783 replies to this topic

[Ross Stonefeld]

Sponsors usually want you to do promo work for them though. So a lads mag wanting you to pose seems like the point of the sponsorship.

But given how expensive Indylights is, how unknown it and Emma are, and magazine budgets; this whole deal sounds suspicious.

[jjcale]

Its just wrong to have put her in that position... If they were upfront about it then you could argue its just business and you can say yes or no to an offer ... but to be so shady about it was an attempt to manipulate and that is the thing about the situation that I think was just wrong.  

 

Its tough to be a woman in some fields...

 

Hope no one asks me to prove that by reference to scientific data

Edited by jjcale, 02 January 2021 - 12:14.

[SophieB]

Sponsors usually want you to do promo work for them though. So a lads mag wanting you to pose seems like the point of the sponsorship.

But given how expensive Indylights is, how unknown it and Emma are, and magazine budgets; this whole deal sounds suspicious.

Jalopnik’s reading of it is the team were initially evasive about who the sponsors were.
 
”Kimiläinen was apparently told by the team that she would not need to bring any partners or sponsors to the seat, as that had already been taken care of. The team didn’t tell her up front which sponsor had been secured to pay for the 2010 season. 
Through the course of negotiations for the seat, it became clear that the team’s sponsor was a “high end men’s magazine” and her signing was dependent upon Kimiläinen posing topless for the magazine. The team had apparently negotiated with the magazine that she would pose in a bikini without so much as asking her opinion, but the magazine demanded skin.”

[proviz]

Without wishing to sound offensive it has to be said that Emma Kimiläinen has a knack for picking snippets of information to her own advantage. Neither is she totally averse to using a bit of female self exploitation, as proved in a book she wrote ostensibly for "female drivers". I read a few excerpts to some close female friends who found them sexist, racist and generally abhorring.

[Ross Stonefeld]

Jalopnik’s reading of it is the team were initially evasive about who the sponsors were.

”Kimiläinen was apparently told by the team that she would not need to bring any partners or sponsors to the seat, as that had already been taken care of. The team didn’t tell her up front which sponsor had been secured to pay for the 2010 season.
Through the course of negotiations for the seat, it became clear that the team’s sponsor was a “high end men’s magazine” and her signing was dependent upon Kimiläinen posing topless for the magazine. The team had apparently negotiated with the magazine that she would pose in a bikini without so much as asking her opinion, but the magazine demanded skin.”

Yeah I don't think they had a sponsor or were telling the mag they had a hot new prospect that would pose for the mag and it was basically a shoddy desperate attempt at a deal. Like just about every sponsorship sub-F1. There's a lot of time wasters and scammers and basically unprofessional people anytime there's money and 'glamour' involved. Look at all those fly-by-night bidders for F1 teams.

There's a lot more we'd need to know to put this all into a proper context. Maybe Jalopnik could try doing more work than rewriting the original article.

[jonpollak]

Yeah, they’re not gonna do that.
Jp

[Rumblestrip]

Are there any figures for the number of current female professional racing drivers?

 

(off topic, but I'd also be interested in the number of female team members in f1. Obviously Clare Williams stuck out in the very male-dominated management in the pit lane)

[Bleu]

 

(off topic, but I'd also be interested in the number of female team members in f1. Obviously Clare Williams stuck out in the very male-dominated management in the pit lane)

 

With Claire gone I think Ruth Buscombe might be the one in highest position around the teams, being Head of Race Strategy at Alfa Romeo.

 

Mercedes and Red Bull have had few female members on the podium when they have won races - probably around half dozen in total and not sure if everyone is still working in the teams.

[PayasYouRace]

I don’t think it’s just a question of ‘good on her’, it was a shocking and unacceptable choice that no driver should ever have to face in the first place. She lost her drive for shitty and unfair reasons.

 

To make same point that the jalopnik article makes, the equivalent would be telling Leclerc or Bottas etc that if they didn’t get their knob out on camera for the team sponsor, no drive for them. What messages would teams and sponsors be sending to women if female drivers just didn’t get to drive unless they are deemed hot and also prepared to strip for photos?

But we’re not talking about this being a normal occurrence for female drivers, especially in the Indycar scene. Danica Patrick did some bikini shoots for Sports Illustrated, but none of Sarah Fisher, Katherine Legge, Simona de Silvestro, Pippa Mann, Ana Beatriz, etc had to do revealing photo shoots to get their drives.

For the equivalent situation for Leclerc or Bottas, I’d also say good on them if they turned those “opportunities” down.

[shure]

The massive difference is that it wasn't a condition of Hamilton getting a drive, which appears to have been the case for Kimiläinen.

yeah I did make the point that the way they did it was underhand.  And certainly the topless request was too far.

 

The sponsor was apparently a lads mag, or something on those lines, at least what I'm getting from these pages.  So on the face of it them asking her to promote them in their mags in return for sponsoring her wasn't entirely unreasonable (although as already mentioned the topless request was too much).  The fault's with the team I reckon for trying to keep that from her and springing it at the last minute, only when pressed, which again I think is underhand.  The condition was clearly because she was a pay driver, which Hamilton isn't.  To put into perspective if KM said he wouldn't do any promo work for Jack & Jones then it's likely they wouldn't sponsor him, either, in which case he may not have had the Haas drive

Edited by shure, 02 January 2021 - 14:58.

[SophieB]

But we’re not talking about this being a normal occurrence for female drivers, especially in the Indycar scene. Danica Patrick did some bikini shoots for Sports Illustrated, but none of Sarah Fisher, Katherine Legge, Simona de Silvestro, Pippa Mann, Ana Beatriz, etc had to do revealing photo shoots to get their drives.

For the equivalent situation for Leclerc or Bottas, I’d also say good on them if they turned those “opportunities” down.

I’m not suggesting it’s normal. (Although the much smaller number of female drivers and fear of negative consequences for going public makes it all harder to quantify, as illustrated by how Kimiläinen seemingly felt not comfortable about talking about this at the time.) 

 

What I’m saying is that if it happened even one time it completely sucks if someone is given the choice of getting a job but only if they are prepared to take their clothes off for nude photos first. Especially as there are so few top level drives, turning it down might mean waving goodbye to a career in that field. I think we’re not really disagreeing, just taking different things away from it.

[Clatter]

With Claire gone I think Ruth Buscombe might be the one in highest position around the teams, being Head of Race Strategy at Alfa Romeo.

 

Mercedes and Red Bull have had few female members on the podium when they have won races - probably around half dozen in total and not sure if everyone is still working in the teams.

 

There does seem to be quite a few working in the garages. Can't remember which teams, but they do appear during the broadcasts working on the cars. It does seem that the numbers are growing.

[KWSN - DSM]

Why is the Magazine not named?

[William Hunt]

... the equivalent would be telling Leclerc or Bottas etc that if they didn’t get their knob out on camera for the team sponsor....

Lando Norris would do that for free!:

https://www.shownieu...stuurt-dickpics

Edited by William Hunt, 02 January 2021 - 23:56.

[FLB]

Maybe it was like a Nigerian Gold scam?

Just like there's no gold, there was never a drive available or a magazine funding it. The whole thing was just a con to get some nudie pics?

 

Well, Micheal Shank Racing had a sponsorship from a gentlemen's magazine in Grand-Am a couple of years before. And circa 2010, magazines like Maxim or Stuff were publishing pictures of bare-chested women with their arms/hands strategically placed. Maxim sponsored Graham Rahal in IndyCar in 2015. A name like that could certainly have been legit.

 

Indy Light full-season budgets were going for around 850,000 USD in 2010. Take whatever the mag was paying + associates... and voilà.

Edited by FLB, 03 January 2021 - 01:43.

[Ross Stonefeld]

There's no way the mag is paying even 500k for an Indylights sponsorship and some nude pics of an unknown sportsperson who looks like an average woman. And in 2010 just after a recession? Not exactly a flush era for expenditures. 

[jonpollak]

Both you and I know that’s right.
But... omgSTORY... let’s run with it
Jp

[statman]

regarding the magazine,

 

this doesn't sound like Maxim. All I remember from them are those bikini shoots with people like Jessica Alba, Kaley Cuoco etc. They had a brand to preserve, so this sort of negotiation to "do nude" doesn't seem likely.

 

So you venture into the playboy, penthouse type of stuff, but even they have a reputation.

 

To me this sounds like a b-list type of magazine, more trashy, including the way of negotiating.

[Disgrace]

Assuming the publication even existed.

[RA2]

Has there been a women race steward for a f1 race?

Edited by RA2, 04 January 2021 - 17:10.

[balage06]

Has there been a women race steward for a f1 race?

 

Yes

https://www.theguard...d-race-director

[RA2]

FOM needs give more coverage to those adjudicating the races.

Rather than having to listen to driver beeps, it would be more interesting to here stewards discussing incidents during the race and issuing a decision.

[ANF]

Tatiana Calderón had some nice things to say about the atmosphere at Drago Corse in her first Super Formula season: https://www.motorspo...-honda/4933052/

[RA2]

Power steering and better tyres than pirelli would have really helped her in comparison to F2

[Kalmake]

Maybe it should also be said that she scored no points and qualified bottom two every time. She's not as terribly off pace as in F2, but it's not like she has found great speed either.

[balage06]

The final stage of the FIA Girls on Track is happening right now at Fiorano, the four finalists are being evaluated by the FDA for a potential scholarship:

https://www.fia.com/...-driver-academy

[balage06]

So Juju Noda will race in the US this year, which probably makes her a less likely candidate for a late addition to the W Series grid (we'll see)

https://twitter.com/...288654770089984

[jonpollak]

Irina Sidorkova gets maiden fia F3 Asian seat with EvansGP.
https://twitter.com/...719616568094720
Jp

[balage06]

ICYMI: Maya Weug won the 'FIA Girls on Track', she'll become an FDA member and will race in F4

https://formulascout...d-f4-seat/74307 

 

[Ivanhoe]

Ferrari sign first female driver to academy.

https://www.gpblog.c...er-academy.html

[Stephane]

FIA Academy by FDA 

[Requiem84]

Part of the Ferrari / FIA NDA agreement? 

 

But in any case good to see Women drivers getting signed in talent programs! Time for F1 to work towards it's first competitive female driver!

[Stephane]

Sadly this is still a parrallel path

[BRG]

Part of the Ferrari / FIA NDA agreement? 

 

But in any case good to see Women drivers getting signed in talent programs! Time for F1 to work towards it's first second competitive female driver!

If scoring WC points means you are competitive, then F1 has already had one.

 

A lot of this posturing & virtue signalling over female drivers is rather sad.  In many ways, the current era is just trying to recover back to where it used to be, when women competed on equal terms in many areas of the sport.

 

As for 'Girls On Track', couldn't they think of a less patronising title?  'Little Fluffy Princesses On Track' for instance.