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#1 Rainer Nyberg

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Posted 06 December 2000 - 20:31

Does anyone have a picture of the flat-12 engine made by Tecno?

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Rainer

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#2 Keir

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Posted 06 December 2000 - 22:58

Tecno, "The Engine That Couldn't"

#3 desmo

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Posted 08 December 2000 - 09:02

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#4 Felix Muelas

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Posted 02 January 2001 - 21:01

Rainer,

the same, only bigger...
;)

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#5 BRG

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Posted 06 January 2003 - 15:21

I was about to post a new thread asking about Tecno, but found this one, which does not seem to have gone very far!

Grandprix.com gives this brief account of Tecno:-

“Gianfranco and Luciano Pederzani ran a factory in Bologna producing hydraulic pumps but in 1962 they began to look for ways to expand their engineering business and established the Tecnokart company, building go-karts. Two years later they began to build Formula 4 cars and in 1966 a Formula 3 chassis. The following year Clay Regazzoni, Mauro Nesti and Tino Brambilla began to show well in the cars and for 1968 there were customers all over Europe, a huge success with a total of 54 victories and the Italian (Franco Bernabei), French (Francois Cevert) and Swedish (Reine Wisell) championships. The same year the chassis was adapted for the Formula 2 regulations and the team ran Regazzoni and Carlo Facetti in the European Championship. There were soon F2 customers as well and success followed.

In 1970 Tecno was dominant in Formula 3 and won the European F2 title with Regazzoni. At the same time Count Gregorio Rossi of the Martini company decided that he wanted to sponsor an Italian Formula 1 team and approached the Pederzanis. Luciano designed a flat 12 engine and a fairly conventional chassis - designated the PA123 - was designed and appeared with Nanni Galli driving at the Belgian GP at Nivelles in June 1972. The cars were also driven by Derek Bell but neither driver enjoyed much success that year.

The 1973 season proved to be very disappointing. Martini - which took over the team name - insisted that a British base be established under David Yorke. He commissioned Gordon Fowell to design a new chassis. At the same time the Pederzanis hired Alan McCall to rework the PA123 in a B specification. Chris Amon was signed to be the driver in a one-car effort but the team was split by politics and technical confusion. Amon scored a point at the Belgian GP but soon afterwards the team fell apart. The Pederzanis stopped all sporting activities and Martini joined the Brabham team.”

Can anyone give me some more background on Tecno? For instance, did they stop everything else when they entered F1, or were they still running in F2/3. Isn’t there still a Tecnokart marque? Is it the same company? What was the background to the Tecno F1 engine and did they ever build any other emgines? Why did the F1 effort fail and what did the Pederzanis do afterwards? And any good old TNF trivia will of course also be welcome!

#6 eldougo

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Posted 07 January 2003 - 10:48

:yawn:
In reply to BRG question ??

( and what did the Pederzanis do afterwards? And any good old TNF trivia will of course also be welcome! ) .
____________________________

A company named NOVA motors in a Novara Italy ran by the Pederzanis brothers where
the gun TOYOTA engine F3 builders in the mid70,s may be that,s one of them. :wave:

#7 ian senior

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Posted 07 January 2003 - 10:56

Wasn't Novamotor run by the Pedrazzanis, not the Pederzanis? Seem to remember this caused no end of confusion at the time.

#8 bill moffat

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Posted 07 January 2003 - 12:38

BRG..a couple of other details that may be of interest.

Other than the Ducati powered F4 they also produced (in 1965) a Fiat 850-powered car for the Italian 850 formula.

43 F3 cars were produced in 1968 , powerplants included the usual Novamotor and Holbay versions although Tecno apparently also produced their own in-house engine (thus answering one of your questions). The growing success of Tecno (with the focus on high production output) was marred by the fact that it was virtually impossible to get spares for these cars.....

#9 BRG

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Posted 07 January 2003 - 14:05

Originally posted by bill moffat
Tecno apparently also produced their own in-house engine

Based on what, I wonder? The ubiquitous Ford, or something Italian? F3 has always AFAIK required a modified production engine rather than a purpose built racing engine.

#10 bill moffat

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Posted 07 January 2003 - 14:13

Originally posted by BRG
Based on what, I wonder? The ubiquitous Ford, or something Italian? F3 has always AFAIK required a modified production engine rather than a purpose built racing engine.


Quite right..Tecno based their's on the Ford 105E engine.

#11 Frank de Jong

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Posted 07 January 2003 - 19:22

AFAIK, now we come to Tecno trivia, they made their own 1971 F2 engine (still 1600 cc) based on a Ford BDA, in sharp contrast to the Cosworth FVA (and the single BMW) of the competition. The engine was said to develop 250 HP, in which case it would have been a competitive 1972 engine too...

#12 fines

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Posted 07 January 2003 - 20:29

Originally posted by Frank de Jong
The engine was said to develop 250 HP, in which case it would have been a competitive 1972 engine too...

A bit fanciful, maybe...

#13 David M. Kane

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Posted 07 January 2003 - 22:41

Which came first the Alfa flat-12 or the Tecno? I saw both engines at Watkins Glen and as a package they were huge compared to the DFVs.

#14 petefenelon

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Posted 07 January 2003 - 22:49

Originally posted by David M. Kane
Which came first the Alfa flat-12 or the Tecno? I saw both engines at Watkins Glen and as a package they were huge compared to the DFVs.


I'm pretty sure the Tecno (mid '72) made its competition debut before the Alfa (early '73). Alfa had been using 2, 2.5 and 3l V8s for a while before introducing their flat-12 in sports cars- the V8 getting as far as F1 in March and McLaren chassis too. There was a long gap between the last March-Alfa V8 and the first Brabham-Alfa flat 12, although there has been more than the odd rumour that the low, flat, wide monocoque of the Hill GH2 would've been a nice fit for a flat-12 engine...

pete

#15 RJH

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Posted 07 January 2003 - 23:20

The Tecno 1 litre Formula Three engine was the probably the ultimate development of the 105E engine, running up to 13,000 rpm and utilising a very clever inlet manifold. The Formula Two engine was in effect a belt driven FVA rather than a BDA. This gave a better inlet port path and made it the class of the field, whatever power it produced.
Tecno stopped making customer cars towards the end of 1970, but a few cars crept out of Bologna later.
Spares were difficult for UK based competitors, the only solution being to trek down to the factory.
Tecnos ofcourse still make the successful a Go Kart, but the basis of the business was large hydralic valves and 'modern' furniture, both in wood and glassfibre. Indeed there was a Tecno furniture showroom in Londons Bond Street in the 1990's.
In addition to the F1 engine they made a two litre flat 8. Unkind people suggested that it was the 12 with 4 cylinders hacked off! Infact it was more subtle, indeed I still have a monocoque we built for it.

#16 David M. Kane

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Posted 07 January 2003 - 23:33

RJH:

Who are the "we" you refer to? Secondly, tell us more about the flat-8, that sounds very interesting.

What did that 1000cc F3 engine sound like...a hornet?

#17 Frank de Jong

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Posted 08 January 2003 - 19:54

Originally posted by RJH
The Formula Two engine was in effect a belt driven FVA rather than a BDA. This gave a better inlet port path and made it the class of the field, whatever power it produced.

I've just checked Autodrom 1971, which states that Tecno used the Escort RS (BDA) head, belt-driven indeed. So the block was most probably still a FVA. Interesting engine.

#18 RJH

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Posted 08 January 2003 - 21:15

Dave and Frank:
The 'we' is my company Lenham Hurst Racing which used to build the Lenham racing cars. GTs. Group 6 Sports Cars, F3, FF,FF2000. Small runs of the single seaters admitedly.
We also looked after and ran a variety of other cars including a bunch of Tecnos. Infact I still have one. The heads for the F2 engine were specially cast, this I know because I delivered them as unmachined blanks.
I hope this clears the picture. Its just good to talk (write) about Tecno. They were very good cars.

#19 David Beard

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Posted 08 January 2003 - 21:26

If I might make a small contribution...

I seem to recall that it was Tecno who introduced the waisted, flexible chassis to kart racing, when British manufacturers like Keele had been making minature space frame racing car style ones.. The flexible idea endured.

I also seem to recall that the notable feature of Tecno F2 cars was extremely heavy steering.

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#20 eldougo

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Posted 09 January 2003 - 05:29

:D RJM

I hope this clears the picture. Its just good to talk (write) about Tecno. They were very
good cars.



I would agree with you, does anybody have any photos of F3 & F2 cars to post.

CHEERS.

#21 Scuderia Pinguino

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Posted 09 January 2003 - 12:11

A couple of titbits on the Alfa and Tecno engines.

In the mid 80's, I bought most of the remnants of the Hill GH cars which, from memory, comprised 2 GH1's, a GH2 tub and a T370 tub plus lots of spares, bodywork etc.

The T370 tub puzzled me at the time because the back of the tub had been so modified that it would not accept a DFV. About a year after I bought the cars, Ian Flux who worked for the Hill team in the 70's came to see me and instanly identified the Lola tub as the one that had altered to take the Alfa engine - mystery solved.

On the Tecno engine. I bought an Osella PA1 in '96 which was fitted with a 1300cc engine that was very obviously Cosworth based. Obvious visual dfference were in the top end. The cam cover was not Cosworth. it was a flat item in aluminium and machined from solid and the metering unit and drive were fixed to it in the normal BD way. The injection slides were again machined from solid and opened vertically unlike the Lucas system which opens laterally. The block was an FVA that been bored and linered to take 87.7mm pistons and it used FVC rods and a very short stroke crank, I imagine it revved like ****. At the time, I had no idea who make these elaborate mods until I came across some old Tecno F2 cars in Italy and lo has and behold, the engines were visually identical, although the the C.C. would have been different. I still have most of this engine.

#22 petefenelon

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Posted 09 January 2003 - 12:26

Originally posted by Scuderia Pinguino
A couple of titbits on the Alfa and Tecno engines.

In the mid 80's, I bought most of the remnants of the Hill GH cars which, from memory, comprised 2 GH1's, a GH2 tub and a T370 tub plus lots of spares, bodywork etc.

The T370 tub puzzled me at the time because the back of the tub had been so modified that it would not accept a DFV. About a year after I bought the cars, Ian Flux who worked for the Hill team in the 70's came to see me and instanly identified the Lola tub as the one that had altered to take the Alfa engine - mystery solved.

Splendid stuff - thanks very much for confirming this longstanding rumour! Tony Brise in a Hill-Alfa - now there's a might-have-been :(

pete

#23 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 01 April 2008 - 18:11

:wave: Does any of you know if the Pederzani brither are still here ? Or have any contact to them ? :wave:

#24 Richard Jenkins

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Posted 01 April 2008 - 19:37

Originally posted by Bjørn Kjer
:wave: Does any of you know if the Pederzani brither are still here ? Or have any contact to them ? :wave:


Gianfranco is. He lives in Bologna (or so I'm aware) and is now 74.

Luciano died on the 10th January 1987, in Modena, aged only 61.

#25 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 02 April 2008 - 05:57

:wave: Thanks Richie !

#26 rwills

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Posted 13 November 2009 - 23:24

Apologies if this has been covered somewhere else but I did a search and didn't find much.

I knew a lot more about the F3 and other cars than I did about F1 but it is very interesting.

I took a look at Allen Brown's ORC and in 1972 there were 3 Tecno F1 chassis out there - PA123/1, PA123/2 and PA123/5.

In 1973, there was another one car - PA123/6. I guess an updated and later spec car.

Firstly, any idea why there was a skip in chassis numbers with 3 and 4 missed? Or were perhaps these chassis run in a different spec and maybe therefore different formula?

I'm sure there is a good explaination of this and we all know the fun and games that went on with chassis numbers for many reasons (tax, etc) but having a brief look around this is one I just don't understand. I'm sure, as always, this is the place to find the answer.

Also, was the engine really a truly new and in-house effort? It seems quite amazing that they would undertake something like that when the Cosworth DFV was there and perhaps other options. Was it the archilles heel of the car and was it at all competitive? The power numbers from it seem impressive but who knows if they are real!

Roger

#27 macoran

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Posted 13 November 2009 - 23:42

Some Tecno artwork I have posted elsewhere
Bruno Betti's cutaway
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Werner Bührer's drawing from his 1972 F1 series
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Bührer’s drawing of PA123 with side view of the Goral E731
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In the yearly Grand Prix season review in Road&Track magazine, Werner Bührer sketched all of the cars for the ’72 review. Here his rendering of the Tecno chassis and car.
Posted Image

Edited by macoran, 13 November 2009 - 23:54.


#28 MarkBisset

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Posted 04 September 2022 - 02:24

411-D51-BC-895-E-451-D-B74-C-5-CF7-E90-B

 

The first Tecno PA123-72, chassis PA123/1, upon its public launch in Modena, December 24, 1972.

 

A blast from the past of an old thread.

 

Just trying to complete an article, the missing bits are more about post 1973 than before it.

 

Did David Yorke ever justify the staggering low-percentage-play of going with Goral/Gordon Fowell for the 1973 Martini & Rossi/Yorke (Tecno E731) chassis? 
 

A6812-E60-6-D10-4016-9-EA7-FDC1-DC0-C009

 

Nanni Galli aboard PA123/1 upon its race debut, Nivelles, June 1972. DNF accident, car written off (MotorSport)

 

While Luciano Pederzani is dead (10/1/87-Bologna), Gianfranco is still alive.

 

Were they that pissed off with racing after the disasters of 1972-73 that going back to construction of customer racing cars from 1974 wasn't an option?

 

Post racing the only references I can find to their business activities are about 'carrying on their subcontracting business'.  Was this enterprise the one which made hydraulic pumps for the trucking industry? Or another?

 

It seems to me these were prosperous, wealthy men who had options, intrigued to know - as others were on this thread 20 years ago - the detail of what they did later in life.

 

7-EF98752-E5-A6-495-D-8606-53965-E05-C3-

 

 

Is this book any good? It's exy, just want an owners view before shelling out my hard-earned Pacific Pesos


Edited by MarkBisset, 04 September 2022 - 02:39.


#29 davidbuckden

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Posted 04 September 2022 - 07:24

Mark - maybe my love of flat engines and 'lost causes,' but I am very nostalgic about Tecno, often thinking of 'what might have been' - see here.  I don't have a copy of La Storia, but I have had a look through it and consider it good - especially for the photography. Given today's book prices, I don't think it's bad value. The Tecno marque is not extensively documented, especially outside Italy, so I think any work like this is worthwhile. Regards, David



#30 Henk Vasmel

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Posted 04 September 2022 - 10:53

I have the book, but it is on the long list of "still to read". Just took a look again, and it seems good value, though prices vary a lot. Lowest I have seen on a quick search is €100.

Photo reproduction is very good and the text is bilingual (Italian & English) though not parallel. 

Appendix shows all F1 races, but for smaller cars only the owners.



#31 MarkBisset

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Posted 04 September 2022 - 21:37

Thanks guys,

 

Time you read it, Henk, then we can swap notes! I'll get onto it, dunno how I missed that one when it was first released. Actually I do know. It was on the market after my good friend Tony Johns (on this manor) ceased his motorbook sale business and the tactile, visual splendour of new product was no longer in my face on a monthly basis... 

 

And yes David, I love the 'so near but so far' outfits too. If nothing else it makes you realise at elite level just how small the space is at the apex of the pyramid.

 

396-CC015-4-DE1-4-A25-882-C-89089261-F64

 

“Joisus David, my 250F was quicker than this thing…” (magnolia ox.com)


Edited by MarkBisset, 04 September 2022 - 21:41.


#32 nexfast

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Posted 05 September 2022 - 06:36

I have the book. It is a very interesting record of the firm's racing activities with quite nice photos as mentioned by others, while giving space for contemporaries involved in Tecno's adventure to express their thoughts. Not very explicit about post-racing but it confirms Luciano Pederzani went back to the hydraulic pump business (also to agricultural endeavours) while Gianfranco had quit the company by 1972. Worthwhile buying, I believe, if you are writing an article about it.



#33 guiporsche

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Posted 05 September 2022 - 10:48

As nexfast says, the book is vague about their post-racing activities. It becomes clear, though, from the narrative, that after all the conflicts with Martini, the Pederzanis were disillusioned with motorsport and had no intentions of going back in time. They believed that the introduction of the Goral chassis dispersed the team's focus at a time when their own car was becoming competitive; they were already working on a flat-8 for the following season.

 

The book is absolutely worth having: excellent photo reproduction with countless great shots of the workshop, technical details, etc. Some nice side profiles of their monoposti as well. The narrative is very solid and rarely for a bilingual book published in Italy, the English translation is readable and miles better than those of Giorgio Nada. It is one of my most prized and favourite books.

 

In producing their own engine, they clearly took way an overambitious step. Looking at the workshop and its (dis)organisation, for instance, it is clear that they had no financial and logistical means (nor the human resources) to make it successful over a series of seasons even in the medium-term. Luciano actually believed they might have had won a race even in 1973 (it's in the book), so there was certainly a degree of overoptimism in there. 'Wealthy' they might have been compared to a normal Italian citizen, but certainly not enough to compete at the highest level while producing chassis and engines, even with Martini money.



#34 MarkBisset

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Posted 05 September 2022 - 22:36

Thanks guys, to Allen Brown too who has sent me some scans - sold - will get hold of a copy. I'll pop the article up in the next week or so anyway, can easily add to it later.

 

My partner is Italian, so I've an inhouse interpreter to make good the correct translation, I quite like the idea of her reading me a story.

 

 

5-FE98-BDA-20-EA-402-B-9526-E3-DF14-B060

 

The Goral/Fowell Tecno E731 at Silverstone during GP practice (MotorSport Images)

 

It certainly looked the goods - and different. Packaging of the car visually superior to the Tui/McCall Tecno. Rear 'banana' wing fibreglass, a first it's claimed, nice flow to is as well. Ideas as to fettler?

The MotorSport Images caption says Chris only did two laps in it. He wasn't concerned with the politics it seems, allocating his time correctly to the quicker - then - car. This chassis was never fully developed, but Amon clearly felt some latent potential, enough to put his trust in Fowell for the Amon...

 

BF7-FFF6-A-B8-AD-4-A92-AF58-A2-B2-C4-F04

 

Another British GP shot, Brands, the year before. (grandprixphoto.com)

Nanni and David, do you think Luciano Pederzani at left? 


Edited by MarkBisset, 05 September 2022 - 22:54.


#35 jeffbee

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Posted 06 September 2022 - 09:27

I remember a comment at the time that Tecno would have been better off with a DFV at the rear and with Regga as the driver!!



#36 opplock

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Posted 06 September 2022 - 11:25

 They believed that the introduction of the Goral chassis dispersed the team's focus at a time when their own car was becoming competitive.

 

 

 

"Becoming competitive" was wishful thinking bordering on delusional. Belgian GP - qualified 15th, finished 6th 3 laps down. Monaco - qualified 10th, DNF. Sweden - no show. France - no show. Britain - qualified 29th and last, DNF. Netherlands - qualified 19th, DNF. Austria - qualified 23rd, non starter. Never to be seen again. 



#37 john aston

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Posted 06 September 2022 - 11:37

I well remember watching  and listening to Amon driving the Tecno down the pit lane at Silverstone. From the furious revving and general air of fury ,  his frustration was very clear.  



#38 guiporsche

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Posted 06 September 2022 - 11:56

"Becoming competitive" was wishful thinking bordering on delusional. Belgian GP - qualified 15th, finished 6th 3 laps down. Monaco - qualified 10th, DNF. Sweden - no show. France - no show. Britain - qualified 29th and last, DNF. Netherlands - qualified 19th, DNF. Austria - qualified 23rd, non starter. Never to be seen again. 

 

As I wrote, even decades afterwards Luciano was still over-optimistic of what they could have done...



#39 nexfast

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Posted 06 September 2022 - 23:11

 

 

 

Another British GP shot, Brands, the year before. (grandprixphoto.com)

Nanni and David, do you think Luciano Pederzani at left? 

Looks more like Gianfranco who had longer hair than his brother and a less classic taste on shirts than Luciano.