26 replies to this topic

[Dunc]

Reading Jackie Stewart's autobiography, he mentions this track quite a few times. Was the racing there any good?

With the talk of the USA getting a second race in the future, could this track be used as the venue?

[RA Historian]

Reading Jackie Stewart's autobiography, he mentions this track quite a few times. Was the racing there any good? 1

With the talk of the USA getting a second race in the future, could this track be used as the venue?2

1- Yes, especially after the track was extended in 1971. Was, and still is, one of the best US tracks. Glorious history, from being the site of the first real US sports car race in 1948 through being the home of the USGP 1961-1980 and the World Championship of Makes Six Hours for many years in the '60s and '70s. Virtually every major series has raced there; CART, IRL, Can Am, USRRC, Trans Am, F-5000, IMSA Camel GT, non-championship Intl F-Libre 1958-60, SCCA Nationals pre-1965 when they were really big events (pre-Runoffs format), and so on.

2- getting a second race? Let's try to get a first race going before we talk about a second! But in answer to your question, no, for many reasons. Money of course, as the track is not up to Intl standards. let alone F-1 requirements. The track is owned by ISC, which is a France/nascar entity, and I am quite sure they would not be interested in anything that does not paper their pockets. They would not be interested, I am sure, in shelling out whatever exorbitant fee Mr. Ecclestone would demand. Plus it is in the middle of nowhere, without the five star hotels BCE and his people demand.

Tom

Edited by RA Historian, 11 August 2010 - 21:09.

[seccotine]

A very spectacular circuit.
Just look at that great race :


Infamous track though. It is there that my hero François Cevert got killed on October 6, 1973. A year later exactly, Helmut Koinigg died there in his Surtees.

[arttidesco]

Watkins Glen is a superb track shame pretty much the only racing I ever see from it these days seems to be NASCAR (Sundays race between JPM and Marcose Ambrose was fabulous as ever) to this foreigner Watkins Glen is the spiritual home of the USGP. It's a shame France and Ecclestone cannot come to some kind of accommodation, to 'paper their pockets'.

[Ray Bell]

If you go back to Keir's posts from the early days of TNF you will find a lot of reminiscing about the US GP at the Glen...

And look for Mike Argetsinger's posts about it too.

[Keir]

Like most things F1, Watkins Glen is too far removed from the bells and whistles that Bernie and company demand. Watkins in the past, depended on a good sized gate to pay the bills. It would take 200,000 plus just to make ends meet - maybe. As for the track itself, very few circuits could compare to it in it's heyday.

As I have said, Watkins best days remain in the past, but the IRL races that I have attended were great fun. Thanks again, Ray.

[jj2728]

Simply put, a great great track. I have more than a few fond memories from The Glen.

[Mark Godfrey]

With the talk of the USA getting a second race in the future, could this track be used as the venue?

Is Austin Texas the first? http://www.formula1....10/5/10824.html

[RA Historian]

Is Austin Texas the first? http://www.formula1....10/5/10824.html

Yes, if it happens.

[ZOOOM]

Austin Texas is just more smoke bernie (small b) blows up the collective arse of the united states.
bernie has worked himself into a corner. he has just about run out of sheikdoms to pilfer. Third world countries run by kings are the only venues left that can afford bernie & company.

Tony George already had one of the most profitable venues in the world when bernie offered the USGP to him. It only cost the Hullman George family over a hundred million to convert an already existing facility to meet bernie's demands. Look what it got Tony....
Austin Texas will fail because it will not be backed up by the public coffers of the US government. And the town sure can't afford bernie's demands on their own. bernie has set them up to fail so he can claim that he OFFERED it to the USA but the USA can't afford it...
Mark my words.... Austin Texas, US GP, will never happen.
Wait 'til the smoke clears...

ZOOOM

Edited by ZOOOM, 12 August 2010 - 01:26.

[stevewf1]

Something I think I remember reading...

When NASCAR first went to Watkins Glen in the mid 80s the race drew the biggest crowd in the Glen's history. True? Not true?

[Keir]

Mario Andretti's championship year 1978. The place was so packed, you couldn't move.

[RA Historian]

Austin Texas will fail because it will not be backed up by the public coffers of the US government.

But the State of Texas is, through various agencies and tourism funds, contributing some $25 million per year. BCE's fee is covered.

I will admit to being skeptical, but as time goes by it is beginning to look more realistic. Some real heavy hitters have signed on as investors; it appears that the money is there. At this time the main limiting factor may be the actual construction of the track.

Yes, at first I thought that this was just so much smoke too, but now I am beginning to think that it just may happen.

Tom

[watkins]

Something I think I remember reading...

When NASCAR first went to Watkins Glen in the mid 80s the race drew the biggest crowd in the Glen's history. True? Not true?

The largest crowd in the Glen's history didn't happen during a race weekend...It occurred July 28, 1973 during the rock concert "Summer Jam" that featured three bands: The Grateful Dead, The Band and The Allman Brothers Band. 600,000 people attended. Here's a link from the NY Daily News at the time:
http://www.nydailyne...te_at_Glen.html

As for the number of people attending NASCAR race weekends at Watkins...I was there for the NASCAR event in 1986 (and many since then) and attended most of the USGP's from 1962 till 1980. There were, in my opinion (and many others that were there at the time), far more people at the Glen during the Grand Prix weekends of the the late 1960's and 1970's than at any NASCAR weekend ever held there. NASCAR had a habit, at one time, of counting fans coming through the gates on Friday, Saturday and Sunday and adding each day's count for a grand total in attendance.

A last minute edit:
I just found the following article about NASCAR at Watkins Glen including a history of the track since reopening in 1984.
http://www.nascar.co...glen/index.html

A direct quote from the above piece concerning numbers in attendance from the 1986 Watkins Glen NASCAR race:
"The actual crowd count for the race won by Richmond was 88,068."

Edited by watkins, 13 August 2010 - 02:53.

[stevewf1]

Thanks! Count me wrong...

[scags]

It's a great track, in a beautiful part of NY state, but it is in the middle of no- where.

[arttidesco]

It's a great track, but it is in the middle of no- where.

Like most other tracks then

Must be something to do with noise coming from those infernal combustion engines

[oldtransamdriver]

Something I think I remember reading...

When NASCAR first went to Watkins Glen in the mid 80s the race drew the biggest crowd in the Glen's history. True? Not true?

NASCAR first showed up at the Glen I think in 63 - I was there spectating and I remember seeing Jr. ending up in the weeds just after the back straight. Not sure if that was a one time thing in the sixties.

Robert Barg

[dbltop]

I think they must have been there at least once before that. Buddy Baker has said that his father, Buck, won the first NASCAR race there, but no year was mentioned.

[dbltop]

I just checked the official Watkins Glen web site and they have Buck Baker winning in 1957. Billy Wade in 1964 and Marvin Panch in 1965.

[Longtimefan]

I hate the Glen.. mainly for Oct 6th 1973

[LittleChris]

It's a great track, in a beautiful part of NY state, but it is in the middle of no- where.

Riverside was once in the middle of nowhere but is now in the middle of a shopping mall as is Langhorn. Unlikely to happen to the Glen (hopefully )

[Keir]

I hate the Glen.. mainly for Oct 6th 1973

Watkins Glen had nothing to do with that. Cevert made a mistake - it happens. Jackie Stewart and Chris Amon (who drove an updated 005) found the Tyrrell very difficult to drive that weekend. Cevert was really in the moment and pushing like hell. Many people still hold the armco barrier at fault, but at the time, it was state of the art. The esses was just a bad place to lose a race car.

[Jim Thurman]

Riverside was once in the middle of nowhere but is now in the middle of a shopping mall as is Langhorn. Unlikely to happen to the Glen (hopefully )

Well, one end of what was Riverside International Raceway is covered by the mall. Turn 6 - which is almost literally in the middle of the mall - and turns 4, 5 and 8 and the connecting parts fall in mall property (turn 7 lies beyond the mall), but the rest of it is other assorted commercial development, along with a few homes (very few) across part of the backstretch.

http://www.tamsoldra.....rside Overlay

[Cotchin]

Watkins Glen had nothing to do with that. Cevert made a mistake - it happens. Jackie Stewart and Chris Amon (who drove an updated 005) found the Tyrrell very difficult to drive that weekend. Cevert was really in the moment and pushing like hell. Many people still hold the armco barrier at fault, but at the time, it was state of the art. The esses was just a bad place to lose a race car.

I've only seen footage of the aftermath and photos from the time but I had always assumed it was some sort of mechanical failure. Reason being I would have thought the corners would be taken flat out in cars of that era. Has mechanical failure been ruled out?

[WGD706]

Is Austin Texas the first? http://www.formula1....10/5/10824.html

Austin at Very High Speed
The who, what, where, when, and why of Formula One racing
http://www.austinchr.....d=oid:1050799
The sound of a Formula One car is like hornets – if the hornets were flying at 225 miles per hour. Yet the May 25 announcement that Austin will become the new U.S. home to the world's top motor sport was more like the sound of a juggernaut bearing down at full speed. To hit the proposed June 2012 deadline requires the project team, the city of Austin, the state, and the community to rapidly engage one of the most complicated engineering projects Travis County has ever seen. The completed Formula One project would also define Austin as a major international sporting center. As Tavo Hellmund, the man behind the successful bid, puts it: "There are four global sporting events: the World Cup, Olympics, the World Games, and Formula One. It doesn't matter whether you like those sports or not; that's a fact."

This is a very good article.

Also...............Central Texans will finally find out next week where the much anticipated Formula 1 racetrack will be built.

On Wednesday, Austin Formula 1 promoter Tavo Hellmund told ESPN that, contrary to previous reports, the racetrack will be built somewhere within 10 miles east and north of Downtown Austin and about 10 miles from Austin-Bergstrom International Airport.

If that is the case, it could put Formula 1 just outside of the Manor area in Travis County, near the Bird’s Nest Airport off of State Highway 130 and Gregg Manor Road.

“If that Formula 1 track comes in, it'd be a great opportunity for us," said Andrew Perry, with Austin Executive Airport, known presently as the Bird’s Nest Airport.

The Bird's Nest Airport was built in 1968. Once a small airport where people trained in aviation and in parachuting, it is now undergoing a major expansion project which could triple its size and allow the airport to grow from its present seven single engine airplanes to around 300 general aviation aircraft.

“We have a 1,500 foot runway now, but we'll open up with over a 6,000 runway in the first quarter of 2011,” added Perry.

KVUE has learned that Austin Formula 1 promoters and investors are heading to the Capitol City where they are expected to make a big announcement about the track’s whereabouts early next week.
http://www.kvue.com/...r-99147404.html

[WGD706]

Austin Texas is just more smoke bernie (small b) blows up the collective arse of the united states.
Austin Texas will fail because it will not be backed up by the public coffers of the US government. And the town sure can't afford bernie's demands on their own. bernie has set them up to fail so he can claim that he OFFERED it to the USA but the USA can't afford it...
Mark my words.... Austin Texas, US GP, will never happen.
Wait 'til the smoke clears...

ZOOOM

ELROY — This ain't Monaco.

F1 racing out here? Are you kidding? Maybe an F1 tornado.

As you drive into this tiny, rural town 15 miles southeast of downtown Austin, you won't see any zippy, low-slung foreign sports cars. Instead, you pass by five aging pickups lounging in a field, waiting for buyers; a couple of fireworks stands; cows; and a house with a sign out front advertising menudo.

So they're fixing to build an at least $200 million Formula One racetrack nearby, huh? Some folks here might think Formula One comes in a baby bottle.

"Oh no, I have no idea. I have never been in the race track," said Rick Dhukka, owner of the Elroy Country Corner convenience store, who knows little about the sport. "They have those in another state, a nice track. But they have a lot of fans come and they have a national championship or something."

Dhukka is hoping Formula One comes to Elroy so he can make more money in his store and sell, among other things, more ball caps. He carries an impressive line of gimme hats. They're strung in a cluster near the ceiling. One of Dhukka's hats says "Shut up and Fish." A Formula One fan from Belgium might wear that hat while sipping on his petite sirah, right?

This is not to say Elroy folks don't appreciate fast cars. Remember that the Longhorn Speedway, a small good ol' boy stock-car track, used to be down the road where FM 812, which runs through Elroy, meets U.S. 183 a few miles to the west.

"What will this baby do?" I asked a gal named Haellee. She was filling up her old, white Honda with gas at Dhukka's convenience store. Green plastic beads hang from the rearview mirror, and the right front tire is missing a hubcap.

"I've only got it up to about 90, but I had a Ford Escort I got up to 130," Haellee said. "I guess it was messed with under the hood. I bought it like that."

She knows about Dale Earnhardt. "Sure do," she said. But F1 racing is a mystery to her. "I don't usually watch a lot of TV," she explained.

You couldn't find a more unlikely place on the planet for an F1 crowd if you tried. And now, the talk is that two years from now the Formula One circuit and its European drivers might be racing in what today is a large field fit for fire ants north of Elroy's downtown. If you can call it a downtown.

Urban Elroy consists of the convenience store, Ray's Used Tires and Ray's Super Service; the Mexico General Store with piñatas hanging from the ceiling and a pile of hay bales out front; a small volunteer-run library, which carries no books about Formula One; and Wild Bubba's Wild Game Grill, a colorful restaurant that advertises "fried coyote tail" on the mobile sign out front.

"They're wieners rolled up in a flour tortilla and deep fried," said Wyman Gilliam, the owner. He has Elroy roots. His family has had a farm down the road since the '60s.

Gilliam, who carries a variety of wild game burgers made out of the actual animals (antelope, bear and yak among them), plans to gear up for Formula One. "I've made it known I sure would like to have a connection and become a vendor," he said.

I can hear it now: "Get your yak on a stick."

Gilliam is planning ahead for the sophisticated F1 crowd.

"Guess I better clean the bathrooms," he quipped. He's designing a "Euro-Tex Burger," with Gruyere cheese, portobello mushrooms and romaine lettuce.

"Too fancy for Elroy," he said. "But I know with the international crowd, we'll get a few Europeans in here. Yeah, I think I'll get a beer permit. Even sell Dom Perignon for the victors."

And he intends to keep distributing his bumper stickers that ask, "Where the hell is Elroy, Texas?" That's a darned good question.
http://www.statesman...cTrk=RTR_504016