137 replies to this topic

[fuzzi]

Is there such a thing as a Lister Jaguar Register?

If there is could someone point me in the right direction?

My reason for asking is that Jimmy Blumer set the lap record at over 87mph the first meeting at Thornaby-on-Tees meeting on 9 August 1959, but I can't find out what he was driving. I know he had, or had access to a Lister around that time (he drove Jim Diggory's on at least one occasion) and thought it might well be a product of the factory in Cambridge.

Or it could have been his Cooper Monaco I suppose.

[Geoff E]

This post mentions some of Blumer's races in 1959 (but doesn't answer your question) http://forums.autosp...a...t&p=4023130

[Red Socks]

This post mentions some of Blumer's races in 1959 (but doesn't answer your question) http://forums.autosp...a...t&p=4023130

Diggory's was BHL2 AFAIK

[David McKinney]

No doubt the Border Reivers car, which he had raced at Ouston the previous day

As for a Register, there are probably too many cars with the same numbers for such a listing to be of any value

[fuzzi]

No doubt the Border Reivers car, which he had raced at Ouston the previous day

As for a Register, there are probably too many cars with the same numbers for such a listing to be of any value

Thanks for that David it does seem quite likely.

It is sad though, I thought of all racing cars there might be a chance that someone had kept a hold on Listers. But I suppose once they were out of Brian Lister's hands they were fair game for the copyists

[CoulthardD]

I can confirm Jimmy definately drove the Boarder Reivers car.

DC

[RobertE]

I can confirm Jimmy definately drove the Boarder Reivers car.

DC

Doug Nye will confirm, but I think that this must be the Gomm-bodied Lister-Jaguar later driven by dear old Bruce Halford, and in which Jim Clark had his first international race. Who has it now?

[David McKinney]

Blumer drove it at Ouston, because Clark wasn't available
I don't know about the following day's Thornaby meeting

[David Birchall]

Would this be the "Flat Iron" Lister-HCH736?
It was owned by Joel Finn in N.America for a while

[arttidesco]

At the risk of hi jacking this thread into becoming an impromptu Lister Jaguar register RJC and I were wondering if there is anybody out there in the world wide web of Autosport who can tell us anything about this example raced at the 1980 British GP meeting ?



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We both remember there was an article in Motor Sport around this time (late 70's early 80's) featuring a Dark Blue Lister XJS which was either a hatchback or estate, could have been a convertible if there was not one in production at the time but we both think it had a metal roof, does anyone else have similar recollections or are we both barking mad in need of premature 24/7 nursing homes ?

[David McKinney]

On the basis that the driver looks very much like Bobby Bell, then it's not a Lister-Jaguar, but a Chevrolet-powered version. Still seen today, still (I think) owned by Bobby Bell and frequently raced by Stuart Graham

[arttidesco]

Thanks David are there any externally identifiable features of the car that distinguish this as a Lister Chevrolet ?

Are we talking about Stuart 'Brut 33 Camaro' Graham British Saloon Car Champion and motorcycle racer here ?

[David McKinney]

The easiest way to distinguish a Lister-Chevy from a Lister-Jaguar is to count the number of exhaust-pipes

And yes, the same Stuart Graham

[arttidesco]

Shame RJC only has the one pic of the Lister, David :-)

Great to hear Stuart Graham is still driving, I loved the Group 1 era muscle cars of Stuart, Richard Lloyd and Tony Lanfranchi's Southern Organs yellow and black Barracuda , maybe it's time to go to more historic events :-)

Thanks again David :-)

[CoulthardD]

Would this be the "Flat Iron" Lister-HCH736?
It was owned by Joel Finn in N.America for a while

Yep, that's the one.

DC

[Belmondo]

At the risk of hi jacking this thread into becoming an impromptu Lister Jaguar register RJC and I were wondering if there is anybody out there in the world wide web of Autosport who can tell us anything about this example raced at the 1980 British GP meeting ?



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We both remember there was an article in Motor Sport around this time (late 70's early 80's) featuring a Dark Blue Lister XJS which was either a hatchback or estate, could have been a convertible if there was not one in production at the time but we both think it had a metal roof, does anyone else have similar recollections or are we both barking mad in need of premature 24/7 nursing homes ?

Pretty sure this car had a Jaguar engine when Bobby Bell used to race it.

Noticed there was a Mike Freeman racing at Silverstone last weekend... wonder if this is the same man who drove a burgundy Costin Lister in the '80s?

[David McKinney]

I suspect Bobby Bell did race a Lister-Jag at some point, but I'm sure the one in the picture is the V8

[Giraffe]

This is the Lister Chevrolet (5100cc) of Mark Gibbon / David Hall (#6) pictured at Silverstone yesterday next to the similar (5555cc) car of Jamie McIntyre (#29).


By giraffe138 at 2010-05-17

By giraffe138 at 2010-05-17

Amongst the many Listers was this similarlly coloured Lister Jaguar of Stephen & Ben Gibson


By giraffe138 at 2010-05-17

Edited by Giraffe, 17 May 2010 - 12:48.

[Dutchy]

I suspect Bobby Bell did race a Lister-Jag at some point, but I'm sure the one in the picture is the V8

I'm certain the car pictured, which Bobby Bell raced extensively, was Jaguar powered. However I have no idea at all of its previous or subsequent history.

Edited by Dutchy, 17 May 2010 - 12:53.

[Alan Cox]

We both remember there was an article in Motor Sport around this time (late 70's early 80's) featuring a Dark Blue Lister XJS which was either a hatchback or estate, could have been a convertible if there was not one in production at the time but we both think it had a metal roof, does anyone else have similar recollections or are we both barking mad in need of premature 24/7 nursing homes ?

Are you sure you aren't thinking of the XJS Lynx Eventer, which was a shooting brake version of the XJS? Lister did, of course, alsio produce their own version of the XJS.
http://www.jaguar-ad...nx-Eventer.html
http://www.autotrade...le_for_40k.html

[arttidesco]

Are you sure you aren't thinking of the XJS Lynx Eventer, which was a shooting brake version of the XJS? Lister did, of course, alsio produce their own version of the XJS.
http://www.jaguar-ad...nx-Eventer.html
http://www.autotrade...le_for_40k.html

Thanks Alan, it definitely was nothing quite so hideously gauche as the 200 mph XJS ! I wonder did Motor Sport ever test that one ?

The Lynx Eventer looks just like the vehicle I was thinking of not sure how I got it confused with Lister.

Best

Art T

[arttidesco]

Belmondo and David thanks for your comments :-)

Looks to me like the 1981 #50 pic taken by RJC and #6 Lister Chevy captured by Giraffe yesterday post #18 feature a somewhat larger air intake over the right rear wheel (UK N/S) than the #26 Lister Jag also captured by Giraffe yesterday in post #18 above.

Could that difference in intake size be a clue to the difference between a Jag powered Lister and Chevy powered one ?

[Doug Nye]

There is quite a reasonably priced book available which has a pretty comprehensive foundation list around which a corrected and extended Lister Register could be composed, as one of its appendices.

DCN

[arttidesco]

Kind of begs the starter question if said inexpensive Lister book has a title Doug ?

[Doug Nye]

Ahem - not really for me to say, but try 'Powered by Jaguar' published by Motor Racing Publications, 2nd Edition.

DCN

[arttidesco]

A little flag waving never did any harm for most folks bank balances Doug :-) Besides you can't blush on the Intelweb can you ?

Thanks for the (ahem) tip :-)

[Julian Bronson]

I'm certain the car pictured, which Bobby Bell raced extensively, was Jaguar powered. However I have no idea at all of its previous or subsequent history.

The ex Bobby Bell Lister Jaguar is the car now owned by Stephen Gibson BHL128 The ex Bobby Bell Lister Chev may not have existed when the above had a Lister Jag

Julian Bronson

[arttidesco]

doh! Don't no why I did not think of this before, looking at a lot of Lister pics on the web only obvious way to tell the difference between a Jaguar and Chevrolet powered version is by the off side exhaust pipes on the Chevrolet powered version :-)

[David McKinney]

The ex Bobby Bell Lister Jaguar is the car now owned by Stephen Gibson BHL128 The ex Bobby Bell Lister Chev may not have existed when the above had a Lister Jag

Julian Bronson

Quite right. Via Nick Linney. For some reason once I found the Chev ('BHL18') in my notes I stopped looking

Nice to see you hear by the way, Julian. Welcome

[Giraffe]

Nice to see you hear by the way, Julian. Welcome

Did you see him or hear him?

[David McKinney]

Blame the doorbell ringing at an inopportune moment

[Giraffe]

Blame the doorbell ringing at an inopportune moment

Was it Crispian, by any chance.............?

[Graham Gauld]

Doug Nye will confirm, but I think that this must be the Gomm-bodied Lister-Jaguar later driven by dear old Bruce Halford, and in which Jim Clark had his first international race. Who has it now?

Before the comment above becomes "gospel" let me confirm that Jim Clark's first International race was in 1958 with the Border Reivers D-type Jaguar at Spa. They did not buy the Lister until the following season.

[Giraffe]

Before the comment above becomes "gospel" let me confirm that Jim Clark's first International race was in 1958 with the Border Reivers D-type Jaguar at Spa. They did not buy the Lister until the following season.

My personal claim to fame (I think) is that as a child I sat in that D-type before Jim, when it was owned by Gillie Tyrer who was a friend of my father in Liverpool.

[Doug Nye]

A little flag waving never did any harm for most folks bank balances Doug :-) Besides you can't blush on the Intelweb can you ?

Thanks for the (ahem) tip :-)

I can try. An animator? Bristol? Not with Aardman are you? If so - RESPECT!

DCN

[arttidesco]

I can try. An animator? Bristol? Not with Aardman are you? If so - RESPECT!

DCN

Fab blush !

No I am not with Aardman Doug, I am a tad more independent and a lot lower budget, but I'll pass on your respect next time I catch Peter Lord.

Respect for your contribution to Skid Solo btw, I bet that looked good on your CV :-)

[Tim Murray]

I'm sure TNFer smarjoram will appreciate Doug's comment, though.

[norvin998]

"Is there such a thing as a Lister Jaguar Register?"

Were there to be such a thing I could track down the owner of BHL20...

Whilst browsing through the motoring section of a secondhand book shop in Somerset I came across an original copy of Doug Nyes book "Powered by Jaguar". Ideal holiday reading thought I & parted with my pennies.

On settling down for a read out dropped a clipping from the Buckingham Advertiser, probably dating from the mid 60s, which detailed the forthcoming Silverstone August bank Holiday meeting & also the fact that a Bucks local ,Capt A J B Mackreth, would be racing his Lister MG there.

Along with the clipping are some handwritten notes on the back flyleaf by AJ with details of his car. Doug Nye mentions the chassis number in the book (maybe the updated edition has more information?) but thats all. Very good read b.t.w. I love the description of the lifestyle enjoyed by chaps who owned these cars when new - drive down to Portugal for a race, back home for a hillclimb, over to italy for the MMig & then run one on the road for fun. If only....

It's nice to have a link to the past which mentions your pride & joy so maybe the current owner of BHL20, reg'd as 442PPP, might be pleased to have the book & its content? Happy to swap for the new edition.

Mike

[arttidesco]

Posted on behalf of Ed Arnaudin this pic is thought to bw taken at Lime Rock meeting 24th April carried over to 9th May 1959.

There were two meetings at Lime Rock held over 3 weekends at Lime Rock in 1959 24th April carried over to 9th May and 2nd May.

Ed is sure as 50 year old memories will allow that he attended the 24th April meeting, I've looked through Racingsports cars .com and Terry O'Neils North East Sports Car races yet can find no evidence of a #61 Lister Jaguar for any of those dates.

But there is evidence in Terry's book of a #62 Lister Jag driven by Briggs C in the #62 BHL 123 on May 9th.

Wondering if anybody might be able to confirm who the driver is of the #61 is and what the date might have been ?

Also am I correct in thinking BHL 102 always raced with the #61 number while it was part of the Cunningham team ?

Thanking you in anticipation of your responses :-)

Edited by arttidesco, 08 January 2011 - 14:44.

[raceannouncer2003]

The Briggs Cunningham site has lots of the race history. If you go to 1959, there are lots of races they did. Here is the link:

http://www.briggscun...e/race-history/

And apparently BHL 102 was not always raced with the number 61.

Vince H.

[Terry O'Neil]

Posted on behalf of Ed Arnaudin this pic is thought to bw taken at Lime Rock meeting 24th April carried over to 9th May 1959.

There were two meetings at Lime Rock held over 3 weekends at Lime Rock in 1959 24th April carried over to 9th May and 2nd May.

Ed is sure as 50 year old memories will allow that he attended the 24th April meeting, I've looked through Racingsports cars .com and Terry O'Neils North East Sports Car races yet can find no evidence of a #61 Lister Jaguar for any of those dates.

But there is evidence in Terry's book of a #62 Lister Jag driven by Briggs C in the #62 BHL 123 on May 9th.

Wondering if anybody might be able to confirm who the driver is of the #61 is and what the date might have been ?

Also am I correct in thinking BHL 102 always raced with the #61 number while it was part of the Cunningham team ?

Thanking you in anticipation of your responses :-)

I'm not saying that I have the answer, but put the following theory forward as an explanation to the picture, which I think is taken at Lime Rock, but possibly at the SCCA national event in July.
It could be that the second picture was taken during practise and the car had a different set up and gear ratio to the other cars. Cunningham would then have been able to choose which of the cars was best suited to the track. It would be interesting to find a picture of the Cunningham transporter to see precisely which cars were on it.
Terry

[arttidesco]

Thanks for your help Vince

[arttidesco]

Thanks for your help Vince

Edit and Terry :-)

[arttidesco]

Apologies Terry here is the full pic of the car on the track which I perhaps should have posted first time, I believe the tree without leaves would have been unlikely in July, unless '57 had particularly unusual weather conditions (?). I was wondering if the #61 might have been used as a spare.

Vince the Cunningham site seems bereft of any mention of being at Lime Rock in the 24th April - May 9th time frame but does mention being at Danville on May 3rd with Briggs in the #23 Osca, Hangsen in #61 BHL 123 and Dick Thompson in the #61 Lister no chassis number.

Would I be correct in thinking these were single day events and that racing at Lime Rock on May 2nd and then again at Danville on May 3rd can be ruled out by the 600 mile distance between the venues ?

Would the tree in the picture above have so few leaves on the 4th of July, when the Cunningham team were at Lime Rock with the #23 OSCA for Briggs, #63 Porsche (?) for Forno, #62 Lister for Briggs, #64 Lister for Hangsen ?

Did the Cunningham team have the capacity to get five cars to a meeting ?

[RWB]

Quite right. Via Nick Linney. For some reason once I found the Chev ('BHL18') in my notes I stopped looking

Nice to see you hear by the way, Julian. Welcome

Managed to find the 1980 GP programme which confirms Bobby Bell Lister Jaguar.

[Terry O'Neil]

Apologies Terry here is the full pic of the car on the track which I perhaps should have posted first time, I believe the tree without leaves would have been unlikely in July, unless '57 had particularly unusual weather conditions (?). I was wondering if the #61 might have been used as a spare.

Vince the Cunningham site seems bereft of any mention of being at Lime Rock in the 24th April - May 9th time frame but does mention being at Danville on May 3rd with Briggs in the #23 Osca, Hangsen in #61 BHL 123 and Dick Thompson in the #61 Lister no chassis number.

Would I be correct in thinking these were single day events and that racing at Lime Rock on May 2nd and then again at Danville on May 3rd can be ruled out by the 600 mile distance between the venues ?

Would the tree in the picture above have so few leaves on the 4th of July, when the Cunningham team were at Lime Rock with the #23 OSCA for Briggs, #63 Porsche (?) for Forno, #62 Lister for Briggs, #64 Lister for Hangsen ?

Did the Cunningham team have the capacity to get five cars to a meeting ?

Now that I see the full photo I agree it was not the July meeting, though I still think it is Lime Rock.
2nd May can be ruled out as that was a LISCA organised event, so we are left with the April/May date. I suspect May by looking at the shirt sleeves and sunshine, as the April date was wet and cloudy.
Denise McCluggage was there with the Cunningham OSCA but I cannot account for the presence of the Lister-Jaguar unless it was doing a test in preparation for another event such as Le Mans.
Terry

[Zagato_Olaf]

Kind of begs the starter question if said inexpensive Lister book has a title Doug ?

Hello Arttidesco,

I know of at least two books on this subject:

'Archie and the Listers' written by Robert Edwards, published in 1995 with ISBN 1852604697
'Lister-Jaguar' written by Paul Paul Skilleter, published in 2010 with ISBN/EAN 9780955010231

Ciao, Olaf

[arttidesco]

Now that I see the full photo I agree it was not the July meeting, though I still think it is Lime Rock.
2nd May can be ruled out as that was a LISCA organised event, so we are left with the April/May date. I suspect May by looking at the shirt sleeves and sunshine, as the April date was wet and cloudy.
Denise McCluggage was there with the Cunningham OSCA but I cannot account for the presence of the Lister-Jaguar unless it was doing a test in preparation for another event such as Le Mans.
Terry

Thanks again for your help Terry, some sort of testing is the only thing that makes sense too, though I wonder why the #61 was not also raced ? Another mystery with answers lost in the depths of time perhaps

That's 3 Lister books on my 2011 Christmas list Olaf thanks for the tips

[David McKinney]

Hello Arttidesco,

I know of at least two books on this subject:

'Archie and the Listers' written by Robert Edwards, published in 1995 with ISBN 1852604697
'Lister-Jaguar' written by Paul Paul Skilleter, published in 2010 with ISBN/EAN 9780955010231

Ciao, Olaf

To which would have to be added "Powered by Jaguar" by Doug Nye ISBN I-899870-77-6
with which you get - at no extra cost - the bonus of Cooper-Jaguars, HWM-Jaguars, Tojeiro-Jaguars etc

Edited by David McKinney, 09 January 2011 - 14:14.

[arttidesco]

In reverse order David thanks 'Powered by...' was already top of by list see post #25, I am sure Doug will make will make sure you get your usual commission

Thanks for checking the 1980 British GP programme Robert