21 replies to this topic

[Fiorentina 1]

I have a few questions regarding Stefan Bellof and especially the 1985 F1 season. I always wondered about these and now with the 25th anniversary of his death and the Autosport article, I believe it's the perfect time to ask and get some response.

First, if Bellof was so highly rated, why was Tyrrell his only option for 1985 season? Did he have a two year contract or did it have something to do with his WEC commitments?

Second, why was Bellof replaced by Johansson at Tyrrell for the first race of the 85 season in Rio?

Third, why wasn't he picked up to drive the second Ferrari instead of Johannson, especially if there was some sort of falling out with Tyrrell (if that was indeed the reason he was replaced at Rio).

Thanks.

[rallen]

I have heard that he was offered a drive by Ferrari for 1986, but this only seems to be rumor and I don't think there is any evidence to suggest this was the case, perhaps someone out there could correct me?

I have heard a few things about him though - specifically that he was over rated - and was the same level as Brundell, not better - and look at the cars/career that he had after 1985. It was before my time but non the less I am aware that people do tend to rate people who had an early death higher than people who carried on and managed to spread out their career driving for teams like Footwork etc!

Having said that, from what I know myself, he sounds more promising than that! would loved to have seen him in a Ferrari, sounded more promising than Berger

[LittleChris]

Third, why wasn't he picked up to drive the second Ferrari instead of Johannson, especially if there was some sort of falling out with Tyrrell (if that was indeed the reason he was replaced at Rio).

Perhaps because during the two races for which both qualified Tyrrells during 1984 ( Britain & Holland ) Stefan J, having not driven an F1 car since the previous season, outqualified Stefan B both times. During the other race both were entered by Tyrrell ( Austria), but failed to qualify, I seem to remember Stefan J again was quicker than Stefan B.

[midgrid]

Regarding Bellof's absence from the 1985 Brazilian Grand Prix, the Autocourse annual for that year just mentions "a dispute" between him and the team, without elaborating.

[Tim Murray]

As I understand it, Bellof had signed a one-year contract with Tyrrell for 1984, with the team having the option to extend the contract for '85, '86 and '87. When Tyrrell decided to exercise this option, Bellof's manager Willi Maurer tried to have the contract declared null and void, as he claimed that Tyrrell had broken the terms of the contract by not providing a car for Bellof in the last three GPs of 1984, following Tyrrell's disqualification from the World Championship. This dispute led to Tyrrell replacing Bellof with Johansson at Rio, but things were sorted out in time for Bellof to return at Estoril.

[Fiorentina 1]

As I understand it, Bellof had signed a one-year contract with Tyrrell for 1984, with the team having the option to extend the contract for '85, '86 and '87. When Tyrrell decided to exercise this option, Bellof's manager Willi Maurer tried to have the contract declared null and void, as he claimed that Tyrrell had broken the terms of the contract by not providing a car for Bellof in the last three GPs of 1984, following Tyrrell's disqualification from the World Championship. This dispute led to Tyrrell replacing Bellof with Johansson at Rio, but things were sorted out in time for Bellof to return at Estoril.

So if things hadn't been sorted, would we might have seen Bellof at Ferrari instead of Johansson? That is an interesting thought.

In regards to the first question, him going to better team for 85. It looked like all the good rides were taken. Brabham needed someone with money and took Hesnault. Williams picked up Mansell, while Senna was picked up by Lotus. Arrows, I'm sure required both Berger and Boutsen to bring some sponsorship money. And, with the prospect of Tyrell getting Renault Turbo motors, it looked like a good option at the time. Maybe, that answers that question....

[arttidesco]

Another reason that might have sealed the deal for Johansson at Ferrari is that he had been backed by Ferrari's main sponsor since at least his F3 days.

[Fiorentina 1]

Another reason that might have sealed the deal for Johansson at Ferrari is that he had been backed by Ferrari's main sponsor since at least his F3 days.

According to this weeks Autosport, Bellof just signed a Marlboro deal as well for 85. But to be honest I doubt that had anything to do with anything. The only thing Marlboro did was pay the driver's salary (1/2 mil $). Enzo didn't allow any sponsors on the cars who did not contribute to the car. I.E only Agip, Magneti Marelli, Longines, Good Year, etc. Marlboro was the exception for a little 6 X 8 inch logo with the driver's names on it. Ferrari turned down Coke sponsorship a bunch of times in the early 80's...

[Arjan de Roos]

It also had to do with money. I recall Bellof being interviewed for German TV at the time of the first race of the season. Bellof with as sad face responded to the question: "Mr. Tyrrell stated that you do not have a seat as you did not bring enough sponsorship which they say they have now.", by "Why does he then only carry the word Tyrell on the sides of the car?".

Options for Bellof? Most (top) teams had their drivers for 1985, Bellof was also still considered a young gun.

Likely Ferrari picked out Lill-Lövis (Johansson) as he too was quick, but with more experience, Ferrari did not want to interfere with the dispute and Johansson likely was not strongly contraced with Tyrrell after the Toleman debacle.

Gerhard Berger confirmed that Ferrari had their eye on Bellof for 1986. It is even stated sometimes that Bellof had already signed a contract for 1986.

[Arjan de Roos]

Enzo didn't allow any sponsors on the cars who did not contribute to the car.

Marlboro contributed to the car by supplying the drivers (salary) as such.

[Tim Murray]

Without looking it up, I seem to recall reading at the time that Bellof was committed to Rothmans Porsche in Group C. This was an important drive for Bellof and the potential clash of tobacco sponsorship limited his options in F1. Tyrrell could accomodate him because they were able to tolerate his Porsche contract and the Rothmans connection. This scenario reminds me of the Porsche funded arrangement whereby Jo Siffert drove a March in F1 in 1970.

This was certainly true for 1984, when the Rothmans Porsche team had first call on his services when F1 and Group C races clashed, and Rothmans would not have let him drive for a tobacco-sponsored team in F1. But by 1985 Bellof had left the Rothmans Porsche team and signed for Walter Brun in Group C, so that he could make F1 his priority.

[Herbert]

According to the Bellof biography by Rainer Braun, Bellof declined an offer by Arrows for 1985 because he felt Jackie Oliver's offer wasn't serious enough. Toleman also offered him a contract but they had problems finding a tire supplier. Braun continues that there was a possibility to join Brabham, but Ecclestone was looking for a team mate for Piquet who would bring sponsor money. But then Tyrrell took his option on Bellof for 1985 with the promise to develop a turbo engined car. But when Bellof visited the Tyrrell factory "it was empty" which annoyed the German. When Bellof arrived for the first race at Rio Ken Tyrrell wasn't happy with Bellof's sponsors at his overall because he believed they did contravene their contract. Bellof then demanded from Tyrrell to pay him price money from 1984 and the first part of his salary for 1985. 20 minutes before the first practice Tyrrell suspended Bellof and replaced him with Johansson.


Braun also writes that Bellof signed a contract with Ferrari for 1986 during July 1985.

Edited by Herbert, 25 August 2010 - 20:15.

[Fiorentina 1]

According to the Bellof biography by Rainer Braun, Bellof declined an offer by Arrows for 1985 because he felt Jackie Oliver's offer wasn't serious enough. Toleman also offered him a contract but they had problems finding a tire supplier. Braun continues that there was a possibility to join Brabham, but Ecclestone was looking for a team mate for Piquet who would bring sponsor money. But then Tyrrell took his option on Bellof for 1985 with the promise to develop a turbo engined car. But when Bellof visited the Tyrrell factory "it was empty" which annoyed the German. When Bellof arrived for the first race at Rio Ken Tyrrell wasn't happy with Bellof's sponsors at his overall because he believed they did contravene their contract. Bellof then demanded from Tyrrell to pay him price money from 1984 and the first part of his salary for 1985. 20 minutes before the first practice Tyrrell suspended Bellof and replaced him with Johansson.


Braun also writes that Bellof signed a contract with Ferrari for 1986 during July 1985.

Well, there you go! Makes perfect sense to me. Bellof would have done better then both Johansson and Berger at Ferrari, imo. He was a higher caliber driver then those two.

[sonar]

It always bothers me that most people seem to think that formula one is the only standard by which a racing driver can be measured.
That, if you can't make it in formula one, actually you're no good at all.

Stefan was brilliant in what he did and what would have happened we will never know.

[Arjan de Roos]

It always bothers me that most people seem to think that formula one is the only standard by which a racing driver can be measured.
That, if you can't make it in formula one, actually you're no good at all.

Stefan was brilliant in what he did and what would have happened we will never know.

I disagree, some people do, not most.
Indeed he was brilliant, and what most people forget: World Champion.

[sonar]

For those of us who can read German:

http://www.hr-online...artrubrik=59637

[Twin Window]

According to this weeks Autosport, Bellof just signed a Marlboro deal as well for 85.

Did he? Then why was he never seen sporting any form of Marlboro branding I wonder...

BTW, Coca Cola were already after Ferrari in the early 1970s.

[WGD706]

Regarding Bellof's absence from the 1985 Brazilian Grand Prix, the Autocourse annual for that year just mentions "a dispute" between him and the team, without elaborating.

Tyrrell exercised its option on Bellof for 1985 but there was by then discord in the relationship as Bellof and his manager Willy Maurer argued that Tyrrell had broken the original contract by not competing in the final three races of 1984 (the team had been banned by the FIA as part of the fight between the team and the federation over Tyrrell's refusal to agree to a ban on normally-aspirated engines) and wanted a one-year deal so that the German youngster would be on the market for 1986. As a result he was suspended by Tyrrell in Brazil but was back in the spotlight with sixth place in Portugal and continued to show well as the season progressed.
http://www.grandprix...drv-belste.html

[midgrid]

Thanks for the additional information!

So did Bellof take part in pre-season testing with Tyrrell at Jacerapaguá? I've found a photo which appears to show him driving the 1985-liveried 012 in Brazil.

[TimArnold]

Just a bit of trivia, I qualified 12th in my heat for the 1981 Formula Ford Festival at Brands Hatch with Stefan Bellof just ahead of me. Somewhere I have the results sheet, I'll try to dig it out. Bellof was in his PRS, I was in my 1978 Royale RP24. Stefan went right through to the final if I remember correctly. I only made it through to the quarter final. I was tapped from behind at Graham Hill and spun right up the grass on the right and subsequently down the field, recovered and got going again but just missed getting through to the semi final by one place!

[ghinzani]

Tyrrell exercised its option on Bellof for 1985 but there was by then discord in the relationship as Bellof and his manager Willy Maurer argued that Tyrrell had broken the original contract by not competing in the final three races of 1984 (the team had been banned by the FIA as part of the fight between the team and the federation over Tyrrell's refusal to agree to a ban on normally-aspirated engines) and wanted a one-year deal so that the German youngster would be on the market for 1986. As a result he was suspended by Tyrrell in Brazil but was back in the spotlight with sixth place in Portugal and continued to show well as the season progressed.
http://www.grandprix...drv-belste.html

Im sure he did, I remember it being in the pics in Autocar.

[ghinzani]

For those of us who can read German:

http://www.hr-online...artrubrik=59637

TW did I see a logo on one of the great mans pics he's recently shared with us? Or maybe a badge on those nice white overalls he had towards the end, instead of his 84 WEC ones. Can you imagine a Marlboro logo on an old pair of Rothmans overalls? BTW Ive got a set of overalls like Thackwells that he wore around 84/85 and am trying to get the complete badges to make a replica set. I might try and masquerade as him at nightclubs after...