91 replies to this topic

[Dunc]

How good was he? He was way before my time but I've read on quite a few other threads that the fans really liked him as a driver.

I know he was consistent enough to win a WDC but he only won five races in his career - fewer than Mark Webber - why is he held up as one of the greats?

[f1steveuk]

I think because in was inordinately brave and had pure, natural car control, match the two together and he was very very quick! Out of the car he was a normal chap, liked a drink, smoked (a lot!!) and was quite happy to "say it like it is".

[kayemod]

I think because in was inordinately brave and had pure, natural car control, match the two together and he was very very quick!

Keke often looked a bit frightening out on the track, especially in qualifying, but as Steve says, he had natural car control the like of which isn't often seen, even in F1. His relatively modest score of "Only five races" (heaven help us!) wasn't helped by the fact that he was about 33 before he got into a reasonably competitive car, and those early Williams Hondas were real animals that few ever tamed as well as Keke did, and he'd had very many good wins in lower formulae before he got an F1 drive. On his natural car control, he often appeared to be right on the ragged edge, but it's significant that he never really hurt himself, which is pretty good evidence that he knew what he was doing. Results never tell the true story, there were similarities between Keke and Jean Alesi, great drivers and natural talents both, and although Jean would be fairly well up on most 'Greatest ever' lists of those whose memories go back far enough, he only ever won a single F1 race. To misquote a little, there are lies, damned lies and F1 win statistics, no doubt at all that Keke Rosberg was right up there with the very best of them, I doubt if many on TNF would question his worth.

[Stephen W]

I know he was consistent enough to win a WDC but he only won five races in his career - fewer than Mark Webber - why is he held up as one of the greats?

Look at the car he won the WDC in - not exactly what you would have chosen for a tilt at the title.

He was stunning behind the wheel - e.g. Daily Express International Trophy driving Teddy Yip's Theodore-Ralt and staying on track in the wet unlike Lauda, Andretti, Regazzoni et al!

In F2 he was also a HUGE star.

One of my favourite drivers and such a nice bloke!

[Tony Matthews]

One of my favourite drivers and such a nice bloke!

Nobody who saw his pole position run at Silverstone in 1985, on a damp track, and a slow rear puncture, will ever forget it.

Edited by Tony Matthews, 03 September 2010 - 16:21.

[Rob]

Results never tell the true story, there were similarities between Keke and Jean Alesi, great drivers and natural talents both, and although Jean would be fairly well up on most 'Greatest ever' lists of those whose memories go back far enough, he only ever won a single F1 race.

Jean Alesi was phenomenal to watch. Far better than his results would suggest. In fact, I can think of several occasions when he should have won but was thwarted by mechanical gremlins. What seems funny is that his one win wasn't a particularly great drive - he'd had much better drives that went unrewarded. The combination of Jean Alesi and the rosso corsa Ferrari is iconic.

[Marc Sproule]

I don't have time right this moment to convey what I saw of Keke when he raced in the US.

Suffice it say that I was most impressed.

I will be back later with more words.

There are a lot of pics of him in my Atlantic set in the link below. There are others of him in my Can Am and F1 sets....

http://www.flickr.co...57623186773769/

[Arjan de Roos]

Of track in my view a bit of a closed, quite guy not so anxious to sign autographs. I do recall a TV interview on the friday before the first GP on the modern Ring back in 1984. A tent full of German (genuine*) race fans, German TV crew and in comes Keke. Of course well spoken in German he was interviewed live for TV. Some questions on F1 and the upcoming race and Keke murmurs some answers. Then the interviewer asks: "When was the last time you drove on the Nordschleife?" Keke: "Yesterday". The tent exploded from the cheers.

*) This was 1984!

[David McKinney]

I don't have time right this moment to convey what I saw of Keke when he raced in the US.

Did you miss his Canadian races?

[Formula Once]

His was of course one of the more remarkable careers in that he went from being a regular non-qualifyer to becoming world champion in a year's time. Until that he had showed promise - or rather a lot of commitment and bravery - in not too competitive cars. 1981, his second year with the by then all but bankrupt Fittipaldi-team, was a low point, although funnily enough he had made by then quite a lot of money (also by racing CanAm) and had his own aeroplane, a holiday house on Ibiza and a collection of exotic sportscars. Had Alan Jones not retired, who knows if Keke had even raced in F1 in 1982, but he made the most of the opportunity with Williams, although him winning the world title was of course ultimately very much a consequence of the accident of Didier Pironi. As for the FW08, that was a very good car, a development of what had been the best car of the previous 3 years and much more reliable then the quicker, but fragile Renault and Brabham-BMW. I for one, however, feel that Keke's best year was 1983 when he wrung the best out of a FW08 which was now no longer a match for the turbo-cars. Yet had he not lost his points for second place at Rio, he would have been ridiciously long in contention that year. Inspite of THAT lap at Silverstone in 1985, I always felt Keke was never really made to race a turbocar, especially when fuel economy became crucial. He continued to shine on street circuits (were they less demanding on fuel?), but by the end of 1985 the until then poorly rated Mansell was very much on par with him and a year later Prost simply crushed him at McLaren. All in all a great characted from an era that featured many, if not the most ever.

[kayemod]

and a year later Prost simply crushed him at McLaren.

That's just unfair to Keke, the 1986 McLaren was an understeering Prostmobile that only he could drive. By late in the season, when Gordon Murray and others started listening to Keke, and modified the MP4 to better suit his driving style, he was pretty much as fast as Alain, even faster on occasion, though by that time he'd already made his decision to retire.

[COUGAR508]

Certainly Keke had a flair for the dramatic. The 160mph qualifying lap at Silverstone in '85, his wins at Monaco in '83 and Dallas in '84, and then leading his final race in Adelaide.

My most abiding memory of Keke's driving was watching some footage from the exit of Eau Rouge at Spa on the 1983 season review video. Keke was visibly faster and more committed through there than the other drivers. He gave many of those "against the odds" performances before he got his hands on a turbo car...

[BRG]

I know he was consistent enough to win a WDC but he only won five races in his career - fewer than Mark Webber - why is he held up as one of the greats?

I don't think many people would regard Keijo Rosberg as one of the greats, WDC win not withstanding. That's not to say that he isn't well-respected and liked, but surely he was never really seen as a special talent (in F1 terms at least). But he was spectacular and a proper racer - which is much to his credit and is where his reputation comes from IMO.

I used to enjoy seeing him in F2, where he stood out because he didn't go down the March route like almost everyone else and because he always drove with commitment and brio. And I certainly cheered for him at Silverstone when he won teh International Trophy, despite being in a Theodore that looked and handled like a boat (although that was an advantage on a day that wet!). Watching him hustle it through the old Woodcote chicane lap after lap like a rally car whilst the great and good fell off the road in droves was marvellous - sometimes the underdog comes good and that was one of those days.

There were some bravura performances like Monaco in 1983, starting on slicks when all about were on wets and taking the win, and the (then) fastest ever F1 qualifying lap at Silverstone. But four seasons at Williams and one at Mclaren ought to have netted more wins and this rather places Keke in context against his generation.

A great character, a throwback to earlier days perhaps with his smoking and general lifestyle, and magnificent car control, but ultimately lacking the last bit of finesse that marks out the really great drivers.

[COUGAR508]

I have heard a few different theories as to why Keke retired from F1 at the end of the 1986 season.

I understand that he was good friends with Elio de Angelis, and that Elio's fatal accident badly affected him. Also Keke may have become disillusioned with the increasing role of technology in racing.

Any thoughts on this?

[Formula Once]

I have heard a few different theories as to why Keke retired from F1 at the end of the 1986 season.

I understand that he was good friends with Elio de Angelis, and that Elio's fatal accident badly affected him. Also Keke may have become disillusioned with the increasing role of technology in racing.

Any thoughts on this?

1986 was a difficult year for him; he had moved from Williams to McLaren (very much the team to beat at the time) and later admitted he was rather shocked to find out the MP4 wasn't as easy a car to win with as Lauda and Prost had made it look to be in 1984-85. And, ironically, the Williams-Honda was essentially the best car of course in 1986... Elio's death must not have helped - they were great friends indeed - while even as early as 1985, Rosberg had already expressed to Lauda (at Monaco that year) to have been fed up a bit with the whole turbo madness. Personally, I never thought of Keke as an 'eternal racer' and, looking back, 8 years in F1 isn't a lot. But he seemed keen to develop business interests, make more money, etc. I was therefore suprised in fact when he returned to race sportscars and touring cars, as well as that he wasn't too succesful in them. Ever since, he has not been one to dwell upon the past and his ride in a FW08 earlier this year at Bahrein was the first time I believe he sat in a F1-car again in fact. Not too long ago I heard a respected journalist kindly ask him if he could ask some questions about his racing years and he responded quite rudely saying: "No! Why should I do that? You only want to make money out of that. Why should I do that when you make the money?" Maybe he was in a bad mood. Or maybe thats just him. Don't know.

Edited by Formula Once, 03 September 2010 - 15:53.

[David Birchall]

To address the original question-I would put him up there with Gille Villeneuve as an entertaining "Balls Out' driver. His personality, as with the personality of any successful race car driver, is going to grate with some simply because to succeed in such a competitive, male dominated ethos you have to be an SOB.

[plutoman]

Senna's opening lap at Donington is always raved about (rightly so), but Keke's first lap at Monaco '83 was every bit as impressive. For sheer entertainment value though, his first lap at Long Beach the same year will probably never be bettered.

A 'proper racer', as stated already, and fitting that he won the championship that should have been Villeneuve's.

[Gabrci]

To address the original question-I would put him up there with Gille Villeneuve as an entertaining "Balls Out' driver. His personality, as with the personality of any successful race car driver, is going to grate with some simply because to succeed in such a competitive, male dominated ethos you have to be an SOB.

I think he was much more intelligent than Gilles, but they were indeed both very fast and hugely spectacular. I would put him at the top of the second group behind Senna, Lauda, Prost, Piquet and Mansell.

[KWSN - DSM]

Keke is my favorite all time.

I came of age in the 80ies, and he was all that a f1 driver should be for me, I have no idea if he was nice, angry, mubling or the show at all parties, and really does not care, or feel it matters, on track in the Williams he as a mighty Giant in my eyes.

Having him as my all time favorite, does not mean I rank him as the best ever, or one of the greatest, I could possibly put him somewhere between 15 and 20 on my own list, and if i really made the list I may find him further down.

But he stood out for his absolute full commitment on track, for simply getting with it regardless of his mount, andlooking great doing it.

[f1steveuk]

My abiding memory of Keke was one Thursday in Monaco. I was lucky enough to be sent from the TV broadcast centre to pick up some tapes from the host broadcaster, during a session. Now of course as I had a pass to go more or less where I wanted, including through the tunnel, I made the most of the opportunity, and went the long way, up the hill from Mirabeau toward Casino!

I stopped to watch for a while, and watched as one car sped past, and dissapeared around Mirabeau. Silence fell, and a voice next to me volunteered, "he could get much closer to the barrier if he was quicker on the power, if he had any balls he'd have it flat to the floor before the bump, w+*K#r!".

I turned and expected to see a marshall, but instead, there was Mr Rosberg!! Never met him before, but we bothed leaned on the barrier as I listened to some insights into how you should drive Monaco. I said I had to go right around to the swimming pool to get some tapes, he shook man hand, and I said, "do you miss it?", "well " he said, "here? Now? f#*k yeah" when you've all gone, no".

As has been said, smashing bloke.

Edited by f1steveuk, 03 September 2010 - 18:26.

[RA Historian]

Of track in my view a bit of a closed, quite guy not so anxious to sign autographs. I do recall a TV interview on the friday before the first GP on the modern Ring back in 1984. A tent full of German (genuine*) race fans, German TV crew and in comes Keke. Of course well spoken in German he was interviewed live for TV. Some questions on F1 and the upcoming race and Keke murmurs some answers. Then the interviewer asks: "When was the last time you drove on the Nordschleife?" Keke: "Yesterday". The tent exploded from the cheers.

*) This was 1984!

I loved his interviews! I remember seeing one on ABC's Wide World of Sports sometime in the early '80s. The announcer asked him some kind of dumb question, don't really remember what, but it was a typical non-racing reporter type question. Keke gave him a long stare, said "No!", turned on his heel and walked away. I loved it!

But four seasons at Williams and one at Mclaren ought to have netted more wins and this rather places Keke in context against his generation.

How many wins did his teammates have in those four years at Williams?

Keke made the most with what he had. A very brave, no nonsense driver. Rather reminded me of Niki Lauda in many respects. A man who knows the sport thoroughly and who continues to impress me with his grasp of things. A very interesting "Lunch With.." interview in Motor Sport a few months ago. I am also impressed with the way he handles himself with respect to Nico. Rather unlike a certain Little League father whom I shall not name but whose initials are Anthony Hamilton.

I am of a similar mind to KWSN-DSN. While not my all time favorite, Keke is very close to the top. I always admired him.

Tom

[kayemod]

I think he was much more intelligent than Gilles, but they were indeed both very fast and hugely spectacular. I would put him at the top of the second group behind Senna, Lauda, Prost, Piquet and Mansell.

Well put, nothing to add to that. The big thing about Keke was that he didn't give a ****, a hugely talented down to earth bloke who was a whole lot better than statistics might suggest, not the greatest ever, not a multiple WDC, but on his day, in the right car, just plain unbeatable. Right at the top of the second division, and knocking on the door of the first, I was a fan from the first time I ever saw him drive.

[Macca]

He was one of my favourites, his down-to-earth speaking wouldn't be too popular now though - at Detroit one year he was asked how the track compared to previous years and replied "Better" and when they asked why he said "Because since last year we've been to Dallas....."

Paul M

[COUGAR508]

One notable story I remember hearing came about in the 1985 season. It might have been in an article by Nigel Roebuck. Nigel Mansell, Keke's Williams team-mate, had a major testing or practice accident at Paul Ricard, and was badly shaken. Later, Rosberg told some of the journalists to "go easy" on Mansell, citing the likelihood that his performance had been adversely affected by the shunt. Not something that every team-mate would go out of their way to do....

Edited by COUGAR508, 03 September 2010 - 19:53.

[Dave Ware]

Bobby Rahal rated him as the best driver he ever raced against. Obviously ahead of Gilles and Mario, who were second and fourth.

[Paul Hurdsfield]

He was stunning behind the wheel - e.g. Daily Express International Trophy driving Teddy Yip's Theodore-Ralt and staying on track in the wet unlike Lauda, Andretti, Regazzoni et al!

I was there for that it was the wifes first F1 race and we got soaked
But she still with me and was at Silverstone for her 35th F1 race this year

As for Keke, yep a proper F1 star, from a fans point of view

[Formula Once]

One notable story I remember hearing came about in the 1985 season. It might have been in an article by Nigel Roebuck. Nigel Mansell, Keke's Williams team-mate, had a major testing or practice accident at Paul Ricard, and was badly shaken. Later, Rosberg told some of the journalists to "go easy" on Mansell, citing the likelihood that his performance had been adversely affected by the shunt. Not something that every team-mate would go out of their way to do....

This is either the same story as or confused with the story of Pironí's testing accident in 1982 and Gilles asking reporters to go easy on him.

[kayemod]

This is either the same story as or confused with the story of Pironí's testing accident in 1982 and Gilles asking reporters to go easy on him.

The Villeneuve/Pironi version is the one that Nigel Robuck has told more than once in his columns, I've never heard it attributed to Keke before now.

[COUGAR508]

The Villeneuve/Pironi version is the one that Nigel Robuck has told more than once in his columns, I've never heard it attributed to Keke before now.

I have just checked this one further. It was after his own 160mph qualifying lap at Silverstone that Keke pointed out to the media that Mansell was still feeling the after-effects of his Ricard crash, and was therefore somewhat slower that day.

[Marc Sproule]

Did you miss his Canadian races?

Nope. What I missed was that I should have had some caffeine in me before I proofread that post. I saw all of Keke's Atlantic races...US and Canada...and as I said above, a fair number of his Can Am and F1 races, in both countries.

I had planned to add some more tidbits about him but my supervisor at work is having a meltdown....so I have to go back to try to put her back together.

There will be more...probably tomorrow.

[Wirra]

Silverstone 1979


Monaco 1981. Quiz -Can anyone nominate the track position?


Adelaide 1985

Edited by Wirra, 03 September 2010 - 23:06.

[mfd]

Why should I do that when you make the money?" Maybe he was in a bad mood. Or maybe thats just him. Don't know.

The assumption that someone will sit down and give freely of their time in order to benefit someone else's income is naive. In this particular case, the question might have been asked by someone who had a reputation for it, or perhaps hadn't met a promise offered before.
In my own personal experience, he once requested I didn't do a particular thing. He explained why & I had no problem with it. What's more in the long term, I did also benefit.

[D-Type]

Another example of Keke's interview style was when a journalist asked his opinion of his car's handling. he replied "I'm not allowed to talk about the car. But if I was, I would tell you that it's a sh*tbox".

[wolf sun]

My most abiding memory of Keke's driving was watching some footage from the exit of Eau Rouge at Spa on the 1983 season review video. Keke was visibly faster and more committed through there than the other drivers. He gave many of those "against the odds" performances before he got his hands on a turbo car...

It may be only a couple of seconds, but it's still enough to show what the man was about:

Keke at Le Raidillon


PS -

A tent full of German (genuine*) race fans

Those were the days - the species still exists, probably not to be found at F1 races anymore though...

[jj2728]

I always liked Keke. A very worthy WDC.

[Wirra]

Who could ever forget Long Beach.



http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

Edited by Wirra, 04 September 2010 - 01:03.

[TooTall]

My bit of Keke lore. Riverside Can-Am 1980. Keke went inside of Brabham going over the hill into turn 7 and Brabham came out on the short end of the proposition. Keke's Lola was damaged on the right front but he lit off after Holbert with all he had. Lap after lap Rosberg came around in lurid slides missing more and more of the car. By the end almost all of the right side bodywork was gone. I was shooting photos at the flag station at turn 7A, the right hander that led onto the back straight. The race had started late and it was quite dark at the end. As Keke came around on the cool off lap all of us at the corner station jumped up and down, clapping in appreciation of his performance. We could see his helmet tip slightly in our direction and then his left hand went up in a wave and his right foot went down on the gas throwing the car into a powerslide around the turn and on down the back straight. One of my favorite racing moments.

Here is a photo I shot early in the race when Rosberg's car was still largely intact, hot on the heels of Holbert.



Cheers,
Kurt O.

[rallen]

I think because in was inordinately brave and had pure, natural car control, match the two together and he was very very quick!"

How come he only won 5 races? Boutsen won 3, that may seem a provocative statement but for the many members of us here that are to you to remember him, he does seem to be a mystery and a sacred cow that we can't really ask things like this about him. Would love it if you guys could give us more info.

[COUGAR508]

I think it's fair to say that during his F1 career, Rosberg rarely had the car which was the class of the field, with the possible exception of the end of 1985. He was in uncompetitive cars until he joined Williams, and even then he had to contend with being a Cosworth runner against the turbos, until Honda came along. The early Williams Honda was a handful, to say the least, and by the time he joined McLaren he had formidable competition from Prost, Piquet and Mansell.

Keke also had a few "near misses" - Belgium '82, Austria '82, Brazil '82, and so on....

[Wirra]

...Would love it if you guys could give us more info..

I think it was all about an era - a time and place. There were quite a few drivers who simply always raced at the limit. Villeneuve was the standout only because IMO he drove a Ferrari. Jones, Piquet, Jarier and Arnoux were others who always drove at the limit - raw racers. Fate was kind to some and not to others. There was none of this ‘just settle for third and play it safe for points’ attitude that began to start shortly after. In later years Senna is the only driver I can think of who always drove to win – and the fans knew it, as they did with the previously named drivers. See the clips of Long Beach - that's how those chaps drove every time they pulled on a helmet.

If you weren’t there I’m afraid you missed it, the money, management and technology of F1 these days will shun drivers who break equipment or who are unsympathetic to their tyres.

[Valiant 273 Commando]

There are some really goo comments and observations about Rosberg. I was a big fan, especially after seeing him and Alan Jones at the Mid-Ohio Can-Am race - they were both trying very hard. The difference from today is that you could actually see it, even on TV, you could see someone like Rosberg keeping the car on the edge as he tried to stay with the turbo cars when he had an atmo Cosworth. I would have loved to see him at Indy in the late 80s/early 90s when someone that could trim out their wings for a bit more straight speed and still not lose it in the turns could win.

Edited by Valiant 273 Commando, 04 September 2010 - 14:31.

[mfd]

The difference from today is that you could actually see it, even on TV, you could see someone like Rosberg keeping the car on the edge as he tried to stay with the turbo cars when he had an atmo Cosworth.

This says everything about Keke's success in the Williams - the old Cossie giving away many horsepower compared to the Ferrari & BMW turbos, yet he still got results. A bit like someone winning in a division 2 car today...

[Formula Once]

This says everything about Keke's success in the Williams - the old Cossie giving away many horsepower compared to the Ferrari & BMW turbos, yet he still got results. A bit like someone winning in a division 2 car today...

In 1982 the difference wasn't that big yet; turbo engines were more powerful but still not very user friendly and unreliable; by the end of the year the 3 drivers who could still win the championship were all Cosworth powered (while Lauda, Watson, de Angelis, Alboreto, Piquet (sort of) and Patrese all won races with a DFV too). By 1983, turbocars had an even greater advantage (especially on fast, flowing tracks like Silverstone, Zeltweg, Hockenheim, Ricard etc.) and Cosworth-powered cars now only won 3 races (not suprisingly all on street circuits). That Keke was the fastest Cosworth-runner most of the time that year speaks volumes of his commitment; the way he clung on to the turbocars at Spa was simply breathtaking.

As for his famous fighting spirit, his Atlantic-races with/against Gilles were simply amazing.

[kayemod]

There are some really good comments and observations about Rosberg.

I agree, and the rest of your post sums up what was so good about Keke, why the fans loved him, and why no-one went home feeling they'd been short changed after they'd seen Keke Rosberg in action. As far as his "only five wins" F1 results are concerned, everything anyone needs to know about the man has been said in this thread, or in earlier posts on TNF. Keke was a late starter in F1, partly because he always insisted on being paid to drive, he didn't bring much sponsorship with him, and he often didn't have the most competitive car. It's a big mistake to judge purely on results, numbers on a page, the "only five wins" way of looking at things. I doubt if Keke has even been called a "sacred cow" before, but for those who live by Oscar Wylde's dictum, "The price of everything, and the value of nothing", Keke's "only five wins" must make him about half as good as Gerhard Berger, or one eighteenth as good as The Most Successful Driver Ever, or at least as far as the record books are concerned. And what else really matters today, where motor racing history is concerned?

[john aston]

How come he only won 5 races? Boutsen won 3, that may seem a provocative statement but for the many members of us here that are to you to remember him, he does seem to be a mystery and a sacred cow that we can't really ask things like this about him. Would love it if you guys could give us more info.

Results are only a small part of the story- Damon Hill won more races than Moss but was not the greater driver.Keke was wonderful to watch and seeing him come out of Woodcote in 85 on THAT lap was one of the best things I have seen in 40 years watching GP racing. It's not a sacred cow thing - personally I think Gilles Villeneuve is the more bovine ...

[Allan Lupton]

Keke's "only five wins" must make him about half as good as Gerhard Berger, or one eighteenth as good as The Most Successful Driver Ever, or at least as far as the record books are concerned. And what else really matters today, where motor racing history is concerned?

. . . and infinitely better than Chris Amon!

Statistics can prove anything and without saying a word against KR remember that his five wins were in four seasons in which there were 62 races (8%)
In earlier times Nino Farina, for example, had his five wins in three seasons from 21 races (24%).

[kayemod]

. . . and infinitely better than Chris Amon!

Statistics can prove anything and without saying a word against KR remember that his five wins were in four seasons in which there were 62 races (8%)
In earlier times Nino Farina, for example, had his five wins in three seasons from 21 races (24%).

I think you should have put 'prove' in inverted commas there, but unlike Giuseppe F, Keke never drove anyone off the track in achieving any of his results...

I'm starting to sound a bit like his fan club, but I don't think there's ever been a suggestion that Keke ever did anything even slightly suspect throughout his racing career. That's quite a record for a man acknowledged as just about the hardest charger of his era, though you could say much the same thing about most of his contemporaries as well, the on-track 'professional foul', Schumacher swerve etc, hadn't reared its ugly head in those innocent days.

[COUGAR508]

I think you should have put 'prove' in inverted commas there, but unlike Giuseppe F, Keke never drove anyone off the track in achieving any of his results...

I'm starting to sound a bit like his fan club, but I don't think there's ever been a suggestion that Keke ever did anything even slightly suspect throughout his racing career. That's quite a record for a man acknowledged as just about the hardest charger of his era, though you could say much the same thing about most of his contemporaries as well, the on-track 'professional foul', Schumacher swerve etc, hadn't reared its ugly head in those innocent days.

Perhaps the phrase "hard but fair" could have been invented to describe Keke?

There was the famous incident in Dallas in 1984 when after the race, Keke publicly took Mansell to task for what he regarded as Nigel's unfair tactics during the race. Keke seemed to regard those tactics as contrary to the ethics of F1 at the time.

[Marc Sproule]

As I said above, I was fortunate enough to witness all of Keke's Atlantic races and a fair number of other races here in North America.

Most of us didn't know a whole lot about him when he showed up '77. Didn't take long to find out.

His first race was at Mosport and at the start he put a couple of wheels in the dirt, from third iirc, and shot into the lead. He didn't win that day, I think he lost a motor, but before he went out he and Gilles had managed to bang wheels whilst fighting over a position, quite possibly the lead, I don't remember for sure.

Edmonton was next and in that race he was chasing Gilles for the lead. On the last lap he tried to pass GV on the outside of a corner. Gilles didn't move over and they came together. This snap illustrates the results.....

http://www.flickr.co...57623186773769/

Although they were seriously committed rivals, they never came together again in the one season they ran the series at the same time. Something that can't be said for many other open wheel types.

It's my opinion that the Chevron chasssis Rosberg and others ran weren't quite as good as the Marches that Gilles and many others drove were. Had they both been in the same chassis we probably would have seen more wheel to wheel battles between these two.

In one of the earlier posts in this thread someone said they thought Keke was the more intelligent of the two. I knew them both well enough to dispute that. Gilles was a small town boy from Quebec and Keke was a more urbane European who probably did understand the business of racing better, at least early in their careers. Gilles was no dummy.

Perhaps the reference was to their driving. I don't think either one of them was superior to the other in that regard. Both of them had bonehead moments but I don't think it had anything to do with their intelligence. They were both totally committed drivers and that has always led to making mistakes, no matter who the driver.

In the many Atlantic races I covered on only two occasions did I see the other drivers go out of their way in numbers to stand trackside and watch a competitor on track.

The first time was in Halifax '76. It was Gilles they were watching. Here's the pic and story that went with that moment...

http://www.flickr.co...57623186773769/

Unfortunately I don't have snaps to illustrate the other time, but of course, it was Rosberg.

I think it was '78 we were at Westwood, it was raining during practice or qualifying and no one wanted to venture out. No one except Rosberg that is.

I was standing in the esses with several of the drivers when Keke went out. We all looked at each other and shook our heads. We could hear him all the way around the circuit, dancing on the throttle. It sounded like someone playing staccato notes on a trumpet.

Every time he came by us he was sideways. No surprise there. What was pretty surprising though was that he was able to keep it on the track. Especially because his attitude and direction were never the same from lap to lap.

I'll stop rambling now and close by putting up some links of illustrative pics of Rosberg and how exciting he could be. Suffice it to say, I was duly impressed by what I saw with him behind the wheel.

There will be more in the future as I get further into my archives and get them scanned.

Trois Rivieres '77

http://www.flickr.co...57623186773769/

http://www.flickr.co...57623186773769/

http://www.flickr.co...57623186773769/

With Depailler, Quebec City '77
http://www.flickr.co...57623186773769/

With Rahal, QC '77
http://www.flickr.co...57623186773769/

With Cogan QC '77

http://www.flickr.co...57623186773769/

Montreal, '78
http://www.flickr.co...57623186773769/

QC, '78
http://www.flickr.co...57623186773769/

My apologies to those who would rather see the images without having to follow a link. Flickr no longer supports that ability.

[hogstar]

Keke is my all time favourite F1 driver. He told it how it was, doesn't suffer fools and you always got 100%. Keke wouldn't let you down even when his cars often did. As a life long Willliams fan, I was most annoyed when Alan Jones retired - he was Williams! Yet Keke stepped up admirably in the chaotic and tragic season that was 1982. Although virtually half the field could of won the WDC that season, they didn't and Keke did, in a car that was very good but not great by any means. If Brabham would of stuck with the 49D all season, instead of going with the BMW, they could of won - but they didn't.

I think Patrick Head had the view that Keke often overdrove the cars. I believe Head and Rosberg weren't best mates and lead to his departure to McLaren. I can see where Head was coming from to a degree, but certainly the FW08C and the FW09 were far from great cars and suffered badly from understeer and oversteer so had to be wrung from the scruff of their necks. Whether Rosberg gave enough feedback in testing is open to question. However, the fact that Keke wiped the floor with his team mates certainly didn't give Head's view much credibility. If Keke had of stayed for '86 he could of retired double world champion. I always thought his move to McLaren would be a mistake as the team was based around Prost and his driving style. By the time they changed Keke's car to more of his liking, it was too late...

Always missed from F1 and has no comparison today.