88 replies to this topic

[Andrew Hope]

Just curious. Saw a photo of Brands Hatch today and was reminded how much of a rollercoaster that circuit is in parts, so I was wondering what the tracks were with the steepest inclines and biggest drops and jumps and such are. I've got to think the Corkscrew at Laguna Seca is up there. Anyone recall anything similar, any parts of circuits where it feels like you're in a 100mp/h elevator going up or like a skydive driving down parts of a track? How about the biggest jumps and bumps on circuits? The onboard videos on Youtube of the old Long Beach circuit had a pretty big drop right after the pits. As far as bumps go, hard pressed to beat the San Jose CART track that went over train tracks .

I'm only thinking about road circuits, hillclimbs, tarmac rallies (Targa Florio, etc.) and street circuits here, not rallying or off-roading. Don't mean to use this board like a personal Wikianswers but Google turns up nothing, so let's reminisce about some crazy old tracks.

Cheers.

[gm914]

The "dipper" at Mt. Panorama, Bathurst is (literally) breathtaking!
Surrounded by walls and taken at speeds that put Laguna's Corkscrew to shame...


Glorious track

Also, Pflantzgarten at the Nordshcleife comes to mind
This guy was lucky...
http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

Edited by gm914, 19 July 2010 - 21:06.

[Mal9444]

Just curious. Saw a photo of Brands Hatch today and was reminded how much of a rollercoaster that circuit is in parts, so I was wondering what the tracks were with the steepest inclines and biggest drops and jumps and such are. I've got to think the Corkscrew at Laguna Seca is up there. Anyone recall anything similar, any parts of circuits where it feels like you're in a 100mp/h elevator going up or like a skydive driving down parts of a track? How about the biggest jumps and bumps on circuits? The onboard videos on Youtube of the old Long Beach circuit had a pretty big drop right after the pits. As far as bumps go, hard pressed to beat the San Jose CART track that went over train tracks .

I'm only thinking about road circuits, hillclimbs, tarmac rallies (Targa Florio, etc.) and street circuits here, not rallying or off-roading. Don't mean to use this board like a personal Wikianswers but Google turns up nothing, so let's reminisce about some crazy old tracks.

Cheers.

The Deer's Leap at Dundrod, where on the second 'jump', halfway down, the fastest cars would be - albeit it briefly - airborne.

[mscheeres]

Steilstrecke: http://www.pro-steil...ecke_gesamt.jpg

[Lights]

Also, Pflantzgarten at the Nordshcleife comes to mind
This guy was lucky...
http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

Yeah although his little off-road trip was before it.

The view at 1:00 in that video of the Pflanzgarten is the steepest bit on the current Nordschleife I think, and the trickiest part of the track (in a fast car).

Edited by Lights, 19 July 2010 - 21:12.

[David Shaw]

Was the Steilstrecke ever used for racing?

As far as jumps go, there is also the railway crossing on the old Longford track. There is a great and famous photo of Stan Jones clear of the deck in his 250F Maserati.

[arttidesco]

Fox Hole down and back up to Ardenau Forest, Kallenhard down Ardenhauer Bridge Berg Werk through Karussel to Hohe Acht, nice jump at Pflanzgarten, but seriously the whole Nurburgring Nordschleife is one crazy up and down ride through 14 miles of blind corners as Derek Bell describes in his epic 6 min 15 second lap n a Porsche 956.

Pikes peak at 11 mile probably counts as the craziest and longest single uphill ride. Not been to that one yet despite Walter Rorhls best efforts to entice me with this clip. Afraid it's in German Walter describes this drive as the peak of what was achievable with a group B rally car, the action starts around 1m 10 secs in.

[mscheeres]

Was the Steilstrecke ever used for racing?

As far as jumps go, there is also the railway crossing on the old Longford track. There is a great and famous photo of Stan Jones clear of the deck in his 250F Maserati.

Spa 84 Hours, I believe. Used the Combined + steilstrecke track.

[scheivlak]

Earlier thread:

http://forums.autosp...amp;hl=steepest

Edited by scheivlak, 19 July 2010 - 21:54.

[Bloggsworth]

Also, Pflantzgarten at the Nordshcleife comes to mind
This guy was lucky...
http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

Luck had little to do with it, he knew exactly where he was and which way he was facing, popped it into gear and carried on.

[gm914]

Quite true.

Speaking of skill, here's a great Bathurst lap excerpt. The driver is well in charge of his Lotus.
Enjoy the gradients, esp after 1:40!

Edited by gm914, 19 July 2010 - 22:51.

[Ray Bell]

They don't really show on there... never do on any footage...

You have to walk the track at Bathurst to appreciate the gradients, of which the uphill out of the Cutting is the steepest.

Every bit as steep, probably steeper, was the first corner on the stillborn Amaroo Park circuit. It dropped suddenly right down into a gully so that the second straight was along the floor of that gully.

Steep also was the drop into town at Lobethal.

[seldo]

They don't really show on there... never do on any footage...

You have to walk the track at Bathurst to appreciate the gradients, of which the uphill out of the Cutting is the steepest.

Every bit as steep, probably steeper, was the first corner on the stillborn Amaroo Park circuit. It dropped suddenly right down into a gully so that the second straight was along the floor of that gully.

Steep also was the drop into town at Lobethal.

I was quite surprised at Bathurst in 1970. Having already competed there half a dozen times previously, and having heard all the hype and post-race yarns about various cars being air-borne over the hump in the straight, I'd always considered them to be just fishermen's tales.
That was until I was almost side-by-side with another similar car (XU1) flat-out over the hump and noticed that his wheels were about 30cm off the ground. Same car, same speed, so I guess I was too - but you couldn't really tell from inside the car apart from a quick surge in engine revs.
I've never ceased to amaze at the Mt Panorama circuit's steepness when driven around at sensible road-speed. It's quite an eye-opener.

[Gary Davies]

The "dipper" at Mt. Panorama, Bathurst is (literally) breathtaking!

Ditto that. Some years ago I ran around the track while I was in residence at the nearby Mitchell College. The Dipper, on foot, was.... just incredible. It was all I could do to avoid running out of control and falling. The television pictures do it no justice.

[wagons46]

In 1979 I mounted a 8mm movie camera in an A9X during Bathurst practice BUT faced it out the rear hatch window. This 3 minute plus extravaganza clearly shows the rise and fall as in real life far different to out the front in racing direction.

[TonyK]

They don't really show on there... never do on any footage...

You have to walk the track at Bathurst to appreciate the gradients, of which the uphill out of the Cutting is the steepest.

Every bit as steep, probably steeper, was the first corner on the stillborn Amaroo Park circuit. It dropped suddenly right down into a gully so that the second straight was along the floor of that gully.

Steep also was the drop into town at Lobethal.

The drop into Forrest's Elbow at Bathurst is also quite reasonable. And Wanneroo has a steep downhill into the final turn, as did Oran Park after the dogleg.

I take it that the stillborn Amaroo Park circuit you refer to is the graded (but not surfaced) track starting at the former Dirt Circuit on the plateau and dropping down into the Motocross track in the gully. I've seen a 'mud' map of that circuit, but not an official map. Did an official survey ever exist?

[Marc Sproule]

I don't know what the elevation change is overall, but at Laguna Seca it is a serious difference from the front straight to the top of the hill at the corkscrew. Anyone who has walked up there from the paddock can attest to that.

It was best before they added the infield part to the circuit. In a Champ Car it was flat out from old Turn 9 until old 4, which was still very, very fast and uphill. The gradient from there to the corkscrew was pretty steep. And from the corkscrew back to the front side is a very impressive drop too.

I was fortunate enough to ride around there in late '81 with Paul Newman as my chauffeur in the first March 82G GTP car. By then I had nearly 25 years experience as an observer there. That ride changed my perspective dramatically.

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by TonyK
.....I take it that the stillborn Amaroo Park circuit you refer to is the graded (but not surfaced) track starting at the former Dirt Circuit on the plateau and dropping down into the Motocross track in the gully. I've seen a 'mud' map of that circuit, but not an official map. Did an official survey ever exist?

Yes, that's the place... and the climb next to the hillclimb must have been steep-ish too...

There is a good map somewhere, but I simply can't find it. It was published in either the Sydney Morning Herald or the Sun-Herald some time in either December 1963 or January 1964, in a motorsports column. It was also probably in Sports Car World and undoubtedly in other publications.

[zakeriath]

The mine shaft at Kyalami

[Catalina Park]

Having been to Laguna Seca and Bathurst I would guess that Bathurst is about twice the height.

The dipper at Bathurst is just another corner in a series of swerves, but what a corner! You come over a fast crest at Skyline into The Esses and if you muck up too much you have The Dipper waiting to bite you!
It is great when you get the whole series of corners right, but when you get it wrong...

[kayemod]

I've done Spa's Eau Rouge on foot, that's quite steep enough for me, down to 2nd in a road car unless you get a bit of a run at it. This must be the steepest climb on the current F1 circuits, but what's the most precipitous downhill bit on an F1 track?

[Rob Semmeling]

Slightly off-topic, but perhaps interesting:

Circuit / lenght in kilometres / elevation change in metres:

Nürburgring Nordschleife / 20.8 / 300
Clermont-Ferrand (old) / 8.055 / 179
Bathurst / 6.213 / 174
Spa-Francorchamps (old) / 14.1 / 170
Nürburgring Südschleife / 7.747 / circa 145
Solitude / 11.500 / circa 123
Spa-Francorchamps / 7.004 / 104
Brno / 5.403 / 73.75
Nürburgring Grand Prix circuit / 5.148 / 55
Laguna Seca / 3.602 / 55
Road America / 6.514 / circa 48-55
Suzuka / 5.807 / 40
Fuji / 4.469 / 38
Bahrain / 5.441 / 18
Shanghai Circuit / 5.451 / 6.74

[Michael Ferner]

Shanghai Circuit / 5.451 / 6.74

Now, that must make for some intersting dips and climbs!

[Tim Murray]

Bahrain looks positively mountainous by comparison.

[Ray Bell]

Bathurst would be something like:

6.28kms / 200m

[arttidesco]

Slightly off-topic, but perhaps interesting:

Circuit / lenght in kilometres / elevation change in metres:

Nürburgring Nordschleife / 20.8 / 300
Clermont-Ferrand (old) / 8.055 / 179
Bathurst / 6.213 / 174
Spa-Francorchamps (old) / 14.1 / 170
Nürburgring Südschleife / 7.747 / circa 145
Solitude / 11.500 / circa 123
Spa-Francorchamps / 7.004 / 104
Brno / 5.403 / 73.75
Nürburgring Grand Prix circuit / 5.148 / 55
Laguna Seca / 3.602 / 55
Road America / 6.514 / circa 48-55
Suzuka / 5.807 / 40
Fuji / 4.469 / 38
Bahrain / 5.441 / 18
Shanghai Circuit / 5.451 / 6.74

Top Stats

Pikes Peak approx 20.1 kms / 1524 m tarmac and dirt surface !

[kayemod]

Shanghai Circuit / 5.451 / 6.74

That's probably just the number of corners multiplied by the height of the kerbs.

[oldtransamdriver]

Fast downhillers - turn 2 at Mosport and turn 1 at St. Jovite (Mt. Tremblant). Uphill - the esses at Watkins Glen.

Robert Barg

Edited by oldtransamdriver, 20 July 2010 - 15:39.

[Rob Semmeling]

Bathurst would be something like:

6.28kms / 200m

The figures I posted are as per the official website:

http://www.mount-pan...s/circuit-facts

[alansart]

The mountain at Cadwell Park is a little steep, but short.



Plonker driving: Me
Photo: ©Brendan McFarlane

[oldtransamdriver]

Another fast downhiller - the righthander leading to the front straight at Lime Rock. The "Deer's Leap" hump on the Westwood backstraight could get you airborne in a fast car.

Robert Barg

[Marc Sproule]

Road Atlanta before it was emasculated had plenty of serious ups and downs.

[-Jesse-]

Meadowdale had quite good ones too and the downhill on the main straight was fast

5.26 km / ~40 m

Edited by -Jesse-, 21 July 2010 - 04:23.

[raceannouncer2003]

The "Deer's Leap" hump on the Westwood backstraight could get you airborne in a fast car.

]

Tom Johnston photo.

Vince H.

[David Shaw]

When I have the chance to get to Mt. Panorama I love to walk the track at night, and when I get to the first dip on Conrod straight, look over my left shoulder up into the sky at the lights at Skyline.

[David Shaw]

The only photo that I have seen that gives you an idea of the steep descent from the top of Mt. Panorama
http://forums.autosp...a...t&p=3007397

[Frank S]

In these two photos there is a little hint of the elevation changes in Willow Springs (International) Raceway:
Willow P. 1

[Marc Sproule]

Snaps from the downhill side of Deer's Leap at Westwood....

http://www.flickr.co...57623186773769/

http://www.flickr.co...57623186773769/

http://www.flickr.co...57623186773769/

http://www.flickr.co...57623186773769/

I think I have other snaps from different parts of Westwood that show it was all pretty much up and down.

This is from Atlantic Motorsport Park, a decent downhill first turn...

http://www.flickr.co...57623186773769/

http://www.flickr.co...57623186773769/

Even though the last corner, wasn't a big climb uphill, Gilles made it interesting....

http://www.flickr.co...57623186773769/

Before it was changed Lime Rock had some decent elevation changes. I can't remember what this particular part of the back side of the circuit was called but it provided some nice imagery....

http://www.flickr.co...57623186773769/

The last corner at Road Atlanta was pretty impressive. Haven't been there in many years so I can't attest to what it's like presently.

http://www.flickr.co...57623186773769/

The original first turn/downhill section at Long Beach was pretty entertaining at times....

http://www.flickr.co...57623186790747/

http://www.flickr.co...57623186790747/

http://www.flickr.co...57623186790747/

http://www.flickr.co...57623186790747/

http://www.flickr.co...57623186790747/

Some downhill visuals at Laguna Seca. Eventually there will be more from the corkscrew.....in the meantime....

http://www.flickr.co...57623386566688/

http://www.flickr.co...57623386566688/

http://www.flickr.co...57623386566688/

http://www.flickr.co...57623386566688/

http://www.flickr.co...57623386566688/

http://www.flickr.co...57623386566688/

http://www.flickr.co...57623386566688/

http://www.flickr.co...57623386566688/

http://www.flickr.co...57623386566688/

http://www.flickr.co...57623386566688/

http://www.flickr.co...57623386566688/

http://www.flickr.co...57623386566688/

http://www.flickr.co...57623386566688/

http://www.flickr.co...57623386566688/

http://www.flickr.co...57623386566688/

http://www.flickr.co...57623386566688/

http://www.flickr.co...57623386566688/

http://www.flickr.co...57623386566688/

http://www.flickr.co...57623386566688/

http://www.flickr.co...57623386566688/

[SenhorBeef]

I always thought that the downhill plunge towards Noveau Monde and the subsequent climb back up at Rouen les Essarts was fantastic. Not as steep as many mentioned but wonderful nethertheless.

Another example.. perhaps this doesn't really fit in the Nostalgia Forum but anyway... I was driving around the new circuit at Portimão a few weeks ago and there are some excellent hills there. Didn't have a chance to take any photos that do it justice but just to give an idea..

[raceannouncer2003]

Marion and I got together with John Cordts and his wife Linda Kerr Thursday. Four places he said you could get airborne were Mid-Ohio, Mont Tremblant, Mosport, and Road Atlanta. He talked about being beside Jackie Oliver (Autocoast) as Jackie became airborne at Mont Tremblant and flipped several times. John figured Jackie was a goner, but came around the next lap to see Jackie walking away...just hurt his finger.

Vince H.

Edited by raceannouncer2003, 23 July 2010 - 07:25.

[johnny yuma]

The most frightening parts of Mt Panorama are the entire run across the TOP of the mountain at very high speeds on the sweepers,followed by The Chase as second most dangerous area.
If you make it over Skyline and approach The Dipper,your speed by then is actually quite slow,although it is of course a tight and hugely super-elevated corner,then downhill from there
the quite steep but flowing tunnel run to Forest Elbow seems to rarely have accidents,let alone injuries.The long Conrod Straight pre-Caltex Chase must have been a worry on the last hump,but the
Chase,built to improve safety,has not stopped this from being a very dangerous place,as the approach gradient overall is not super steep,but is relentlessly downhill for a very long time.If you
get unstuck coming into the chase at 250 or 300 km/h,neither the gravel traps or the runoff area can guarantee safety.Cars multiple roll hitting the gravel side on,or run right on at Chase Corner
and cause havoc re-entering the course before the Bridge.

What I'd love to see on youtube is Bartlett's 100mph lap on the old circuit !

[Macca]

Nobody's mentioned the climb from Ste Devote to Beau Rivage at Monaco which anyone who's been there will tell you is a stiff walk.

Also from Knickerbrook up Clay Hill at Oulton Park is deceptively steep and doesn't come across on TV.

And from Lukey Heights into the hairpin at Phillip Island is about as steep as it gets.

Paul M

Edited by Macca, 30 July 2010 - 10:01.

[Lee Nicolle]

Going up the hill to Lukey Heights at PI is a moderate climb all the way from Siberia. The last bit gets steeper. The drop to MG is a decent drop though nothing like Bathurst.

[ggnagy]

No love for Virginia International Raceway? Its a 100 drop from the top of Roller Coaster into Hog Pen, and the overall elevation difference is about the same as Road America/Laguna Seca.

[gm914]

What I'd love to see on youtube is Bartlett's 100mph lap on the old circuit !

Me too, but no luck...
Found the famous clip of him & the "Channel 6" Camaro, though.
Enjoy!

[ZOOOM]

I finally have a movie of the BIG dip on the main straight at the old Meadowdale circuit. These were taken back in the 60's. About half way through you get to see the main straight.
Also shown very well, is the infamous monza wall the circuit had.
ENJOY!
http://www.youtube.c...feature=related


ZOOOM

[simonlewisbooks]

The opening post does say "tarmac rallies" so I nominate Longcross near Chobham where the tarmac surfaced 'tank testing' inclines were often used on special stages.
The inclines were 1 in 3 and 1 in 4 , I seem to recall, and you could get a great deal of 'air' if you were daft enough...
If you did this with enough enthusiasm the resulting flat landing was likely to push the front struts up through the bonnet so it wasn't an ideal approach to take!
They were very popular viewing points, as you can imagine

The same stages also included the low-banked oval track that's been so popular with motoring magazines for photo shoots and the 'snake' with it's fairly impressive climbs and drops, which has been used in many feature films including the fairly recent CHILDREN OF MEN and Francois Truffaut's FARENHEIT 451 back in the 60s....as well as GEORGE AND MILDRED in the 80s....

Last I heard the place was being sold off and 'developed' does anyone have an update on this?

[wolf sun]

Can we compile a list of (places on) circuits past and present, where cars (used to) get airborne?
(Couldn't find that elsewhere on TNF)

• Nordschleife (before 1970)
  Flugplatz
  Breidscheid (not sure about the exact location, either on the bridge or shortly afterwards)
  Kesselchen
  Brünnchen
  Pflanzgarten
  shortly before Schwalbenschwanz (?)
  I think of these only Flugplatz and Pflanzgarten are jumps today
  
• Montlhéry
  Couard? Where exactly was this located?
  
• Montjuich
  Before the first sharp lefthander
  
• Cadwell Park
  The Mountain
  
• Brooklands
  On Member's Banking, where the banking crossed the River Wey
  
• Donington Park (Prewar)
  Was this before or after the hairpin?

I'm sure there are lots more, any corrections and additions are most welcome!

[Ray Bell]

Lobethal... about four times per lap...

Can't nominate corners, however. And all but one was at a corner, I think.

[Tim Murray]

Donington Park (Prewar)
Was this before or after the hairpin?

After the hairpin - the cars came down the hill, around the hairpin, then got airborne as they went back over the hill before passing the pits and turning left into Redgate