213 replies to this topic

[GreenMachine]

Yes, wooden aircraft FTW!  I spend some years every Saturday working on a DH9A (PD!) and a Pfalz DXII, woodworking skills, tools and the right timbers were all that was required.  Those completed, we moved onto all-metal aircraft, that was a very different proposition.

 

The one caveat I would place on wooden airframes is the glues used.  These need to be carefully selected for the expected environmental conditions, Mosquitos built for the European theatre suffered structural problems in the hot and humid Pacific theatre, and this required a new glue that would handle those conditions.

[Bikr7549]

According to Wikipedia 30 nonflight worthy airframes still exist, and 4 more are flyable. 3 of the flyers are reported to be in the US, 1 in Canada-no other details provided.

Wood can be a wonderful structural material. On a stiffness per weight basis it can rival many metals. Strength per unit weight is another matter.

Edited by Bikr7549, 24 April 2022 - 14:46.

[Odseybod]

Worth mentioning of course that the Mosquito's construction is a wooden composite, involving balsa and 3-play, as illustrated here:

 

 

Avspecs in NZ made some new master-moulds a few years ago and have now produced (I think) three brand new Mosquitos, though their Merlins are originals.

[Lee Nicolle]

People maintain 100 year-old old wooden launches, yachts and dinghies, and they spend some of their time sopping wet...

A wooden boat is generally made from solid wood, not lightweight laminates. A bit like comparing steel with aluminium.

A plane made from the same woods as a boat would never fly.

At Echuca in Victoria there is no end of paddle boats. And barges. They have barges awaiting resto/ repair literally sunk in the vicinity of the wharf.

A paddle boat that was 'rescued' from the Murray was being completly replanked as it had dried out and had huge gaps. 

40+ years ago the PS Adelaide was on display on the Murray banks at Echuca,, subsequently rebuilt and no doubt replanked as it is back on the river. There was others also, most of which are back on the water.

Different woods different scenarios.

Laminates are quite fragile,,, and a LOT lighter than solid wood.

[Bikr7549]

Worth mentioning of course that the Mosquito's construction is a wooden composite, involving balsa and 3-play, as illustrated here:

 

 

Avspecs in NZ made some new master-moulds a few years ago and have now produced (I think) three brand new Mosquitos, though their Merlins are originals.

 

Too bad this is so short!

[kayemod]

Worth mentioning of course that the Mosquito's construction is a wooden composite, involving balsa and 3-play, as illustrated here:

https://www.youtube....h?v=ycMkH5bSMKo

Avspecs in NZ made some new master-moulds a few years ago and have now produced (I think) three brand new Mosquitos, though their Merlins are originals.

Quite a long time ago when I was a fairly junior young engineer at Lotus, a friend and colleague there had served an apprenticeship as a cabinet maker at coachbuilders Vanden Plas in north London. His woodworking skills were somewhat wasted at Lotus, they had him working on things like bought-in Elite and Esprit door handles and the like, but he often entertained me with tales of his training and work at VP. They were one of probably many suppliers making parts like fuselage halves for Mosquitos, apparently they turned out hundreds of these on a production line. He was born in the late 1940s so had no part in that, but there was Mossie evidence still around the place. One day he was sent up to a large and dusty storage area above the factory workspace, where he discovered possibly a ton of balsa wood that dated from the Company's Mosquito days, and given balsa's light weight, that's a vast amount of wood, all shipped from Ecuador on the far side of the U-Boat patrolled south Atlantic. The stuff was still there when he left Vanden Plas some time in the late 1960s, and he had no idea what became of it, or even if the factory still exists.

[GeoffR]

A wooden boat is generally made from solid wood, not lightweight laminates. A bit like comparing steel with aluminium.

A plane made from the same woods as a boat would never fly.

At Echuca in Victoria there is no end of paddle boats. And barges. They have barges awaiting resto/ repair literally sunk in the vicinity of the wharf.

A paddle boat that was 'rescued' from the Murray was being completly replanked as it had dried out and had huge gaps. 

40+ years ago the PS Adelaide was on display on the Murray banks at Echuca,, subsequently rebuilt and no doubt replanked as it is back on the river. There was others also, most of which are back on the water.

Different woods different scenarios.

Laminates are quite fragile,,, and a LOT lighter than solid wood.

My brother in law's family built a replica of a Murray River paddleboat (Adelaide?) many years ago. However not long ago they had to re-caulk the red gum hull, only to find that they could no longer get the tar based caulking compound. End result was a loss of the traditional red gum hull, replaced with steel plate!

Sorry, nothing to do with the iconic Mossies.

Edited by GeoffR, 25 April 2022 - 11:04.

[Myhinpaa]

Quite a long time ago when I was a fairly junior young engineer at Lotus, a friend and colleague there had served an apprenticeship as a cabinet maker at coachbuilders Vanden Plas in north London. His woodworking skills were somewhat wasted at Lotus, they had him working on things like bought-in Elite and Esprit door handles and the like, but he often entertained me with tales of his training and work at VP. They were one of probably many suppliers making parts like fuselage halves for Mosquitos, apparently they turned out hundreds of these on a production line. He was born in the late 1940s so had no part in that, but there was Mossie evidence still around the place. One day he was sent up to a large and dusty storage area above the factory workspace, where he discovered possibly a ton of balsa wood that dated from the Company's Mosquito days, and given balsa's light weight, that's a vast amount of wood, all shipped from Ecuador on the far side of the U-Boat patrolled south Atlantic. The stuff was still there when he left Vanden Plas some time in the late 1960s, and he had no idea what became of it, or even if the factory still exists.

 

The Vanden Plas factory at Kingsbury closed in 1979, the HQ building still stands + the original Kingsbury House.

 

HQ building today + "Flexioffices". Kingsbury House which the grounds were a part of, here.

 

AROnline article with mention of Mosquito production + link to a Thames Television report from 1974: https://www.aronline...ingsbury-works/

 

Article from Brent Magazine also covering the Mosquito: https://legacy.brent...els article.pdf

[Gary Davies]

A small aside. My late father-in-law piloted Beaufighters with 30 Sqn RAAF in New Guinea, operating from Port Moresby, Goodenough and Lae.

 

He would tell me that you didn't truly understand the trial of high humidity and high ambient unless you spent time working, with no escape from it apart from time in the air, in that part of the world.

 

He was told, at one point, that the squadron was transiting to Mosquitoes. As much as he admired the type, his acute technical instincts told him this was not the best option for aircraft operating in the rough and tumble of combat in that region.

 

Of course, 30 Sqn never did operate Mozzies and I believe the RAAF only ever used them for photo reconnaissance, performance evaluation, R&D, OTU and Ferry/Survey operations.

 

 

Quite wise.

[Dipster]

A small aside. My late father-in-law piloted Beaufighters with 30 Sqn RAAF in New Guinea, operating from Port Moresby, Goodenough and Lae.

 

He would tell me that you didn't truly understand the trial of high humidity and high ambient unless you spent time working, with no escape from it apart from time in the air, in that part of the world.

 

He was told, at one point, that the squadron was transiting to Mosquitoes. As much as he admired the type, his acute technical instincts told him this was not the best option for aircraft operating in the rough and tumble of combat in that region.

 

Of course, 30 Sqn never did operate Mozzies and I believe the RAAF only ever used them for photo reconnaissance, performance evaluation, R&D, OTU and Ferry/Survey operations.

 

Quite wise.

 

Many years ago (early 70's) I worked with a gentleman who was an ex-RAF policeman. He told me that when he was stationed in Egypt they had Mossies (no idea whether they were stationed there or passing through) and he related how "the wings started drooping due to the heat". This last post stirred the memory banks deep within so I mention it here.  Not that I doubt my ex-colleagues words could this have happened? 

[Bloggsworth]

The early production aircraft were assembled with Casein glue (a dairy by-product). It doesn't like water and every insect/mould/fungus loves to eat it.

In 1943 they changed to Aerolite - the stuff used in chipboard. Fine with water & heat and not very tasty.

Would that have been Cascamite? I seem to recall mixing crystals with water in woodwork classes back in the day...

[1969BOAC500]

According to Wikipedia 30 nonflight worthy airframes still exist, and 4 more are flyable. 3 of the flyers are reported to be in the US, 1 in Canada-no other details provided.

 

The three airworthy aiframes in the US are new airframes built by Avspecs in New Zealand to original spec (one of these has just been sold). The Cnadian one is an ex Saprtan Air Services postwar B.35 which has been restored and used for short flights only.

 

BTW I'm a volunteer at the de Haviland Museum in the UK and have been involved with the three original airframes there for 20 years. The question we're most often asked is 'Are any of these going to fly?' To do this the CAA would insist that the load-bearing structures ( ie fuselage & wings ) would have to be replaced by new-build items (presumably from Avspecs). As this would involve destruction of the original-build airframes, you're better off simply buying a new one.......

[Paul Hurdsfield]

In my former life as a Shopfitting Joiner we were still using Cascamite in the 1980s, it was used mostly in the veneer shop, and we would always use it on solid wood shopfronts.

It does set very hard and brittle though, some more modern glues set with a bit of flex in, which would probably cope better with the vibrations in an airframe.

[raceannouncer2003]

Here are links to a couple of videos of one restored right here in Victoria, British Columbia, Canada:

 

 

 

Vince H.