234 replies to this topic

[Birelman]

Well, he pulled a Webber on Webber and won!

Edited by Birelman, 27 June 2010 - 12:51.

[krapmeister]

Kova did nothing wrong - just think Mark overestimated the braking ability of the Lotus...

[noikeee]

I'm a Webber supporter and this was Mark's fault 100%.

[merschu]

Appropriate for this thread. Here is the Mark Webber crash video.

http://www.dailymoti...-crash-valencia

[tarmac]

Looked like a brake test

[Meanbeakin]

Kova moved right, then pulled left then braked suddenly. They were pretty close to the braking zone though, I'd say Mark got distracted by Heikki's moving.

Heikki definitely had a right to defend but I don't think he was entirely innocent by moving around like that, I can imagine Mark might've been getting a bit confused behind him. Mark could've had a better awareness of the braking zone though. Combination of the 2 causing the accident there.

[KateLM]

Kova moved right, then pulled left then braked suddenly. They were pretty close to the braking zone though, I'd say Mark got distracted by Heikki's moving.

Heikki definitely had a right to defend but I don't think he was entirely innocent by moving around like that, I can imagine Mark might've been getting a bit confused behind him. Mark could've had a better awareness of the braking zone though. Combination of the 2 causing the accident there.

I'd actually agree with that. Obviously it was Webber who ran into Kovalainen and so he is clearly to blame, but I think Heikki's defending confused things a bit.

Edited by KateLM, 27 June 2010 - 13:16.

[dexter311]

Kova moved right, then pulled left then braked suddenly. They were pretty close to the braking zone though, I'd say Mark got distracted by Heikki's moving.

Heikki definitely had a right to defend but I don't think he was entirely innocent by moving around like that, I can imagine Mark might've been getting a bit confused behind him. Mark could've had a better awareness of the braking zone though. Combination of the 2 causing the accident there.

Exactly my thoughts. Combine Heikki's two slight defensive moves with the huge braking performance disadvantage of the Lotus and Mark would have no doubt been confused, especially when the Lotus braked much earlier than he would have.

Spectacular flight, but he didn't quite nail the landing - a 7 from me!

[krapmeister]

Seriously, Kova did nothing wrong. If anything confused Mark it was probably a combination of Mark underestimating the closing speed - remember this is the first race RBR have used the F-duct - and overestimating the braking ability of the Lotus. Heikki had every right to defend the way he did...

[Ben Wilson]

Heikki had every right to defend the way he did...

What did he have to gain by defending? There was no way he was going to stay ahead of a car 3 seconds faster; all he would do by defending is slow both cars down and risk an accident..

[Supersleeper]

Well, he pulled a Webber on Webber and won!

Awesome one handed thread.

Not sure that I can ever recall seeing Webber wander around pointlessly 3 or 4 seconds a lap slower than the car behind him defending by wandering from left to right and then back to the left again - but hell - it's a thread about slagging someone that went closer to being killed than anyone would like to see - so don't let anyone with a sense of decency stop anyone from dishing out some mental vomit in the cause of proving some pointless case that will have no bearing on the race.

Brilliant.

You're not really Mike Gascoyne, are you? He's got to be one of the most classless acts twitter has ever seen.

[Supersleeper]

...unfortunatley I've left out the most important point - how much we were all looking forward to Heikki in a Lotus defending From Webber in a Red Bull for the next 50 laps of the race.
We were certainly robbed of some top line racing there - weren't we!

[Meanbeakin]

Technically, Heikki was within his right to defend against Mark, it was for track position. Obviously they were in 2 different races but if Heikki wanted to defend then he was within his rights to do so. It's the way he did it that was a bit dodge.

[bogi]

Wtf is Kova defending, he was literally doing 50kmph...

[VresiBerba]

Looked like a brake test

If it did, what would be the rationale behind it

[Birelman]

Awesome one handed thread.

Not sure that I can ever recall seeing Webber wander around pointlessly 3 or 4 seconds a lap slower than the car behind him defending by wandering from left to right and then back to the left again - but hell - it's a thread about slagging someone that went closer to being killed than anyone would like to see - so don't let anyone with a sense of decency stop anyone from dishing out some mental vomit in the cause of proving some pointless case that will have no bearing on the race.

Brilliant.

You're not really Mike Gascoyne, are you? He's got to be one of the most classless acts twitter has ever seen.

Well, I started it as a joke, (outwebbered webber, get it?) nobody was hurt, so, no harm done. But in your little post you managed to insult me by calling me indecent, trying to make me look like I have a negative agenda towards Webber, and topped it off by calling me classless, thanks!!! anything else?

[VresiBerba]

What did he have to gain by defending?

Nothing, it doesn't mean he was wrong when or if he did, though.

[Bloggsworth]

100% Webbers fault - Kovalainen moved left Webber followed and drove straight into him.

[VresiBerba]

(outwebbered webber, get it?)

Well, I don't.

[PassWind]

Webbers fault, end of chat

[Palmero]

Mark drove back into the slipstream in the braking zone, it was a suicidal move, Marks fault 100%.

[kismet]

Frontrunners and their fans sometimes get confused when little people exercise their right to race.

[VresiBerba]

100% Webbers fault - Kovalainen moved left Webber followed and drove straight into him.

I wouldn't say it was Webber's fault entirely, but he sure caused the accident which begs the question now since Webber already has a reprimand for doing exactly this; driving into the back of another driver. Will the FIA back their tendency to reprimand a driver with further penalty.

[JonathanProc]

Better quality http://news.bbc.co.u...one/8766194.stm (UK only)

LOL at Legard "OH NO! Mark Webbers went right up there!"

Glad hes ok though.

[2ms]

Just another example of Weber being his dumb ass self pig-headed barreling along racetrack taking same stupid risks as always. When I saw him and Hamilton starting next to each other front of grid I was sure there would be massive crash in first turn. Fortunately, one of them had terrible start.

[V8 Fireworks]

Well, he pulled a Webber on Webber and won!

He didn't win, he also crashed.;)

[Coral]

That was a very scary accident, I'm glad Webber's OK. But I don't see why it was Kova's fault. He was defending, they were racing for position.

[Kooper]

Frontrunners and their fans sometimes get confused when little people exercise their right to race.

[primer]

I'm a Webber supporter and this was Mark's fault 100%.

And this is why Webber will never be a WDC, as soon as he is racing against another driver he gets the short dick syndrome (like Trulli) and causes avoidable accidents. He's very fortunate to survive that accident unharmed.

[alfista]

On Beeb DC again acted as a Red Bull team member. I really wondered I totally agreed with EJ.

Edited by alfista, 27 June 2010 - 14:13.

[jack_rabbit]

It remind me this crash with Jacques and Ralf

Edited by jack_rabbit, 27 June 2010 - 14:18.

[bogi]

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/84836

"I think Mark was surprised how early I had to brake for that corner.

[Supersleeper]

For the record Trulli (Heikki's teammate .... somehow I feel compelled to add that for your benefit) finished 4 laps down. Nobody wants to see racing between drivers that aren't going to finish within 3 laps of each other. Apparently you do - so enjoy the back of the field battle for the rest of the season.

This should perhaps give you an idea of Heikkis headspace - the accident occurs and Heikki says " I think he just ran into the back of me" - you what? - you THINK the guys that just went flying overhead actually ran into you? Fortunately someone with a brain (not Mike Gascoyne) radioed back to say "Yes - we can confirm he did".

He's a mental midget - not sure why McLaren ever signed him, but not hard to see why the pointed him to the door at their earliest convenience.

A pointless attempt at defending by a driver hardly worthy of a superlicence.

[alg7_munif]

This is not the first time Webber hits someone under braking...

[metz]

What did he have to gain by defending? There was no way he was going to stay ahead of a car 3 seconds faster; all he would do by defending is slow both cars down and risk an accident..

Glad that Mark is OK but sometimes, unlike you, I tire of defending his "entitlement".
This time it was clearly his frustration of losing positions at the start that lead to this bone head move.
He's got to learn to keep his emotions in check.

[PassWind]

For the record Trulli (Heikki's teammate .... somehow I feel compelled to add that for your benefit) finished 4 laps down. Nobody wants to see racing between drivers that aren't going to finish within 3 laps of each other. Apparently you do - so enjoy the back of the field battle for the rest of the season.

This should perhaps give you an idea of Heikkis headspace - the accident occurs and Heikki says " I think he just ran into the back of me" - you what? - you THINK the guys that just went flying overhead actually ran into you? Fortunately someone with a brain (not Mike Gascoyne) radioed back to say "Yes - we can confirm he did".

He's a mental midget - not sure why McLaren ever signed him, but not hard to see why the pointed him to the door at their earliest convenience.

A pointless attempt at defending by a driver hardly worthy of a superlicence.

Complete garbage!

[PassWind]

Glad that Mark is OK but sometimes, unlike you, I tire of defending his "entitlement".
This time it was clearly his frustration of losing positions at the start that lead to this bone head move.
He's got to learn to keep his emotions in check.

Spot on, you could see by his attitude in the car he wasn't driving that well and had lost composure, he needs to watch someone with years less experience, say Kobayashi to see how a massive speed differential can be taken advantage of, its Marks weakest area and if he doesn't fix it, he wont be within a bulls roar of a championship, and I suspect this is his last year for an opportunity.

[JtP1]

I doubt if Kovalainen even knew Webber was that close, afterall look how much faster down the straight Webber is and how far back he comes from. There was more space down the inside into the corner than he left Vettel in Turkey.

Which brings the greatest piece of hypocricy and that is Coulthard saying slower cars shouldn't get in the way of faster cars when they are 4 secs a lap faster. Different from your day David, when you can be followed for 2/3 of a lap at Spa and not let the leader lap you with blue flags all the way.

So which commentator has the most selective memory from their F1 carreer, David Coulthard or Eddie Jordan?

[BinaryDad]

Sorry, but I have to say that Mark out Webbered himself really. It's not the first time he's gotten it wrong with passing drivers in front of him. You have to ask; why didn't he move more to the side as he approached the visiobly slower Lotus?

I'm glad that he's ok though. I was so relieved when he was moving and got out of the car.

[KateLM]

I'm not saying that Webber is blameless because he's not, but I think its worth keeping in mind what both Horner and Webber have said on the BBC, which is that the Red Bull's braking point is 80 metres later than the Lotus's. Gascoyne seems to be ignoring this point when he says that Webber missed his braking point, because he isn't taking into account that Kovalainen's braking point was not the same as Webber's braking point.

It doesn't exonerate blame exactly, but it helps explain what happened a lot better.

[Supersleeper]

Complete garbage!

Complients on you mindful response- for the record Webber has just confirmed the Heiiki braked about 80 meters from the normal braking point.

Argue that one all you want.....

[metz]

Complients on you mindful response- for the record Webber has just confirmed the Heiiki braked about 80 meters from the normal braking point.

Argue that one all you want.....

Heiki braked at HIS normal breaking point, which is much earlier than the RedBulls'.

[JonathanProc]

http://news.bbc.co.u...one/8766194.stm (UK only)

http://www.youtube.c...layer_embedded#!

Scary stuff here. Hope hes ok.

[krapmeister]

Complients on you mindful response- for the record Webber has just confirmed the Heiiki braked about 80 meters from the normal braking point.

Argue that one all you want.....

80m from his normal braking point.

However wouldn't that make Mark's braking point at something like 30-40m? I thought the accident happened at about the 100m marker, and most of the quicker cars seemed to be braking earlier than 50m for that corner...

[AlanWake]

Webber lost his cool today

[goldenboy]

think a backmarker being involoved in something like that was bound to happen at some point.

theyr'e both good drivers. kova did make 2 moves but wasn't that bad, webber probs got a bit greedy.

[jez6363]

I'm not saying that Webber is blameless because he's not, but I think its worth keeping in mind what both Horner and Webber have said on the BBC, which is that the Red Bull's braking point is 80 metres later than the Lotus's. Gascoyne seems to be ignoring this point when he says that Webber missed his braking point, because he isn't taking into account that Kovalainen's braking point was not the same as Webber's braking point.

It doesn't exonerate blame exactly, but it helps explain what happened a lot better.

It explains how utterly dumb Webber was to crash into the back of a car he KNEW was a lot slower and would be braking earlier. It should have been in no way a surprise, either to him, or his team.

What sort of driver doesn't know to pay attention when passing a slower car - Webber needs to really think hard about this, it was 100% his fault.

It would seem fairer if the FIA were investigating Webber for dangerous driving, rather than RB blaming the crash on slower cars.

[LoudHoward]

I think it was pretty much a racing incident. I don't think Heikki should've been defending, he's just slowing himself down, but he's ultimately perfectly entitled to. Mark is the car behind and has a responsibility to not hit him so the burden is on him. Mark obviously had to take slipstream, he was slower down the straight than the Lotus, I think he thought (good ol' speculation) that Heikki was going to go further left, and I think he just didn't expect Heikki to brake so early. To me it looked like Heikki started slowing down at the 150m odd mark. This is where Mark was at his normal braking point (where I think it is), the 100m board:



So, technically Mark is at fault imo, but I think it was just 'one of those things'. I think it should open some discussion on the three new teams defending though, it's just totally pointless for everyone involved.

Glad they're both okay though, I like both drivers.

Edited by LoudHoward, 27 June 2010 - 15:02.

[Supersleeper]

Heiki braked at HIS normal breaking point, which is much earlier than the RedBulls'.

Which only shows how pointless defending into that corner was. Well it was hardly defending, more like wandering from left to right without much of an idea.

[metz]

defending for position is NEVER pointless