16 replies to this topic

[thomaskomm]

Hi all! May i ask you all greats experts in which year (89,90,91,92until 94) with the mighty 3,5 ltr. engine rule had F1 most downforce in common? I know the rules tightened every year, the diffuser was smaller, the safety was better from year to year, but which year was the F1 car (frontrunner of course) the fastest? Thanks for answers, this theme occupied me since years, i love the sounds from the v8 and the Lamborghini engine, the Honda engine V12 and if i hear this sound my dermal becomes turkeys..... what a diversity compares with now....

Thank you and a nice day

Thomas

[MODE]

For a passive car Id' say 1994 : full rear diffuser till 94 before Senna accident and their cut, Benetton B194 one below (Ascari Benetton B197 with a full (B194) diffuser) :

[thomaskomm]

Thank you MODE for you answer, www.gurneyflap.com is a must, one of the best sites in racing, wow, it´s your site? I love gurneyflap, You know that Dan Gurney this flap created and Dan is one of my beloved racing driver, very fine guy! But 1990 and 1991 the f1 cars had very big diffuser and yes you are correct, until Sennas accident they were very fast, but in 1992 the Williams was in my mind one of the fastest cars. I have memory that Nigel Mansell said in Silverstone he had g-force about 6 g. Is that possible? 1990 the f1 cars in common wasn´t very safe (think the cockpit walls you could look the shoulders from the driver. Safety standard are very, very better today, but most of the tracks are very boring! I love the CART and Champcar from the eighties and early ninetys with engines from Ford, Honda, Toyota and Chevrolet (Illmor copy the Cosworth DFX, but they need long years to figured out what Duckworth made with the engines vibrations). This was my favorite series! Last time in Montreal the Champcars drove 1.22 a lap, now the f1 drive 1,18 sec, not much or?

Thomas

[Tony Matthews]

... if i hear this sound my dermal becomes turkeys.....

Me too!

[Dan333SP]

LOL, I was going to quote that same bit. Something was definitely lost in translation there

[Rob G]

LOL, I was going to quote that same bit. Something was definitely lost in translation there

Not entirely. I think he means goosebumps!

[macoran]

Not entirely. I think he means goosebumps!

brilliant conclusion ! Sir, you have a talent for languages !

[MODE]

Thanks Thomas for the kind words on Gurneyflap website (of course I'm a fan of D.Gurney too). I'd say active 93 cars and especially the Mclaren MP4/8 had the highest downforce level, at the end of the year McLaren had made a good jump in performance and at Suzuka which is a fast corners track they were faster than the FW15C (in spite of a deficit of maybe 80 bhp in power ? )

[Tony Matthews]

LOL, I was going to quote that same bit. Something was definitely lost in translation there

Actually, I think it gained a lot - I will always endevour to use that phrase whenever I can. God bless the English language!

[MODE]

If I remember well Tony had a close look at the FW15C (drawing in a RaceCar Engineering Mag ), maybe you got all the secrets by P.Head

[Ray Bell]

Wouldn't this question better be posed in the Technical forum...

I think people like Mr A, desmo and so on would jump right on it there.

[Ross Stonefeld]

Not entirely. I think he means goosebumps!

I had a similar incident in Italy many years ago. Girl going on about 'duck skin' and pinching at her forearm. "When your skin. Is cold. But you are excited."

It was easily 10 minutes of complete bafflement on my part. And once I did figure out what she was on about I laughed so much I worried I was embarrassing her.

[Rob G]

brilliant conclusion ! Sir, you have a talent for languages !

Say what now?

[Dan333SP]

He's a cunning linguist, I suppose...

[thomaskomm]

Hi All! Sorry for my english language, but i hadn´t learn english in my school time. All the english language i posted here, i had doing myself. Without teacher, and yes of course, i mean goosebumps! Please don´t be hard for my bad english, nobody from my friends and workmates they speak not a single word of english. I try my best for english languages but i´m coming from German and most of them can´t speak good english inclused myself....
Back to the thread: Great thanks for all our reply! But why are the F1 today so slow compares a couple years ago? Cart had 2002 0r 2003 with the Ford standard engine (very, very fine engine, very much cheaper than today the overrated f1 with budgets i´m can´t understand why so much money they need. CART had in common a budget per car max. 4-5 million $ and they was only 4 seconds off the pace from today f1 with empty tanks! In my mind the f1 is absolutely overrated. They give so much money for the littlest change. NO, NO, NO go back to the old 3,5 litr. engine and with 700 Hp and the cost of f1 was an very cheaper series. But f1 is the pinnacle from racing! Willy Mairesse said in a small little book that the 1,5 ltr. f1 1962 was his highlight, said that all other series not compares with the f1 car. Wild Willy was one of my absolutely favorite driver in F1, Le Mans and 1000 KM Nürburgring in the sixties. This is here on nostalgia absolutely right. It gaves much heroes in racing, A.J Foyt in the sixties, Mario Andretti, he was one of the best driver, he knows if the team made changes on the car instantly, Senna of course, Lloyd Seay (1941 shot from his cousin). I can you many anekdotes tell about Lloyd Seay, cause this guy was unbelievably: If they was two slow driver in front of him, he take the line between the slower driver, took his car on two wheels and drove in the middle of them! Spectacular and the crowd loved him, long before the days which Nascar (1949) was established, his best years was 39 and 41 he had an old Ford 39 Coupe and drove like an hell driver. but Tazio is the best for me of all drivers in the history of racing. Think on Lloyd Ruby, Nazaruk, Gaston Chevrolet with his frontenac on wood ovals with tempis about 240 km/h (yes, 1920!) The whole Miller thing with his miller 91 (260 Km/h) Wow i love the old racing this is my live until...I love Ricky Rudd, Dale, Elliott and the hardest driver and charger Curtis Turner, Jim Hurtubise, Ralph Hepburn and so much other hard core driver.
Today f1 cars drive like on rails and all what have they do is to make fitness for the g-force, 2010 the g-forces was ca. 15-20% lower than 2009. I would love if you all give more reply

Edited by thomaskomm, 15 June 2010 - 07:28.

[Tony Matthews]

If I remember well Tony had a close look at the FW15C (drawing in a RaceCar Engineering Mag ), maybe you got all the secrets by P.Head

I probably have photos of the diffuser under the rear end of the FW15C, but all my boxes of prints are stacked in the attic, and it could take some time to find the right box - so I won't be looking for a while!

Thomas, your English is pretty good! And I like dermal has turkey more than goosebumps!

[thomaskomm]

I probably have photos of the diffuser under the rear end of the FW15C, but all my boxes of prints are stacked in the attic, and it could take some time to find the right box - so I won't be looking for a while!

Thomas, your English is pretty good! And I like dermal has turkey more than goosebumps!

Big thank you, Tony, and yes i love your drawings, absolutely fantastic, have all drawings saved. I miss the f1 from the sixties, seventies. All the great drivers, i was almost every year to Nürburgring since 69 and this was my most exciting racing experience in my live (But i loved the Formula Supervee too). My favorite driver was always Freddie Kottulinsky, Keke was fast too and i saw first time Niki Lauda 69 with Formula Vee! Great time! i would love to have a photo from the diffuser, i have always an eye to the detail.....Wish you very well
Thomas

Edited by thomaskomm, 15 June 2010 - 18:30.