24 replies to this topic

[arttidesco]

Some time ago I tried unsuccessfully to identify the chassis numbers for some photos I took at the British GP in 1980 and 1981 of some Alfa Romeo 179's.

I did end up reading about the whole 179 saga in contemporary Motor Sports and collected close to 200 different Alfa 179 images from the net.

Since it was beyond DSJ to report the Alfa Romeo 179 chassis numbers with any degree of accuracy I thought it would be 'fun' to make a pictoral time line with the images I collected instead.

Last week Sonar kindly helped me identify the location of one picture to the Oestreichring, this week I am struggling with another and wonder if any one help me out with the location where this photograph of Bruno Giacomelli in an Alfa Romeo 179 was taken ?

The date credited is 09 09 79 and location is given as Monza, however for it's debut race on 09 09 79 Alfa Romeo spruced the 179 up with white paint, and I believe the car ran with the same scheme at the non Championship Imola Race soon after. Does anyone have any evidence of this ?

By the time the 179's got to the States for the fly away races they had acquired flick ups on the back of the side pod as can be seen clearly on Bruno's car in Canada and Vittorio's at Watkins Glen.

Thanking you in anticipation of your responses :-)

[f1steveuk]

I only have my race data with me, which reads

British GP 1980 Bruno used 179-6

British GP 1981 Bruno used 179B-6

This was taken from the FIA archive, from which I was building a race data base for Formula One Management, so it's reliant on what Alfa told the FIA they were running!

[arttidesco]

Thanks Steve,

Is the FIA archive available on line ?

[f1steveuk]

Sadly no, and if it was I am sure BCE would be using it to make a fortune! When I got to see it last it was a two ton block of paper mache as there had been a massive water leak, but like I said, although it is what the FIA accepted as the entries, it doesn't mean that what the team raced and what they said raced will always be accurate, just look at March chassis numbers!!

[arttidesco]

Thanks Steve, I'll bear in mind what you say about the chassis numbers.

I am wondering if there were any TNF'rs at 1981 Spanish GP who have any pictures they can share with us ?

I have looked all over the web and found a couple with Sutton, LAT and Schlegemilch images which all seem to suggest Alfa Romeo went back to racing their 'B' spec cars at the 1981 Spanish GP, though all the available written evidence contradicts this.

[Michael Ferner]

Looks to me like the first chicane at Monza - maybe practice or testing?

[arttidesco]

Thanks Michael, possibly annual testing before the Monza race would anybody know ?

[arttidesco]

Trying to tie up some loose ends on the Alfa 179's wondering, does anyone know of any good clear pictures of the Alfa Romeo 179 T other than this one, preferably on the net or in publications ?

[Pullman99]

Trying to tie up some loose ends on the Alfa 179's wondering, does anyone know of any good clear pictures of the Alfa Romeo 179 T

If it helps, these two F1 Alfas are in the Biscaretti in Turin taken by myself last year but I am not sure as to the provenance of either.





The above is one of the 179Bs



I am afraid that I do not have the chassis numbers of these cars but contact with the Biscaretti may help. They open fully again next year following extensive rebuilding and re-display.

Museo Carlo Biscaretti di Ruffia website

[arttidesco]

Thanks for the fab pics Pullman the top one is a 1981 179B painted to look like a 1982 182, I shall be writing to the museum in the fullness of time to see if they are to divulge the provenance, it has already been suggested to me that this might be a show car.

Curiously the Donington Collection has a 182 painted to look like a 183 but calls it a 179. A picture of this vehicle has found it's way onto Alfa Romeo 179 wiki page where it stands out like a sore thumb, not grasped the full intricacies of Wiki to point out the error yet :-)

So far I have seen only one 179B currently in existence with anything close to an accurate paint job and that is ironically incorrectly labelled as a 1980 179C :-)

The bottom one is a 184 and I have not come close to looking at that model in any detail yet but I love the Alfa Red nose on these models :-)

Edited by arttidesco, 25 July 2010 - 19:21.

[Pullman99]

Curiously the Donington Collection has a painted to look like a but calls it a 179.

And here it is back in February!

[arttidesco]

Absolutely no doubt this is a 182 featuring single plane front wings (check), and funny filler/breather pipe coming out of the back of the fuel tank (check), and painted in 1983 scheme with smaller red rear chevron (check) and no red flashing on the nose (check) Fab picture of a fab car but not a 179 :-)

[Pullman99]

Hi artidesco!

Noted your comments on Goodwood and thought you might like some more pics on the Alfa-Romeo F1 car from Saturday. This, according to the chassis plate, is 182 - 06

Static only I'm afraid. Didn't manage to catch it on the hill.



















Hope this is of some help!

[arttidesco]

Pullman99 these are fabulous, thanks for the Goodwood pix :-)

In every detail except the paint work 182 06 resembles the car you photographed at the Donington museum (see post 11) above, which the Museum incorrectly describes as an Alfa Romeo 179 :-)

[f1steveuk]

not grasped the full intricacies of Wiki to point out the error yet :-)

I wouldn't bother. They had a page on me for a while. I had developed a nasty case of extra wife, and at least one extra child, not to mention other work related errors. When I contacted them and asked if I could correct it I was asked to explain how I felt qualified to do so!!!!

I then mentioned that vast tracts of books I have written had appeared in various entries, and an acknowledgement, at the very least would be nice. The reply? "Have you got any photographs to go with them?"

Ian, great pic's. I always miss Goodwood when there's things I would really loved to have seen!

[arttidesco]

I wouldn't bother.

Sounds like a challenge too good to turn down Steve :-)

[arttidesco]

Just stumbled across an Alfa Romeo for sale advertised simply as being 1981 Alfa Romeo F1.

Any one thinking of purchasing it might be interested to know it resembles neither of the two basic 179 shapes raced in 1981 which were most obviously only raced with a full width aluminium tea tray front wing



and which can be categorised as the 179 C/D versions raced at the beginning and end of 1981. Note the C version pictured above appears to have been used in practice sessions through out the season as seen here at the British GP.



and the 179 B version raced in the middle of 1981 from the Spanish to Austrian GP by Mario with Bruno racing a 179 B for the final time in Holland.

The car advertised for sale is painted to resemble the Alfa Romeo 182's raced in 1982 and indeed resembles the 182 in every respect except one, namely so far as I know and i stand to be corrected on this the 182 only ever raced with single plain front wings either side of the nose, where as the car offered for sale clearly has front wings with two planes, a feature first seen on the Alfa Romeo 183 T used in 1983.

[Allen Brown]

Just stumbled across an Alfa Romeo for sale advertised simply as being 1981 Alfa Romeo F1.

As it's Hall & Hall, I would imagine this is the car from the Donington Museum - which I had always believed to be on loan from Alfa Romeo. Comparison with pictures on Flickr would quickly confirm this. Purely from memory as I don't have my notes to hand, I think that at first they had a N179 and then a N182 but didn't change the board in front of the car. Tom's paperwork was never great - it is reputed that he believed he owned the Bellasi and the Shadow DN7 when both those were loans too.

[arttidesco]

Hi Allen, I do not believe the Hall & Hall car is the 182 that has been showing in the Donington Collection for two reasons :-

first the the Donington Collection car, unlike the Hall & Hall car is not painted in the correct 1982 colours and

second the 182 in the Donington Collection has the single plane front wings either side of the nose unlike the Hall & Hall car which seems to feature twin plane front wings usually associated with the 183 T.

late PS the Hall & Hall 182 is also distinguished by those twin plane front wings from the 182 that Pullman snapped in post #13 at Goodwood above.

Edited by arttidesco, 18 August 2010 - 11:29.

[arttidesco]

I think that at first they had a N179 and then a N182 but didn't change the board in front of the car. Tom's paperwork was never great.

Thanks for enlightening me as to why so many people have been posting pics on flickr of the Donington 182 as a 179 !

[Duane]

arttidesco, Are you sure the bottom car is not a 185T, I seem to recall the 184T having shorter sidepods and top exiting for the radiators. Side venting for the radiators was used by Ferrari and Lotus in 85. I too love the Alfa red on the 84-85 cars!

Edited by Duane, 19 August 2010 - 11:54.

[Pullman99]

As it's Hall & Hall, I would imagine this is the car from the Donington Museum - which I had always believed to be on loan from Alfa Romeo.

Hi Allen,

I posted some pics on this thread previously, taken at Donington in February. I think that the Hall & Hall car is neither the Donington car nor that which participated in the Goodwood FOS this year. No doubt an enquiry to H&H would help resolve the issue.

[Allen Brown]

Yes indeed, I guessed wrong. I spoke to Bill Harding yesterday and he told me that the car in H&H's advert is Robs Lamplough's car. Robs bought this at auction some years ago and never raced it. Bill is sending me the details.

[arttidesco]

arttidesco, Are you sure the bottom car is not a 185T, I seem to recall the 184T having shorter sidepods and top exiting for the radiators. Side venting for the radiators was used by Ferrari and Lotus in 85. I too love the Alfa red on the 84-85 cars!

Well spotted Duane, as I said I have not really got into the F1 Alfa's post 1981 yet, but thanks your quite right the car at the bottom of post 9 is a 185T not a 184T as I suggested in post 10

Looks like the 185T ran with two longer side pod configurations than the 184T.

[arttidesco]

Yes indeed, I guessed wrong. I spoke to Bill Harding yesterday and he told me that the car in H&H's advert is Robs Lamplough's car. Robs bought this at auction some years ago and never raced it. Bill is sending me the details.

Thanks Allen, looks like Robs has an impressive collection of vehicles his 182 with twin plane front wings is seen here on road wheels :-)

Edited by arttidesco, 19 August 2010 - 12:51.