101 replies to this topic

[man]

Would be nice to create a simple list of the incidents he has been involved in which were due to perceived unsporting driving on his part. I will add to the list if you come up with more. Feel free to add to the list and discuss the incidents in question i.e. Was it dirty driving on M Schumacher's part, racing incident or the fault of the other driver. Please do NOT bring up other drivers here unless you believe they were victims of dirty driving by M Schumacher. Please try to keep the discussion specific to incidents M Schumacher was involved in, not dirty driving or M Schumacher in general.


Dirty driving by M Schumacher in F1

1991

1992

1993

1994
Australian Grand Prix

1995

1996

1997
European Grand Prix

1998
Canadian Grand Prix

1999

2000
Belgian Grand Prix

2001
European Grand Prix http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

2002
Brazilian Grand Prix http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

2003
British Grand Prix http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

2004

2005
Australian Grand Prix (from 3 min 27sec)

2006
Monaco Grand Prix
Hungarian Grand Prix
2010
Canadian Grand Prix
Hungarian Grand Prix

Edited by man, 22 August 2010 - 20:25.

[Watkins74]

I don't like all this negative energy. What about your next thread being something like "best overtakes" or something like that?

[ivand911]

I would say one thing, in 1994 the best driver won. Simple.

[scheivlak]

Have a look at http://www.autosport...ndex.html/id/81
A "Schumi special" of this site compiled after he announced his retirement in 2006.

http://www.autosport...icle.php/id/754 focuses on the low points (including the "at least debatable" moments).

[man]

So do you all agree with me that those 7 incidents were examples of dirty driving from M Schumacher?

[Buttoneer]

Posts deleted. Please do not discuss other posters, just the topic.

This thread may not be to your taste but then you may simply ignore it and move on. If any of the posts break one of the house rules, please report it. Do not respond to it.

[Hypnotise]

Would be nice to create a simple list of the incidents he has been involved in which were due to perceived unsporting driving on his part. I will add to the list if you come up with more. Feel free to add to the list and discuss the incidents in question i.e. Was it dirty driving on M Schumacher's part, racing incident or the fault of the other driver. Please do NOT bring up other drivers here unless you believe they were victims of dirty driving by M Schumacher. Please try to keep the discussion specific to incidents M Schumacher was involved in, not dirty driving or M Schumacher in general.


2000
Belgian Grand Prix
]

How come Belgium 2000 is dirty?,you have the right to move once and Schumacher did it at the exactly right time.

Edited by Hypnotise, 20 August 2010 - 21:58.

[Rob]

I would say one thing, in 1994 the best driver won. Simple.

So being the best driver makes it acceptable?

[frp]

How come Belgium 2000 is dirty?,you have the right to move once and Schumacher did it at the exactly right time.

The basic human sense preventing one from contemplating trying to put a fellow competitor onto the grass at 320 km/h has been universal since motor racing began. The 'only one move, unwritten understanding' nonsense started to creep in about ten years ago, initially to accommodate the then new phenomenon of the pole-sitter chopping across the field if he made a bad start.

[aditya-now]

Would be nice to create a simple list of the incidents he has been involved in which were due to perceived unsporting driving on his part. I will add to the list if you come up with more. Feel free to add to the list and discuss the incidents in question i.e. Was it dirty driving on M Schumacher's part, racing incident or the fault of the other driver. Please do NOT bring up other drivers here unless you believe they were victims of dirty driving by M Schumacher. Please try to keep the discussion specific to incidents M Schumacher was involved in, not dirty driving or M Schumacher in general.


Dirty driving by M Schumacher in F1

1991

1992

1993

1994
Australian Grand Prix

1995

1996

1997
European Grand Prix

1998
Canadian Grand Prix

1999

2000
Belgian Grand Prix

2001

2002

2003
British Grand Prix http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

2004

2005

2006
Monaco Grand Prix

2010
Hungarian Grand Prix

Australia 1994 - well calculated, brutally dirty driving. Look at Schumacher´s dark face afterwards, until he found out that his move worked.
Jerez 1997 - Michael´s move, while dirty and brutal, didn´t stick. Someone had more balls that day...
Canada 1998 - the epitome of dirty driving - why come out of the pits, cut across a double white line and go far to the right immediately to push HHF into the grass?
Spa 2000 - swerving all over the place to not allow Hakkinen´s pass, even trying to push Mika on the grass. While hard driving, he was in front and had the right to defend. Not dirty. Yet the swerving was not okay.
British GP 2003 - why not move across the whole track to push a Renault into the grass? Still, as above, you could call it hard racing, defending.
Monaco 2006 - premeditated and dirty. And being a bad liar afterwards to top it off.
Hungaroring 2010 - totally unnecessary and dirty.

In my book five clear examples of dirty driving.
And the swerving technique has been in Michael´s style throughout, even with Barrichello in 2010 - opening the door, then closing it. Intimidation, well calculated.

Edited by aditya-now, 21 August 2010 - 01:53.

[aditya-now]

I don't like all this negative energy. What about your next thread being something like "best overtakes" or something like that?

Who created this negative energy, Watkins? The OP or the driver in question? It is only fair to analyze the incidents one by one, as we did in the Senna/dirty driving thread. Both were no angels, but it seems Michael´s list is far worse.

man did a good job to start both threads, as normally there are all these fights between posters who was "dirtier", Senna or Schumi. By having two separate threads to analyse, we can do so relatively objectively.

to man.

Although such incidents are controversial, they are part of the sport and should not be looked away from, but given the full light of attention.

[ivand911]

So being the best driver makes it acceptable?

Yes, the best driver wining WDC is acceptable.

[domenico]

Dirty or not, that move on Hungary 2010 is move of miserable man.

[Henrytheeigth]

Dirty or not, that move on Hungary 2010 is move of miserable man.

I enjoyed it thoroughly! Rubens should of reviled in it! Beating the guy he was the towel boy for for years at Ferrari. Only if he was the number one driver at Ferrari would it have been poetic justice for him. I think it was a great highlight of the race and I wish people would just be happy they they saw it, happy that no incident took place, and move on...

[Jimisgod]

Yes, the best driver wining WDC is acceptable.

So that justifies cheating?

[Fortymark]

His 2010 Canadian gp involved as many dirty moves as some drivers did during a
full career

IIRC "f1 rogues" had a list of almost 200 offences for Schumacher in F1.
We also know that he was dirty prior to F1, in lower formulas and in sportscar racing.
Here is from Le mans in 1991,
Seriously, his been doing this crap behavior since he started racing and he´s still
doing it.

[orndorf]

Parking the car on the final turn at Monaco was a disgrace.

What sort of man does that?

[ivand911]

What sort of man does that?

The sort of man that hurry for a meeting in Rascasse restaurant?

Edited by ivand911, 21 August 2010 - 10:48.

[wewantourdarbyback]

I enjoyed it thoroughly! Rubens should of reviled in it! Beating the guy he was the towel boy for for years at Ferrari. Only if he was the number one driver at Ferrari would it have been poetic justice for him. I think it was a great highlight of the race and I wish people would just be happy they they saw it, happy that no incident took place, and move on...

Happy we saw it? Who on earth is happy to see one man attempt to kill another?

[olliek88]

Lol, this is too funny, senna haters hating him over in the other thread and now shuey haters getting in on the act, come on guys this is all too negative for my liking, why not start up a thread with the moments that show the most genius from each season over the last 25 years or something? just something more positive than this!

[man]

Of the 8 incidents highlighted...I would say they are all examples of dirty and demented driving from M Schumacher. There are other examples of him weaving on straights and crazy change of lines after a race starts too like in 2000 at the French GP I think it was. The amazing thing is is that he has not mellowed with his dangerous driving at all - he is as dangerous and arrogant now in 2010 as he was in 1994.

Edited by man, 21 August 2010 - 12:14.

[farsailor]

Of the 8 incidents highlighted...I would say they are all examples of dirty and demented driving from M Schumacher. There are other examples of him weaving on straights and crazy change of lines after a race starts too like in 2000 at the French GP I think it was. The amazing thing is is that he has not mellowed with his dangerous driving at all - he is as dangerous and arrogant now in 2010 as he was in 1994.

I think his arrogance is a bit the charm with him. I used to hate him for that, but now i think it's kind of entertaining. The way he responds to questions and his grine. So arrogant The man just can't change. With that said I still think his dirty moves are disgusting.

[Henrytheeigth]

Happy we saw it? Who on earth is happy to see one man attempt to kill another?

Gee talk about an 'overkilled' post lol. He wasn't trying to kill his former towel boy, he was just being aggressive in his defense. And I loved it! stop over reacting please....

[Gilles12]

By hook or by crook the man's a winner

Driver's like Rubens aren't - for a reason

Not for nothing Brabham was known as Black Jack...

[orndorf]

Its quite interesting to have all of schueys dirty moves in one thread.

No need to get butt hurt over it,you cant change the past but you can learn from it though it appears Schuey has learned nothing


Here he is using an illegal fuel rig.Not sure we can blame him for this one hehe.

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

Edited by orndorf, 21 August 2010 - 13:52.

[Hypnotise]

Its quite interesting to have all of schueys dirty moves in one thread.

No need to get butt hurt over it,you cant change the past but you can learn from it though it appears Schuey has learned nothing


Here he is using an illegal fuel rig.Not sure we can blame him for this one hehe.

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

In what way does Schumacher decide what the team does to their fuel rigs etc,to be more exact BENNETON cheat and not Schumacher!.

Edited by Hypnotise, 21 August 2010 - 14:17.

[Henrytheeigth]

And here we see the MS fans shine. I was only an MS fan from 1996-2006 lol. Yea lighten up folks, all in good fun till the race is run.

[aditya-now]

And here we see the MS fans shine. I was only an MS fan from 1996-2006 lol. Yea lighten up folks, all in good fun till the race is run.

So you were basically a Ferrari fan then.

[kismet]

This may be a useless contribution unworthy of this fine thread but I just want to say that I like that strategic "in F1" qualifier in the headline. It's like we're dealing with a huge cornucopia of driving infractions by M Schumacher, teeming with example after example of variously proportioned sins against rules, maybe some laws, etiquette and plain old common sense, from multiple motorsport disciplines and we've charitably decided to break the whole sorry mess into more controllable sections and are thus only concentrating on F1. For now.

[Gilles12]

This may be a useless contribution unworthy of this fine thread but I just want to say that I like that strategic "in F1" qualifier in the headline. It's like we're dealing with a huge cornucopia of driving infractions by M Schumacher, teeming with example after example of variously proportioned sins against rules, maybe some laws, etiquette and plain old common sense, from multiple motorsport disciplines and we've charitably decided to break the whole sorry mess into more controllable sections and are thus only concentrating on F1. For now.

Yes, beacuase then Man would have to include the chop on Hakkinen in F3

Just sayin'

[aditya-now]

This may be a useless contribution unworthy of this fine thread but I just want to say that I like that strategic "in F1" qualifier in the headline. It's like we're dealing with a huge cornucopia of driving infractions by M Schumacher, teeming with example after example of variously proportioned sins against rules, maybe some laws, etiquette and plain old common sense, from multiple motorsport disciplines and we've charitably decided to break the whole sorry mess into more controllable sections and are thus only concentrating on F1. For now.

Ask Mika Hakkinen about some infractions of MS in F3. Just for a starter.

[johnmhinds]

I'm not the biggest Schumacher fan myself, but for someone so famed for apparently being a dirty driver only having 8 bad moves separated by years of good driving makes his supposed bad reputation seem pretty weak.

You could probably make a similar list like this for all the multiple champions.
After all you don't win races by being the nice guy on track.

You could make a list 10x longer showing all the amazingly flawless drives he has done during his career.
Picking up on the few bad moves seems childish.

Edited by johnmhinds, 21 August 2010 - 15:33.

[Gilles12]

I'm not the biggest Schumacher fan myself, but for someone so famed for apparently being a dirty driver only having 8 bad moves separated by years of good driving makes his supposed bad reputation seem pretty weak.

You could probably make a similar list like this for all the multiple champions.
After all you don't win races by being the nice guy on track.

You could make a list 10x longer showing all the amazingly flawless drives he has done during his career.
Picking up on the few bad moves seems childish.

Don't you get it? Michael Schumacher is Satan

[man]

I'm not the biggest Schumacher fan myself, but for someone so famed for apparently being a dirty driver only having 8 bad moves separated by years of good driving makes his supposed bad reputation seem pretty weak.

You could probably make a similar list like this for all the multiple champions.
After all you don't win races by being the nice guy on track.

You could make a list 10x longer showing all the amazingly flawless drives he has done during his career.
Picking up on the few bad moves seems childish.

a) That is just 8 moves I can think of from the top of my head.

b) Please be my guess in finding 8 dirty moves from Nelson Piquet snr for example.

c) Mika Hakkinen was a nice guy, and was quite sucessful too.

d) Yes, you could make a list of 10 wonder drives by M Schumacher, just as you could create a thread for the development of the Tyrrell 019 or the different wheel sizes Williams used during the ground effect years. Or you could make a cheese and tomato sandwich What's your point?

Edited by man, 21 August 2010 - 15:49.

[Henrytheeigth]

So you were basically a Ferrari fan then.

Still am mate, though I wish Mark was winning in one.

[Fortymark]

I'm not the biggest Schumacher fan myself, but for someone so famed for apparently being a dirty driver only having 8 bad moves separated by years of good driving makes his supposed bad reputation seem pretty weak.

You could probably make a similar list like this for all the multiple champions.
After all you don't win races by being the nice guy on track.

You could make a list 10x longer showing all the amazingly flawless drives he has done during his career.
Picking up on the few bad moves seems childish.

I would rather say that as soon he´s involved in a battle for position, he´s more or less dirty
the majority of the time.
As I said earlier, he had like 5 incidents only in the Canadian GP in 2010 and he had a couple of
more in the British GP. Hungary we all knew about
You could say that he´s been dirty 8 times only in 2010...

[Ferrari_F1_fan_2001]

I would rather say that as soon he´s involved in a battle for position, he´s more or less dirty
the majority of the time.
As I said earlier, he had like 5 incidents only in the Canadian GP in 2010 and he had a couple of
more in the British GP. Hungary we all knew about
You could say that he´s been dirty 8 times only in 2010...

Fantastic. Schumacher for President of the WORLD!!!

[screamingV16]

Some of these may be debatable or though they are comparable to the Senna incidents being listed in the other thread. So in the interest of balance ...

1992 - Schumacher crashes into Senna twice trying to pass him -

1994 - Schumacher illegally and repeatedly passes pole sitter Hill on parade lap, presumably trying to out-psych Hill (Can#t find any video)

1998 - Schumacher barges Coulthard of the road -

1998 - Schumacher barges Wurz out the way -

2002 - Montoya appears to hve won the cormer, but schumacher drives into him - penalty for Montoya!

2002 - Montoya attempts pass down the straight, schumacher chops him and his wing - http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

2006 - Hungary - didn't Schumacher jump the chicane to keep ahead of De La Rosa then clash with him?

Edited by screamingV16, 21 August 2010 - 17:34.

[Vilenova]

I don't like all this negative energy. What about your next thread being something like "best overtakes" or something like that?

He could use the same vids too.

[aditya-now]

Still am mate, though I wish Mark was winning in one.

Would be amazing to see Mark in red, indeed!
Him and Fernando would be a hell of a team, as Mark wouldn´t buy the whole #1 #2 tactics - well, would Ferrari accept that?

There is a reason why Schumacher only ever accepted a certain type of driver, and with Nico he obviously thought it would be much easier.
Come 2011 we will see what tactics Schumacher will apply on Rosberg.

[aditya-now]

Some of these may be debatable or though they are comparable to the Senna incidents being listed in the other thread. So in the interest of balance ...

1992 - Schumacher crashes into Senna twice trying to pass him -

1994 - Schumacher illegally and repeatedly passes pole sitter Hill on parade lap, presumably trying to out-psych Hill (Can#t find any video)

1998 - Schumacher barges Coulthard of the road -

1998 - Schumacher barges Wurz out the way -

2002 - Montoya appears to hve won the cormer, but schumacher drives into him - penalty for Montoya!

2002 - Montoya attempts pass down the straight, schumacher chops him and his wing - http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

2006 - Hungary - didn't Schumacher jump the chicane to keep ahead of De La Rosa then clash with him?

Some further dirty moves by Schumi obviously. Thanks for the links. So you have a number of dirty moves more here, bringing up the total to 13 or something.
Probably, if someone would dig deeper, we would find even more.

MS is the godfather of dirty driving based on these lists. No wonder people don't want to deal with that amount of "negative energy" here.

[man]

Some further dirty moves by Schumi obviously. Thanks for the links. So you have a number of dirty moves more here, bringing up the total to 13 or something.
Probably, if someone would dig deeper, we would find even more.

MS is the godfather of dirty driving based on these lists. No wonder people don't want to deal with that amount of "negative energy" here.

Agreed. No driver has continuously driven as dirty over and over again as M Schumacher has. And it can be a bit alarming to watch some of the clips, so I can understand the general reluctance to view them or analyse them without trying to brush them under the carpet.

[hotstickyslick]

Some of these may be debatable or though they are comparable to the Senna incidents being listed in the other thread. So in the interest of balance ...

1992 - Schumacher crashes into Senna twice trying to pass him -

Come on, that was just clumsiness.

1994 - Schumacher illegally and repeatedly passes pole sitter Hill on parade lap, presumably trying to out-psych Hill (Can#t find any video)

I wouldn't call that dirty.

1998 - Schumacher barges Coulthard of the road -

Funny thing is, he held his line, Coulthard didn't.

1998 - Schumacher barges Wurz out the way -

You overtake at Lowe's hairpin, they'll always be close hard racing. Nothing dirty at all.

2002 - Montoya appears to hve won the cormer, but schumacher drives into him - penalty for Montoya!

He went wide, which was his fault. Dirty? No. Motoya's penalty made me rage though.

2002 - Montoya attempts pass down the straight, schumacher chops him and his wing - http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

Now that IS dirty.

2006 - Hungary - didn't Schumacher jump the chicane to keep ahead of De La Rosa then clash with him?

He did. Dirty.

Overall some very poor examples and few good ones.

[man]

2002 - Montoya attempts pass down the straight, schumacher chops him and his wing - http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

Oh yes, I remember that one. Indeed, a typical very dirty M Schumacher move.

[One]

The Real Question is if Schumacher had made asingle CLEAN move..

[MightyMoose]

The Real Question is if Schumacher had made asingle CLEAN move..

Raikkonen in Brazil 06 more than qualifies as a clean move ;-)

Surprised the original poster hasn't tried to claim Monaco 10 as a dirty move.....well he got penalised so it must have been more dirty tactics right? Honestly the trolling that's going on here is excessive even for a love/hate character like Schumacher.
MM

[arknor]

Some further dirty moves by Schumi obviously. Thanks for the links. So you have a number of dirty moves more here, bringing up the total to 13 or something.
Probably, if someone would dig deeper, we would find even more.

MS is the godfather of dirty driving based on these lists. No wonder people don't want to deal with that amount of "negative energy" here.

yea and alot are obvious trolls this is the most clear example
1998 - Schumacher barges Coulthard of the road -

er what? schumacher is on the inside hugging the corner the whole time coulthard closes into the side of schumacher yet its schumacher who barges coulthard of the road?
LOLWHAT?

Edited by arknor, 21 August 2010 - 22:31.

[RedBaron]

Is that all you could come up with? There's been tonnes more than that according to popular opinion. Do some more research, update this topic then maybe it'll be a worthy read. I have added some below that will suit you perfectly.

1998 Schumacher tries to ram Coulthard off the road by driving straight into the back of him.



1999 Schumacher tries to ram Irvine but misses him completely.

Edited by RedBaron, 21 August 2010 - 22:54.

[arknor]

Is that all you could come up with? There's been tonnes more than that according to popular opinion. Do some more research, update this topic then maybe it'll be a worthy read. I have added some below that will suit you perfectly.

1998 Schumacher tries to ram Coulthard off the road by driving straight into the back of him.



1999 Schumacher tries to ram Irvine but misses him completely.

ill raise you a
1995 - Circuit de Spa-Francorchamps , schumacher VS hill

devious! yet one of the greatest duels in the 90s

Edited by arknor, 21 August 2010 - 23:26.

[man]

There are some clips that have been posted here that I believe don't really belong in this thread. However I've updated the original post to include serious ones. The scary thing is that the worst one IMO is probably from the last race. Horrifying.