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Malcolm Sayer and the XJ13


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#1 Nev

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Posted 16 May 2010 - 09:12

Couldn't pass up this chance to get a view from those of you with an eye for these things ...

I am in the throes of a project to recreate a "toolroom copy" XJ13 complete with original quad-cam V12. The question is - do I recreate the car as Sayer had originally intended (i.e. as it was in 1966) or after it was crashed then rebuilt (1973)?

The following is an animated image that shows the major differences between the two (hope it works here - if not, click HERE and search for the post titled "Sayer's Original Design"

Posted Image

Note the different wheels and wheelarch treatment.

I would welcome your comments .....

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#2 ensign14

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Posted 16 May 2010 - 09:32

1966. It was a very good year. :)

#3 kayemod

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Posted 16 May 2010 - 10:04

1966. It was a very good year. :)


Especially for Bordeaux, Burgundies weren't quite so good.


#4 Nev

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Posted 16 May 2010 - 10:22

I would welcome your comments .....


Perhaps I should qualify that - "I would welcome your comments on the 1966 vs 1973 XJ13 ..."

By the way ... for Burgundy you should really ignore vintages and, instead, look for producers. For example, Mommessin Clos de Tart is consistently excellent year to year.

Edited by Nev, 16 May 2010 - 10:26.


#5 Philip Whiteman

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Posted 16 May 2010 - 10:31

I am fascinated to know how the car would have gone with Sayer's original 'narrow-tyre' aerodynamics and Derek White's purpose-designed front suspension (rather than the adapted E-Type bits Bill Heynes insisted upon). All rewriting history etc, but had the project gone ahead as planned, rather than been watered down, delayed and then made into something completely different…

#6 RTH

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Posted 16 May 2010 - 10:55

The is, or certainly was a year ago an XJ13 Replica in the Stondon motor museum Beds

http://www.transport...co.uk/index.htm
A mix of Aluminium & GRP clearly vast amounts of man hours had gone in to its construction yet it appeared quite wrong in many ways.

#7 D-Type

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Posted 16 May 2010 - 15:25

A difficult decision.

A car is an engineering product that is continuously developed and improved. Hence the 1973 version best represents the 'spirit' of the car. But, on the other hand, the 1966 version looks nicer ...

Let's try a different tack: The 1973 version exists so perhaps you should replicate the 1966 version to make it possible to compare the two.

#8 elansprint72

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Posted 16 May 2010 - 21:52

Nev,
The later treatment looks like a convenience to get those fat wheels and tyres out of the arches. imho, of course.

#9 arttidesco

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Posted 17 May 2010 - 00:25

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Jaguar XJ13, Goodwood, 03 07 09, With owners permission

I had no idea the 5 spoke wheels and fat tyres were not original, since we have one post 73 car to enjoy. and enjoy it I do, why not go right back to the original 1966 version not only so that we can compare and contrast but also so that you have something unique when it is all finished ?

#10 Nev

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Posted 17 May 2010 - 07:38

I have a confession ......

The more I look at the original 1966 design, the more I like it and that is almost certainly the way I will go. However, it is heartening to know that, from your various posts and PMs, I am not in the minority!

There is also another reason I want to keep as close to the 1966 car as possible. In this form, there is a vague possibility my finished car could be allowed to race against the cars it was originally meant to compete against in the late 1960s - Ford's GT40, Ferrari's 330 P4, Chaparral 2F etc. Even if this ends up being unattainable, at this early stage I don't want to be building in barriers that could possibly compromise the dream!

I have already commissioned a consultant who is helping me translate all the notes/drawings/data/photos/actual dimensions etc I have on the 1966 and current car, into a digital CAD/CAM representation that can be used to actually manufacture buck/formers/monocoque. The beauty of this digital approach is that completely faithful physical scale models can be produced to compare with the current car and period photos before anything is committed to metal. It is also possible to "virtually" trial-fit things such as suspension components, pipework, seats, engine, gearbox etc and to calculate final centres-of-gravity, suspension angles, corner weights, drag coefficients etc. Another advantage is that a by-product of the process is an accurate buck etc that can be used in the event of future damage to the car or any of its major components.

It is also possible to accurately scan unobtainable components such as engine components including the original twin-cam cylinder heads (the heads on my original engine are the ultimate development of the twin cam design in the 1960s and are in advance of the heads that ended up on the current car in the JDHT collection). The digitisation technique involves surface laser scanning and internal scanning by means of inserted probes.

I will maintain a log of progress on my personal blog at XJ13 - Building the Legend

#11 arttidesco

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Posted 17 May 2010 - 20:42

Way to go Nev I doubt you'll regret going down the '66 route :-) Look forward to catching your updates on progress sounds like you have a ton of work to do, is anyone documenting it on video ?