13 replies to this topic

[Mistron]

Either the search function is up the spout, or I'm wrong in thinking it has been discussed before (I'm SURE it has....) but does anyone know the original name / code for the pale gteen used by UDT in the early '60's?

[Mistron]

oops, found it!
http://forums.atlasf...showtopic=52144

a bit unpredictable the search function!

[paulhooft]

oops, found it!
http://forums.atlasf...showtopic=52144

a bit unpredictable the search function!

That reminds me of Kermit the Fog singing:
It's not easy being GREEN...
Paul

[Mistron]

frogs? that's one for the 'rivet' counters, surely

(from the old joke "why can't frogs weld? They only know how to 'rivet'")

Another question. does anyone know the significance of the tartan strip on the nose of the cars? and whos / which tartan was it?

[Tim Murray]

Another question. does anyone know the significance of the tartan strip on the nose of the cars? and whos / which tartan was it?

Nobody seems yet to have come up with a definitive answer, but here are some earlier suggestions:

As for the tartan on the UDT-Laystall cars I think it was in honour of UDT Chairman Bob Gibson-Jarvie, but I'm nae sure from which clan yon Gibson-Jarvies drew their tartan. Other possibility, since Pa Moss was a partner in the team would be from his wife Aileen, Stirl's mum, who was another good Scot, but I doubt it. I must confess, I've never asked...

DCN

Thanks again, Doug. Checking a website of tartans and searching for the name Gibson brought up a tartan that looks quite like what I saw (and photographed) on a Lotus 18 at Coy's a few years ago.

I'm tempted to go with that one, regardless!

[Mistron]

"but I'm nae sure from which clan yon Gibson-Jarvies drew their tartan."

Could someone translate this for me? I'm Scottish.


Interestingly, the Gibson Tartans are the Buchanan, which is my Mums Tartan (she is a Harper)

The reason for the original question is that I am planning the restoration of a Lotus 7, and as my son's name is Innes, UDT colours seem appropriate. and as his middle name is Harper.....

decision made!

Edited by Mistron, 01 July 2010 - 18:08.

[D-Type]

Quick reality check. Clan tartans came about because either everybody in a village or Highland Glen bought their cloth from the same roll which the chieftain had purchased when he visited the big city or, it was the pattern the local weaver liked and as he was a big lad nobody dared ask for anything different. Then came the '45 and tartan was banned. Then following Walter Scott's novels becoming popular a romantic revival in the 19th century led to the revival of tartan and the cloth makers invented the clan tartan folklore. In my family's case my great-great-great grandfather (give or take a great or two) was a ploughman named Tosh. When he made good as a pub landlord he re-branded himself as MacIntosh. So, as the Rollo tartan was out of production and my great-great grandmother was a MacIntosh it became the family tartan. Until the they revived the Rollo tartan that is.

According to the tartan 'rules' the 'dress' tartan is the prerogative of the laird and the 'hunting tartan' is for the peasantry. As loyal subjects of the queen we are all entitled to use the Hunting Stewart. Better still, why not use "Racing Stewart" in your capacity as a racing subject of the queen rather than a hunting subject (but don't let JYS know or he'll demand a royalty!)

Alternatively as nobody seems to know which tartan UDT used you can pick one you like (or that is simple enough to paint) and find a convenient ancestor.
 

Edited by D-Type, 25 August 2020 - 14:25.

[RCH]

I had always fondly, but obviously wrongly, believed that the tartan noseband only appeared when Innes Ireland was driving?

[Tony Robinson]

Quick reality check. Clan tartans came about because either everybody in a village or Highland Glen bought their cloth from the same roll which the chieftain had purchased when he visited the big city or, it was the pattern the local weaver liked and as he was a big lad nobody dared ask for anything different. Then came the '45 and tartan was banned. Then following Walter Scott's novels becoming popular a romantic revival in the 19th century led to the revival of tartan and the cloth makers invented the clan tartan folklore. In my family's case my great-great-great grandfather (give or take a great or two) was a ploughman named Tosh. When he made good as a pub landlord he re-branded himself as MacIntosh. So, as the Rollo tartan was out of production and my great-great grandmother was a MacIntosh it became the family tartan. Until the they revived the Rollo tartan that is.

According to the tartan 'rules' the 'dress' tartan is the prerogative of the laird and the 'hunting tartan' is for the peasantry. As loyal subjects of the queen we are all entitled to use the hunting Stewart. Better still, why not use "Racing Stewart" in your capacity as a racing subject of the queen rather than a hunting subject (but don't let JYS know or he'll demand a royalty!)

Alternatively as nobody seems to know which tartan UDT used you can pick one you like (or that is simple enough to paint) and find a convenient ancestor.

Many people know which Tartan was used by U.D.T.but unfortunately do not read or subscribe to the forum.

The directors of B.R.P. Ken Gregory and Alfred Moss, thought it would be a nice gesture to display the Mcgregor tartan in respect of Bob Gibson Jarvie who was Deputy Chairman of U.D.T. and mainly responsible for arranging the amalgamation with B.R.P.

[D-Type]

Many people know which Tartan was used by U.D.T.but unfortunately do not read or subscribe to the forum.

The directors of B.R.P. Ken Gregory and Alfred Moss, thought it would be a nice gesture to display the Mcgregor tartan in respect of Bob Gibson Jarvie who was Deputy Chairman of U.D.T. and mainly responsible for arranging the amalgamation with B.R.P.

Many thanks Tony. This has been discussed at length previously and, as you say, nobody here knew. Now we do.

Is it coincidence that it was also appropriate for Robert McGregor Innes Ireland?

Edited by D-Type, 06 July 2010 - 17:38.

[Jager]

I guess if the good people of TNF can tell me the origin if the UDT Laystall tartan, hopefully someone can tell me the origins of their logo. Is it a twist on the old 'Tortoise and the Hare' fable?

 

[cooper997]

I can't help with an explanation on why, but I can tell you that in Peter Garnier's column in the 6 January 1961 The Autocar the logo is shown and captioned as "A golden hare on a black-and-white chequered flag background has been chosen as the emblem of the U.D.T-Laystall Racing Team."

 

Ian Wagstaff's Tony Robinson book may have the answer within its pages.

 

 

Stephen

[RobertE]

The green was known as Mint Green at BRP  - Pa Moss' choice - and I always assumed that the tartan was Innes'. But I will check my book again.

[D-Type]

I guess if the good people of TNF can tell me the origin if the UDT Laystall tartan, hopefully someone can tell me the origins of their logo. Is it a twist on the old 'Tortoise and the Hare' fable?

 

What was the corporate logo of UDT or of Laystall Engineering?  Was it perhaps a hare?

 

And on the question of the UDT colour, didn't Barry Boor  take a piece of a UDT car to Halfords and establish that the closest readily available green is a Toyota colour reference 521?

Edited by D-Type, 27 August 2020 - 20:37.