81 replies to this topic

[chuffbiscuits]

Apologies if there is already a thread on Stoneman but I didn't see one on the first few pages. He's won F2 and got an F1 test with Williams, and his Formula Renault UK results were pretty good. I wondered if anyone has been following F2 or Stoneman's career and has thoughts on whether he'll make it in F1.

[KateLM]

Apologies if there is already a thread on Stoneman but I didn't see one on the first few pages. He's won F2 and got an F1 test with Williams, and his Formula Renault UK results were pretty good. I wondered if anyone has been following F2 or Stoneman's career and has thoughts on whether he'll make it in F1.

Not talentless, but I am reserving judgement until he proves himself in a category with a stronger field than F2.

[SonnyViceR]

Formula 2 attracts B-grade talents at best, but even so, Stoneman was solid all through the year. I'm sure he'll be a fine test driver for Virgin/whatever next year, paying thousands of dollars for nothing and getting no mileage or attention whatsoever.

Edited by SonnyViceR, 20 September 2010 - 17:44.

[Risil]

F2 is Formula Palmer without the middle-aged executives, right?

[Ross Stonefeld]

Even FPA doesn't have those anymore, but yes run to a similar format.

Stoneman's Renault record was okay but not quite fully there. Even with the F2 championship he'll need to prove himself in F3/GP3/World Series/GP2. He's not going to get an F1 ride immediately not matter how quick he goes in a Williams.

[chrisblades85]

Decent enough driver. Not good enough for F1. I would imagine sportscars or Superleague/IRL kind of level in single seaters.

[chuffbiscuits]

It'll be interesting to see whether any team will pick him up as a test driver, as there could be political pressure behind the scenes to show that F2 is a viable route into F1. No criticism of Stoneman implied - just wondering aloud, seeing as this is the first year for F2 and he won it with a lot of 1st/2nd places. Funny - if Jolyon Palmer had won it instead I wonder what people would have said if they already think of F2 as FPA without the middle aged execs

[KateLM]

It'll be interesting to see whether any team will pick him up as a test driver, as there could be political pressure behind the scenes to show that F2 is a viable route into F1. No criticism of Stoneman implied - just wondering aloud, seeing as this is the first year for F2 and he won it with a lot of 1st/2nd places. Funny - if Jolyon Palmer had won it instead I wonder what people would have said if they already think of F2 as FPA without the middle aged execs

I suppose there is an outside chance if he seriously impresses in the Williams test, but I doubt it. F2 simply is not a viable route on its own, even the half empty F3 Euroseries had a stronger field IMO. And it was always Max's thing I believe, so I don't know how big an agenda there is for the FIA to push it forward now Todt is in charge.

[pingu666]

dont see whats so bad with f2 tbh, sure its a step or two below f1, but Im sure you could do f2 then gp2. and heck a few drivers have come from f3 to f1...

[chrisblades85]

dont see whats so bad with f2 tbh, sure its a step or two below f1, but Im sure you could do f2 then gp2. and heck a few drivers have come from f3 to f1...

Not so much the cars. It's the quality of drivers.

[Disgrace]

F2 is another pointless series, you really need to thrash the field to get so much as a bat of an eyelid from the best GP2 teams, never mind F1.

Soucek thrashed the entire F2 field last year and isn't even full time in Superleague Formula.

The end.

Edited by Disgrace, 20 September 2010 - 19:13.

[Ross Stonefeld]

It's got nothing to do with F2 though or his results in it. If he was able/willing to pay for a ride he'd have one. In any series.

[eliteboy2780]

It's got nothing to do with F2 though or his results in it. If he was able/willing to pay for a ride he'd have one. In any series.

What amazes me is that no on seems to understand this! People's perception of junior formulae is that it is a talent ladder where the best seem to feed through. Nearly everyone completely misses the fact that all teams in the junior formulae are businesses and hence need to make money, and lo and behold that money comes from drivers!

[Doughnut King]

What amazes me is that no on seems to understand this! People's perception of junior formulae is that it is a talent ladder where the best seem to feed through. Nearly everyone completely misses the fact that all teams in the junior formulae are businesses and hence need to make money, and lo and behold that money comes from drivers!

So true, Stoneman will likely be searching for extra funding this winter for a ride in GP2 or whichever series he wants and/or can get a seat in. He's done all he can on track this season, he now has to woo someone with enough cash with those results.

He could be the next best British driver but if his funders pull the plug we'll never see him in F1, while a mid-field F2 driver could land a big sponsor and manage to land a back of the grid F1 drive for a season or two.

The F2 win will at least put him in orbit of F1.

Edited by Doughnut King, 20 September 2010 - 19:56.

[Crafty]

He lives local to me, used to see the Alpine Motorsport transporter there when he ran in the Renaults.

Sadly hes going to need money or some good backing to progress isn't he, I sometimes wonder about the guys that never had any money to get into top flight - they could be as (or even more) talented as some of the "stars" of today but through no fault of their own never made it.

It seems the family have a couple of businesses, but I'd guess that the money now needed to go forwards would be out of reach.

I hope he can progress and show talent that I think he has, remember he was driving a Formula Renault in 2008, had a really tight battle with Palmer all year, now holds a super licence and is in the brink of stepping into an F1 car. Got to be worth a look by Gp2 teams ?

It seems that Gp2 is the way to go if you want to get in to F1, so hopefully he can do that next year and maybe F1 in 2012/3.

[Ross Stonefeld]

If he has a check they will look at him very hard indeed, but otherwise how are they going to cover the budget for him to drive their cars?

[Captain Tightpants]

I wondered if anyone has been following F2 or Stoneman's career and has thoughts on whether he'll make it in F1.

I'd say he's got a long way to go. Formula 2 is very weak right now; it seems to feed into Formula 3 more than Formula 1. I wouldn't be surprised to see Stoneman in a GP2 Asia (or possibly a lower GP2 proper team) next year, though.

[Fastcake]

I'd say he's got a long way to go. Formula 2 is very weak right now; it seems to feed into Formula 3 more than Formula 1. I wouldn't be surprised to see Stoneman in a GP2 Asia (or possibly a lower GP2 proper team) next year, though.

Indeed, GP2 is his best bet for next year. Perhaps a test seat, but that will really be dependent on financing. I'm fairly certain the only reason Souek(?) got his reserve seat was a bit of leaning on by the FIA to give there new series some credibility.

[Captain Tightpants]

That, and money. Soucek has a reputation for causing trouble when things don't go his way.

[sherer]

hope he ends up in GP2 as it won't look good for the series to have 2 champions go nowhere.

What will Palmer do he ran Stoneman close all season and should be looking at GP2 as well, although I guess with his Dad and MSV he has a bigger budget

[sir jackie walker]

F2 is another pointless series, you really need to thrash the field to get so much as a bat of an eyelid from the best GP2 teams, never mind F1.

You may well be right, but it's a shame. I wished the series well. It has a historical name, good idea (low cost), good format (no reverse grid), and a refreshing car (Williams-Audi pro Dallara-Renault). And the racing is good.

Soucek thrashed the entire F2 field last year and isn't even full time in Superleague Formula.

Now that's a bit unfair, don't you think? The other drivers in top-3 were Mikhail Alyoshin and Robert Wickens. Alyoshin seems to be leading his 100th or so FR3.5 campaign, while Wickens came 2nd in the inaugural GP3 season (which of course shows F2's place is not where the number would suggest). So no, you can't just conclude F2 is rubbish - well, in 2009 it wasn't - because Soucek hasn't got a proper ride. 2010 field has been a lot weaker, though. The best departed and were not replaced by drivers of same quality.

Speaking of middle-aged execs, what about a middle-aged Bollywood star?

[Captain Tightpants]

Okay, I'm going to hedge my bets: Stoneman to Carlin GP2 in 2011. Carlin will be looking to make an impact, and what better display of force is there than to sign the reigning champion of another league to your team?

[Ross Stonefeld]

Like Carlin driver and British F3 champion Jean-Eric Vergne?

[midgrid]

Vergne's already driven in Formula Renault 3.5 this year and won a race, so that seems to me like a more realistic possibility for next year. It would be exactly the same route as the one taken by Jaime Alguersuari.

[Captain Tightpants]

Like Carlin driver and British F3 champion Jean-Eric Vergne?

Fine, take two incumbent champions.

[Disgrace]

So no, you can't just conclude F2 is rubbish - well, in 2009 it wasn't - because Soucek hasn't got a proper ride.

You're possibly right: he was a bit like Pantano/Maldonado in GP2 2008/2010: champion by default due to many more years of racing. Maldonaldo has three years more GP2 experience than the runner up, Pantano had six more and Soucek was in GP2 for a while before F2. This makes Stonemans achievement more impressive by perspective.

Edited by Disgrace, 21 September 2010 - 14:48.

[Captain Tightpants]

I think the big problem with F2 is that there's only a handful of drivers that you can actually see going anywhere. This year, it's really been Stoneman, Palmer and Vasiliauskas. Compare that to GP2 and Formula Renault where you've got at least half a dozen drivers with bright futures before them. Thus, F2 lacks credibility.

[sherer]

I think the big problem with F2 is that there's only a handful of drivers that you can actually see going anywhere. This year, it's really been Stoneman, Palmer and Vasiliauskas. Compare that to GP2 and Formula Renault where you've got at least half a dozen drivers with bright futures before them. Thus, F2 lacks credibility.

agree there. They also had Mikhail Aleshin who has been around for awhile and race in GP2 and other series and he didn't set the world alight despite that extra experience.

How long does the F2 deal last anyway ? It was only started as Max and Bernie had a fall out and Max wanted to rival GP3.

Did seem strange to me when Wickens went from F2 and GP3, wonder where he will end up next year, GP3 to GP2 seems a very big step

[KateLM]

So no, you can't just conclude F2 is rubbish - well, in 2009 it wasn't - because Soucek hasn't got a proper ride. 2010 field has been a lot weaker, though. The best departed and were not replaced by drivers of same quality.

Speaking of middle-aged execs, what about a middle-aged Bollywood star?

While I am still not convinced by the rotating engineers thing (do they still do that?), I agree that the concept of F2 itself is not rubbish. In theory, having a series with decent enough cars, low costs and a guaranteed F1 test as a prize sounds like a great thing. But in practice, it hasn't seemed to work, particularly this year with the launch of GP3. While Soucek was the most experienced, there were other reasonably promising drivers around too like Aleshin, Wickens and Bortolotti in 2009. But nearly all the promising drivers have jumped ship, a lot of them to GP3, and the replacements haven't been up to much. It says a lot that Stoneman's main competition was Palmer Jnr, who was absolutely nowhere in 2009.

The main selling point of F2 is that it offers a more affordable opportunity to talented racers who maybe haven't got the sponsorship to compete in other series like F3 and GP2. But its hard to live up to that when you've got drivers like Ricardo Teixeira, Parthiva Sureshwaren, Plamen Kralev and Ajith Kumar handing over cheques. F2 can't co-exist with GP3 IMO, when the latter has seats going pretty cheap (thanks to the 30 car field), and offers exposure to the F1 circus.

Still, Stoneman did a decent job to beat a driver with a year's experience in that series to the title. But with the state that F2 is currently in, that isn't going to be enough to prove that he is F1 material.

Edited by KateLM, 21 September 2010 - 15:12.

[Fastcake]

While I am still not convinced by the rotating engineers thing (do they still do that?), I agree that the concept of F2 itself is not rubbish. In theory, having a series with decent enough cars, low costs and a guaranteed F1 test as a prize sounds like a great thing. But in practice, it hasn't seemed to work, particularly this year with the launch of GP3. While Soucek was the most experienced, there were other reasonably promising drivers around too like Aleshin, Wickens and Bortolotti in 2009. But nearly all the promising drivers have jumped ship, a lot of them to GP3, and the replacements haven't been up to much. It says a lot that Stoneman's main competition was Palmer Jnr, who was absolutely nowhere in 2009.

The main selling point of F2 is that it offers a more affordable opportunity to talented racers who maybe haven't got the sponsorship to compete in other series like F3 and GP2. But its hard to live up to that when you've got drivers like Ricardo Teixeira, Parthiva Sureshwaren, Plamen Kralev and Ajith Kumar handing over cheques. F2 can't co-exist with GP3 IMO, when the latter has seats going pretty cheap (thanks to the 30 car field), and offers exposure to the F1 circus.

Still, Stoneman did a decent job to beat a driver with a year's experience in that series to the title. But with the state that F2 is currently in, that isn't going to be enough to prove that he is F1 material.

I agree there, the standard spec series which tries to promote only driver skill, seems to completely forget that the team behind you makes such a large difference to the results. F2 gives a good place for skilled drivers without the cash to make an impression. Of course, whether there's skilled drivers to compete with is the stumbling point.

[THE "driverider"]

I think Oliver Turvye and Dean Smith have more talent than Dean Stoneman, but he has been solid all year.

[Captain Tightpants]

While I am still not convinced by the rotating engineers thing (do they still do that?), I agree that the concept of F2 itself is not rubbish.

The idea is that no one team will become competitive. Although all the cars are the same in GP2, the teams are not. Barwa, ART, Rapax and Racing Engineering are by far and away the best teams in GP2; by contrast, Trident and DPR are at the bottom of the food chain. By rotating engineers through the Formula 2 grid, everything remains in equilibrium.

[KateLM]

The idea is that no one team will become competitive. Although all the cars are the same in GP2, the teams are not. Barwa, ART, Rapax and Racing Engineering are by far and away the best teams in GP2; by contrast, Trident and DPR are at the bottom of the food chain. By rotating engineers through the Formula 2 grid, everything remains in equilibrium.

I get the thinking, I'm just not convinced by it in practice because building relationships with the people working on your car is an important part of the open wheel ladder. I seem to remember it being one of the complaints from the drivers who abandoned ship at the end of 2009.

[Mastah]

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/89023

Damn .

[froggy22]

poor guy wasnt expecting that. theyve caught it early though so hopefully he makes a speedy recovery

[Tufty]

poor guy wasnt expecting that. theyve caught it early though so hopefully he makes a speedy recovery

+1. Hope all goes well for him, and there are no complications.

[The Ragged Edge]

At such a young age? Lucky they caught it early.

[Tufty]

At such a young age? Lucky they caught it early.

Testicular cancer is most common around his age though.

[Crafty]

Huge shame as he was going to join ISR Racing for 3.5 WSR.

Lets hope he gets well soon and maybe do some guest drives at the end of the season and have a full season next year.

[f1fan1998]

I have done a bit of work with Dean last summer, and he is a really humble kid / guy, I feel pretty bad for him, especially knowing how hard he and his agent have worked to get a decent programme together.

Get well soon.

[Greem]

Let's hope he comes back stronger, fitter and more determined. Like that cycling bloke did...

[Lotusseven]

Sad news. Get well soon,Stoneman.

[Levike]

I saw most F2 races last year and i thought he is very decent.
I hope he is recoveryng well !

[FlatOverCrest]

Best Wishes for a speedy recovery for Dean.

[wewantourdarbyback]

My thoughts are with him, I wish him all the best in his recovery. Good luck Dean.

[Disgrace]

Christ. Best of luck to him.

[Les]

Best wishes to him, hope he's back racing soon.

[DanardiF1]

First, I hope he gets well soon. Also, I hope he can find his budget again to keep racing afterwards, as he's not going to be in a full-time seat until 2012 now. Hopefully he won't be forgotten by then.

[Pink Snail]

I do hope that Dean makes a full recovery from this bout of cancer, and that Frank Williams stands by him and leaves him the chance to come back when he is ready to test for Williams. Best wishes Dean from the Moralee family and get better soon.

[Doughnut King]

I wish him a quick and full recovery.