalization came in it was just the way it goes.

[BenettonB192]

I remember not long ago one of the commentators on german TV said that driver weight makes less difference then one would assume since the driver sits pretty close to the gravity center of the car and in the end all cars have to weight around the same (with driver included). Small drivers have a little more freedom of where to put ballast but the difference in lap times is minimal. The problems and disadvantages that tall drivers have are mostly ergonomically.

Edited by BenettonB192, 12 May 2010 - 15:05.

[Peter Perfect]

Can I ask where the weights and heights in the first post came from? How accurate are?

All figures from Forix

[Rob G]

The tallest driver to compete in F1 IMHO was Michael Parkes in the sixties. He was about 6 foot 3 (1 meter 97) and Ferrari built a special car for him! He was quite good too, he became 2nd in 1966 at Reims, but an accident later cut his career... short.

Carel Godin de Beaufort was a little taller and undoubtedly much heavier than Parkes.