27 replies to this topic

[Vasco]

I remember reading in a spanish magazine back in 1983 that the 1984 Spanish GP, that could no longer be held in Jarama (for which reason I don't know), would be replaced by a street circuit in Fuengirola, near Marbella.
The project didn't apparently succeed as the GP went to Estoril.
However any information would be welcomed (trackmap, the backstages stories of this "event"...)

[fines]

I have only a dizzy memory of this, but would think the whole deal was a rather half-hearted attempt at keeping the race in Spain. Don't think that circuit ever existed outside the imagination of its inventors!

[jarama]

fines,

the suggested circuit were the streets and boulevards in front of the sea at Fuengirola, village nearby the well-known Marbella, southern Spain. BTW, Felix, who lives in Marbella if I'm not wrong, maybe can tell us the whole story
about this phantom race.

Vasco,

the race date was supposed to be on 21 October 1984.

[Vasco]

I know it was only a project but I remember seeing the trackmap in that magazine.
If only I had kept it...

Jarama:

21st October is the exact date of the 1st time F1 went to Estoril, isn't it?

[jarama]

Vasco,

indeed was the same date. About the track map, I have it in a book... but deplorably, I haven't scanner, so... maybe Felix?

PS to Felix: you'll find the trackmap of Fuengirola in the "Libro del año 1984-85 '4tiempos' del Automovilismo Deportivo"

[Marcor]

Another phantom race : the New-York GP ! I think it was also planned that year.

[jarama]

Vasco,

I've just received your e-mail, and this week I'll send to you by mail the trackmap of the suggested Fuengirola circuit.

[Felix Muelas]

Jarama,

I don´t have the book that you mention (and Javier del Arco will be upset with me because of that, but don´t tell him) but I have one of those famous "fichas" about the Fuengirola bluff.

It´s quite late today, so I´ll post the track, and if anybody is interested in some more details, please let me know and I´ll write something during the week.

BTW, no, I don´t live in Marbella, that´s too far away from Gibraltar, where I work on a daily basis.

Felix

[jarama]

Felix,

Don't question me why, but I was thinking you were living near Marbella...

[fines]

Felix, how long would that track have been? Looks awesome... kinda!

[Felix Muelas]

Michael

4,400 kms.
Awesome...or better daunting, as what is not seen in the map, but had to be seen, where the streets, avenues and concrete walls where the track was supposed to appear!

Although a contract was signed between the local authorities and, of course, Mr Ecclestone at around mid-March 1984 (with an expected date for the Grand Prix, as jarama pointed out, 21st October) it was only at the end of May that year that, after an inspection by FIA´s delegate Derek Ongaro, the dream was over and the "race" fell out of the official calendar.

Of course, it all came down to basic works not taking place and security concerns as the ones immediatly laid down by Lauda, for instance.

Felix

[Vasco]

Thanks guys for the information.

Now is there anybody who has the track map of that New York Marcor mentionned?

[Vasco]

Here is another circuit proposal for this phantom GP (thanks Jarama )

[fines]

Originally posted by Vasco
Now is there anybody who has the track map of that New York Marcor mentionned?

Vasco, I'm certain that I've seen one at the time, in one of my magazines I should still have. If somebody could give a clue as to when the proposal was exactly made maybe I could go digging!?

[Felix Muelas]

Michael

Whilst I did the browsing to find the Fuengirola track details, I am quite sure I saw at least three other "proposals". The names that ring a bell are New York, Paris and Moscow, but I could be wrong. If I am not, those should be available sometime in late 83-early 84 material.

If you find nothing, please let me know, and I´ll do the re-browsing again...

Felix

[Francis]

The New York Grand Prix was going to be held in 1983, and when it was cancelled it was replaced by the European GP at Brands Hatch.

I think it was cancelled in about June of that year, so I would suggest looking in the first half of 1983 for a track diagram.

[Rob29]

I remember seeing diagram & photos of proposed New York GP circuit at the time.It was in a park at Flushing Meadow and had a hump back bridge! It was on the calendar at some stage for 3 seasons,but never happened due to local beauocracy.Same thing happened when CART tried to race around the World Trade Centre a few years later.
I have alist of around 50 failed street race projects if anyone is interested.

[Felix Muelas]

Originally posted by Rob29
I have a list of around 50 failed street race projects if anyone is interested.

Of course!
Come on, that sounds interesting...

Felix

[Rob29]

Right here goes;
Street Races that never happened-unless anyone knows otherwise!
Date proposed

Acapulco MEX 4.86 (this one may yet happen for F.de la Americas-Mexian IndyLights)
Asuncion PY 7.90
Beiruit LEB 6.97
Berlin D 86 (not the AVUS)
Brisbane AUS 1.87
Calgary CDN 9.86
Cape Town ZA 3.95
Casper USA 3.95
Chicago USA 1.86
Englishtown,NJ USA 7.91
Fort Collins USA 3.95
Fuenguola E 83
Genoa I 8.87
Havana Cuba 10.99
Hawaii USA 4.90
Hobart,tas AUS 8.87
Howarth IRL 85
Hull,Ottowa CDN 11.93
Kennewick USA 2.89
Leipzig D 1.93
Lyons F 2.86
Naples I 1.99
New York,Flushing USA 83
New York,WTC USA 11.90
Norfolk,VA USA 11.87
Oakland USA 5.88
Oslo N 98
Pontiac USA 7.92
Rome I cmid80s
Rotterdam NL 11.88
San Francisco USA 98
Singapore SGP 10.88
St.Wendel D 11.89
Venice I 1.86
Washington,DC USA 7.91
Welkom ZA 9.97
Wichita USA 7.86
Yamoussiko,Ivory Coast 11.90
Plus the following in Britain i remember from before I started keeping record.
Bristol
Newcastle
Counbernauld
Stourport on Severn
London,Hyde Park,1945 (the police objected to the estimated 500.000 crowd! )

[Seebar]

Just stumbled upon this one (the amount of knowledge here is astounding!). In a guide to the 1984 season, published at the beginning of April that year (Formule 1 1984, by Anjès Verhey - quite infamous in the Dutch language area, but I digress), the Fuengirola race is mentioned on the 21st of October, but no mention of Portugal is given.

Does this mean that Portugal only knew about half a year before the race that they got the nod and could start organizing? Or did they just want a race on the Iberian peninsula when Spain failed to materialize?

[Rob29]

Originally posted by Seebär
Just stumbled upon this one (the amount of knowledge here is astounding!). In a guide to the 1984 season, published at the beginning of April that year (Formule 1 1984, by Anjès Verhey - quite infamous in the Dutch language area, but I digress), the Fuengirola race is mentioned on the 21st of October, but no mention of Portugal is given.

Does this mean that Portugal only knew about half a year before the race that they got the nod and could start organizing? Or did they just want a race on the Iberian peninsula when Spain failed to materialize?

Portugese race was added later in the season to replace one of those cancelled.At that time rules required 16 races ,no more and no less,so an extra one had to be rusllled up.

[Sharman]

I assume that the race projected for Venice was for F! Powerboats

[GMiranda]

 

 

These are the first plans of the Fuengirola circuit when it was announced to the press for, I believe, the first time. Autosport covered it on their January 20, 1983, issue.

Tiff Needell drove the track on a Formula Seat car for promotional purposes, and they were conscious that the layout wasn't definitive because there was a narrow area that would be impractical.

It seems it was the brainchild of Richard Radcliffe and his son Mark Radcliffe and Miki Dee.

Edited by GMiranda, 02 April 2025 - 12:24.

[nmansellfan]

Right here goes;
Street Races that never happened-unless anyone knows otherwise!

Plus the following in Britain i remember from before I started keeping record.
Stourport on Severn

Stourport on Severn! I just drove home from work there, wonder if I unknowingly did part of a proposed lap without knowing? I can't think of any reason why it would have been on someone's radar - the high street is narrower than most of Pau or Macau's lap...

Edited by nmansellfan, 02 April 2025 - 15:45.

[BRG]

 

....they were conscious that the layout wasn't definitive because there was a narrow area that would be impractical.

Which turns out to not be a problem.  If you receive enough Azerbaijani Manats, that is.

[GMiranda]

Which turns out to not be a problem.  If you receive enough Azerbaijani Manats, that is.

Money solves (almost) everything.

[chr1s]

Did we ever get to the bottom of why the race was moved from Jarama,  I seem to recall it was initially on the 1982 calendar?

 Wikipedia states it was because the circuit was deemed too narrow for modern formula one cars, but the maximum width hadn't changed since 1976, and 1981 apart, I seem to remember a fair bit of overtaking in previous races there. 

[GMiranda]

Did we ever get to the bottom of why the race was moved from Jarama,  I seem to recall it was initially on the 1982 calendar?

 Wikipedia states it was because the circuit was deemed too narrow for modern formula one cars, but the maximum width hadn't changed since 1976, and 1981 apart, I seem to remember a fair bit of overtaking in previous races there. 

I'm not sure if they wanted to leave Jarama after 1981's race, where nobody managed to overtake Villeneuve, or if there were business issues between FOCA nd the promoters, something I believe is more plausible.