85 replies to this topic

[Ray Bell]

Could it be he wants the big wing?

The wing Neil ran wasn't that big.

[SJ Lambert]

One thing of note.....Either Niel was short and Trevor is tall,
or the driver sits on a cushion these days.

I'm 5'10" & Trevor's shorter than me.

[SJ Lambert]

Tasmanian John Walker with a very nicely presented monocoque !


Photo from the Examiner Archive

Edited by SJ Lambert, 01 July 2016 - 23:11.

[Lee Nicolle]

The ME5 ran at PI as a Group R car. This is for post 1 January 1978 cars.

Why is it in this Group when it debuted in 1969. Should it not be in Group O?

If it ran in its proper category then it would have to have its correct livery.

The car is running in the category it is presented in. Like most historic cars they had over the years several period looks and liveries.  Trevor has presented it in the  period livery he chose. AS it was last raced here in Oz.

[TerryS]

I see that the Elfin ME5 is now for sale

http://www.my105.com.../elfin/id/21424

I sincerely hope that someone buys it and restores it to how it is supposed to look in that beautiful Niel Allen blue.

That current colour scheme and body changes are hideous and such a beautiful car does not deserve them

I remember seeing it at Warwick Farm in one of its first runs and thought it looked fabulous and like a stealth fighter.

see some photos of the "proper" Elfin ME5:

http://autopics.com....-nield/#gallery

http://www.oldraceph...165_F_ElfME5_69

http://autopics.com....raft/#gallery-1

[Ray Bell]

I'm sure Niel would love to see it like that too...

It must have been the day of his big win in it that you saw the car.

[lyntonh]

I saw the ME5 last weekend.

 

It's on display in the foyer of the main pit building at The Bend, next to the McLaren M8F which Jason White races.

 

Trevor Lambert lives just on the other side of Tailem Bend, so the ME5 is close to home.

 

My camera was back in the garage so no pictures, sorry.

 

My sentimental view is that the original blue would be nice,

but the car has been modified somewhat over the years,

so it still wouldn't look the same.

 

The discussion about which period cars should be restored back to, is long and tortuous.

Edited by lyntonh, 02 July 2019 - 01:34.

[Lee Nicolle]

Yes, as I said 3 years ago the car is presented as it last raced in Oz.

Often harder to go back in presentation though I do remember talking to Trevor long ago about the difficulties he had with an historic logbook.

[TerryS]

It’s for sale at the moment, so I expect it’ll find a new home in the fullness of time.

As I said previously I do hope that any purchaser restores it to the beautiful blue form that Niel Allen ran it in.

What would people rather see:

The present mess

Or as Allen ran it?

[ellrosso]

Here is article on the ME5 from early 1970. I know I have article somewhere (isn't in SCW - could be an Autosportsman) of it at Mallala unpainted - I'll post if I can track it down. Couple of pics too.

[lyntonh]

As I said previously I do hope that any purchaser restores it to the beautiful blue form that Niel Allen ran it in.What would people rather see:The present messOr as Allen ran it?

I would absolutely prefer the car the way I first saw it.

It was what I would describe as ‘pure’.

[Lee Nicolle]

As I said previously I do hope that any purchaser restores it to the beautiful blue form that Niel Allen ran it in.

What would people rather see:

The present mess

Or as Allen ran it?

Bloody hell. Present mess?  Hardly. A very nice car and as run in period. It is up to the owner about what era it is presented too.

And as I said above probably too hard to take it back too its original form.

How many racecars have not been modified heavily over the years?

[ellrosso]

Looked terrific in its original blue livery I reckon. Here is Auto Sports article.

[SJ Lambert]

Trevor has been very generous in lending us the ME5 to take back to Tassie for the 60 years of Elfin Celebrations!

This shot has Ron and Trevor's crew loading her up at The Bend on this Thursday just gone.

Edited by SJ Lambert, 08 September 2019 - 20:29.

[SJ Lambert]

Trevor Lambert lapping at Mallala in 2009

[Ray Bell]

...on more original wheels.

Those German (I assume they're German) wheels don't look right at all.

[Wirra]

[Ray Bell]

Charlie entering Leger?

[TerryS]

Doesn't it look much better in its original format than the current mess?

[SJ Lambert]

We’re going to have Johnny Walker at our “do” at the Bellerive Yacht Club next week along with Don Elliott to hear as many ME5 war stories as they’ve got in them!

(I’ve even placed a call to Niel Allen in the hope that he might be willing to share some ME5 reminiscences).

Edited by SJ Lambert, 11 September 2019 - 13:46.

[Ray Bell]

I don't know what Niel's condition is at the moment, but another to ask would be Peter Molloy...

I have no doubt that you'll get a story out of Niel if you get through to him.

[Lee Nicolle]

...on more original wheels.

Those German (I assume they're German) wheels don't look right at all.

While I tend to agree it probably boils down to having wheels that are available. Often to fit tyres that are available currently. Avon and Hoosier can probably supply most sizes, but then again maybe not. 

I know when I quit Sports Sedans in 2000 I could not get the correct front tyre,, and really my preferred size rear either. Tyres were all too wide or too small. The front was worst though. Car would not turn near as well,, and the inside of the tyre was hardly working.

And for these historics that can be the problem.

James 09 pic above I doubt are period wheels either.

Like a lot of things wheels wear out and short of finding somebody to make new ones the same, which would probably be horrendous. 

Those cars had full cast wheels? Or composites? .

[SJ Lambert]

Fully sand cast in magnesium in period.

Later on some were cast in aluminium, in recent years there has been a return to full magnesium castings.

Composites are also allowed in Historics these days.

[Ray Bell]

Were the originals cast in Adelaide or by CAC in Melbourne?

If the wheels in post 65 are not the originals, they are the same as them...

Reading through those stories, Garrie, Tony Alcock, Frank Matich, Bob Jane, Wayne Eckersley is in one picture, Adrian Van Loon, all gone. It's a good thing memories of this car are still alive.

[SJ Lambert]

CAC cast ‘em, Ron machined them (I’m pretty sure he did the first set for the ME5, I’m told that a rear was used as a bassinet for me!)

[E1pix]

Fully sand cast in magnesium in period.
Later on some were cast in aluminium, in recent years there has been a return to full magnesium castings.
Composites are also allowed in Historics these days.

My old friend and pinstriping client sand-casts heads for Packards and Auburns now. Very cool stuff.

He's talking about doing it for other historic and race cars, but may well retire first.

[SJ Lambert]

It was nice to see this pair together at the 2020 PI Classic.

The Elfin and is raision d’être

[Ray Bell]

The Elfin's wing being higher than in period...

 

And the Matich's wing being much lower.

[TerryS]

I see that the Elfin ME5 is still for sale.

It was advertised for AUD 280K in July 2019. Now it has been reduced by AUD 30,000 to AUD 250K.

Perhaps there are no buyers who like its present ugly livery.

It would be great if a buyer restored it to correct Niel Allen livery.

http://www.my105.com.../elfin/id/22334

[Lee Nicolle]

I see that the Elfin ME5 is still for sale.

It was advertised for AUD 280K in July 2019. Now it has been reduced by AUD 30,000 to AUD 250K.

Perhaps there are no buyers who like its present ugly livery.

It would be great if a buyer restored it to correct Niel Allen livery.

http://www.my105.com.../elfin/id/22334

Bloody hell,,,, IF buyers want the Niel Allan look they can buy it and downgrade it to new.

The car is presented to the John Walker Tassy era. Why can people not actually get that?

The only thing that annoys me is the black composites, black simply annoys me. Composites do not. 

Though I am sure there is more than one set of wheels with the car.

Those 50 y/o magnesium wheels are 45 years past their use by date. Does anyone actually have the patterns?

Edited by Lee Nicolle, 28 May 2020 - 00:57.

[Librules]

If you buy it, Lee, you can put the wheels of your choice on it. 😊 I'm more annoyed by the misspelling of Garrie as Gary, and of Occhipinti as well. Very poor research/proofreading.

[Lee Nicolle]

If you buy it, Lee, you can put the wheels of your choice on it. I'm more annoyed by the misspelling of Garrie as Gary, and of Occhipinti as well. Very poor research/proofreading.

Read what I said. I simply do not like the black wheels. A current ugly fad. From what I have seen the black wheels of any type were not used in period. Though I suspect they may be roll around wheels.

As for the car, sorry while I appreciate  the big sporties of that period they simply are not me.

And since I have not mentioned either of those blokes do your own research.

And for those moaning it is not as Niel Allan raced it,, buy it yourselves. Read my posts for the last year. 

Actually the whingers are insulting Trevor Lamberts resto of the car.

[Ray Bell]

If there should be any upset at spelling, then check out the spelling of 'Niel Allen'...

[Librules]

Too true, Ray. Lee, a chill pill please. I was referencing the ad, not you, in relation to misspelt names.

[Lee Nicolle]

Too true, Ray. Lee, a chill pill please. I was referencing the ad, not you, in relation to misspelt names.

It defenitly seemed like it.

[MarkBisset]

Always loved the ME5, I missed Niel Allen in it but saw Charlie Occhipinti and later John Walker race it.

 

Its such a shame it and Jane’s M6B didn’t appear earlier to give FM’s 4.8 litre Repco sledge-hammer a bit more of a run for his money in 1969.

 

From memory the car’s shortcoming was too short a wheelbase which made it a twitchy device, its a pity Niel didn’t persevere with it and develop it fully with Garrie/Alcock/Molloy - what happened in 1970?, with the SR4 in the side pocket the ASCC was there for Allen’s taking?
 

It was an important car in the pantheon of Elfins as it gave Garrie good experience of a current 5 litre car he out to good use in the MR5s in 1971- and the model ‘donated’ its uprights, brakes, wheels etc to the F5000 program, in that sense it’s influence extended beyond the one car.

 

its aero is what always stood out for me tho, great as it looked, Garrie was often conservative in his approach, a good idea in such a small market but the bodywork of the ME5 was quite different to any of the sportscars I can think of from 1969-1971- M8B, M8D, M8F, 908, all of the 917 variants, 512S and M Ferraris et al. The 1972 Ferrari 312PB is getting as wedgy as the ME5 and then Porsche took everybody in a different direction with the 917/10 Can-Am car in 1972- which GC followed with two of the bodies fitted later to the 360 Repcos and of course his own MS7 Repco Holden- in short its aero treatment was out there and seemingly effective.

 

A favourite car!