21 replies to this topic

[f1steveuk]

I've been having a chat with Dave Warby, son of the current World Water Speed record holder, Ken Warby. Dave is currently building a hydroplane, for which he will utilize a car engine, as he has done for many years. He dropped into this chat a little snippet about Ernie Nunn. He says that,

"everyone whose interested in this sort of thing in Australia and New Zealand knows of Ernie Nunn and his boat WASP, and his use of the best and most expensive European racing engines for his hydroplanes is legendary, a lot of Ferrari and Maserati engines".

Now from what I can see Mr Nunn was very active in the 60s and 70s, but I can find no records of what engines he was using, nor more importantly, were he got them from, because if they were, as suggested, F1 engines, he must have have had some very good contacts in Italy.

Can anyone help with this small mystery???

[David McKinney]

No, not contacts in Italy. He bought redundant race-car engines locally. Can't OTTOMH remember exactly what, but will get back after a bit of searching

[Dick Willis]

One was from the ex Dick Cobden Ferrari and oddly enough I have just discovered its supercharger ended up on an MG Special. I believe he also had the engine from the NZ Roycroft Ferrari for a while too.

[DanTra2858]

I've been having a chat with Dave Warby, son of the current World Water Speed record holder, Ken Warby. Dave is currently building a hydroplane, for which he will utilize a car engine, as he has done for many years. He dropped into this chat a little snippet about Ernie Nunn. He says that,

"everyone whose interested in this sort of thing in Australia and New Zealand knows of Ernie Nunn and his boat WASP, and his use of the best and most expensive European racing engines for his hydroplanes is legendary, a lot of Ferrari and Maserati engines".

Now from what I can see Mr Nunn was very active in the 60s and 70s, but I can find no records of what engines he was using, nor more importantly, were he got them from, because if they were, as suggested, F1 engines, he must have have had some very good contacts in Italy.

Can anyone help with this small mystery???

Not positive but believe that one of the a Algie brothers from Wollongong may have been involved, hope this helps.

[David McKinney]

Confirming the Roycroft 375 engine went to Ernie Nunn

The ex-Tom Clark Supersqualo engine also went into a speedboat, though I don't know whose. I do remember seeing a speedboat with a four-cylinder Ferrari engine on a car lot in Auckland in the early '60s, but won 't swear it was the same one. I do know at least one, and possibly two, Ferrari engines were imported for the purpose - one, I think from Chinetti in New York, and perhaps another from the factory

[Dick Willis]

Did the ex Cobden Ferrari engine in Nunn's boat run supercharged or otherwise and was it the 1.5 or 2 litre engine, the car apparently came with both ?

[john medley]

When the Whitehead/Cobden Ferrari arrived in what was to be the Donington Collection, it had the Corvette engine, so the original 1 1/2 litre engine was traced back to Ernie Nunn who eventually sold it to Tom Wheatcroft. I wonder whether the car arrived in Australia with two engines/two superchargers, or ONE of each? I suspect the latter, so when Curley Brydon installed the Corvette perhaps the Ferrari engine went to Ernie Nunn and the supercharger to John Bruderlin/Leon Thomas? The chronology fits.

Dick, wasnt that Bruderlin/Thomas MG you owned the now-Bob Boast car that carried the Ferrari blower Back Then? ( and I hope you and the Stewart MG have recovered from the weekend)

My understanding is that the Whitehead Ferrari came to Dick Cobden with not two engines but one engine whose capacity could be either 1 1/2 or 2 litres, supercharged or un supercharged

[Dick Willis]

John, I always thought it had two engines and Alf Francis, in his book, relates changing them for different Formulae but this would have been between FI and F2, ie. F1, 1.5 litre supercharged or F2, 2 litre unblown.
In the Cobden days it was entered as a 1500, obviously blown and and Easter, 1956 it was entered, according to that Bathurst book, as a 2 litre by Brydon, obviously blown.
I have seen a pic of the Ferrari engine being refitted to the chassis at Donington which appeards to have a blower mounted at the front but whether that blower came with the engine ex Nunn or whether they had to find a blower I don't know.
I asked Peter Lubrano about the blower at the weekend as he owned a Cigar MG ex B & T and I happened to find a receipt for its purchase (450 pounds in 1963 ) complete with trailer and Ferrari Blower.He said he doesn't know of the fate of the blower after his ownership.
A secretive person I know reckons he knows where the other Ferrari engine is now so that rather confirms there were two engines with the car but were there two blowers ?
Plenty of questions and some more answers needed.

[hiteknz]

Confirming the Roycroft 375 engine went to Ernie Nunn

The ex-Tom Clark Supersqualo engine also went into a speedboat, though I don't know whose. I do remember seeing a speedboat with a four-cylinder Ferrari engine on a car lot in Auckland in the early '60s, but won 't swear it was the same one. I do know at least one, and possibly two, Ferrari engines were imported for the purpose - one, I think from Chinetti in New York, and perhaps another from the factory

David,
Mystic Miss was I believe the boat you are thinking of it was owned by the Stevensons ,from memory (which is a bit dim ) it held the Australasian water speed record at one time with a speed of around 116 mph ,possibly diven by Papakura man Frank Gatland

[David McKinney]

I don't think it was Mystic Miss in the yard, Bob, though I do remember that boat, and its record-breaking

My recollection is that it was the ex-Chinetti engine that went into MM, but I'm wide open to correction

[hiteknz]

I don't think it was Mystic Miss in the yard, Bob, though I do remember that boat, and its record-breaking

My recollection is that it was the ex-Chinetti engine that went into MM, but I'm wide open to correction

No I am not sure either David it was just a thought ,I will think about it a bit more ,actually I did Google it up after posting and found a few references to it ,including the fact that Bill Stevenson himself later raised the record to 124 mph ,I have a few good memories of the hydro's actually but thats OT here

[f1steveuk]

Thank you chaps, It will take me a while to go through all of that, but it certainly gives me a better understanding of what I am up against!

I'll try and get some pictures of the hull as it is today, and of Dave, and Ken Warby's new hulls.

Thanks again chaps!

[john medley]

Australian Motor Sports May 1958 For Sale:"Ferrari racing motor 1500 cc V12. Three double choke Weber carburettors unsupercharged or supercharged 22 lbs psi with triple choke Weber. Two sets pistons, fuel pumps etc. Motor at present dismantled for inspection. Offers invited for all or portion of above lot or will consider Chev Corvette motor as exchange basis. Brydon Box 4233 GPO Sydney BW 8106"

[Dick Willis]

So who was the buyer, Ernie Nunn or ANOther ? Peter Lubrano told me at the weekend that B and T bought the Ferrari blower off Col James. He had a bit of trouble with it on the TC engine blowing at 22 lbs in keeping the poor TC engine together, eventually had to settle for lower boost.

[john medley]

Dick, the chronology jigsaw is important. Col James destroyed the single seat Barclay MG November 1956 and neither he nor the car raced again to my knowledge. Curley Brydon's advert was May 1958. When did Ernie Nunn get the Ferrari engine? Putting aside for a moment the notion of two superchargers, I think Bruderlin and Thomas were running the Ferrari blower in perhaps 1959 almost definitely 1960. Late 1960(guess) Sid Howard was racing the two seat Barclay MG

[wenoopy]

Dick, the chronology jigsaw is important. Col James destroyed the single seat Barclay MG November 1956 and neither he nor the car raced again to my knowledge. Curley Brydon's advert was May 1958. When did Ernie Nunn get the Ferrari engine? Putting aside for a moment the notion of two superchargers, I think Bruderlin and Thomas were running the Ferrari blower in perhaps 1959 almost definitely 1960. Late 1960(guess) Sid Howard was racing the two seat Barclay MG

According to George Begg in "A Classic World & When The Engine Roars", the V12 375 engine from the Roycroft Ferrari went to Ernie Nunn in Sydney in the early 1960's for installation in a speed boat. Apparently, when Gavin Bain of Christchurch purchased the chassis of the Roycroft car in 1968 (from Ferris De Joux, who had built a very attractive Jaguar-engined GT car around the chassis), he enquired after the V12 engine and eventually found that it was "still going strong" in Nunn's hands. In 1982, Bain found that Nunn had removed the V12 from the boat (or a subsequent boat?) to be replaced by two 4.4 litre Ferrari 'Daytona' engines, and that if the new combination of engines proved faster, then Bain could purchase the V12. It did prove to be faster, and Bain negotiated the purchase of the motor, slightly delayed by Nunn's sudden death from a severe stroke. I am not sure if George Begg had any involvement with the car at this time, his story would likely have come via Gavin Bain, and Auto Restorations staff. It would be interesting to know how well this fits in with information from the other side of the Tasman.

[lesmmiller]

According to George Begg in "A Classic World & When The Engine Roars", the V12 375 engine from the Roycroft Ferrari went to Ernie Nunn in Sydney in the early 1960's for installation in a speed boat. Apparently, when Gavin Bain of Christchurch purchased the chassis of the Roycroft car in 1968 (from Ferris De Joux, who had built a very attractive Jaguar-engined GT car around the chassis), he enquired after the V12 engine and eventually found that it was "still going strong" in Nunn's hands. In 1982, Bain found that Nunn had removed the V12 from the boat (or a subsequent boat?) to be replaced by two 4.4 litre Ferrari 'Daytona' engines, and that if the new combination of engines proved faster, then Bain could purchase the V12. It did prove to be faster, and Bain negotiated the purchase of the motor, slightly delayed by Nunn's sudden death from a severe stroke. I am not sure if George Begg had any involvement with the car at this time, his story would likely have come via Gavin Bain, and Auto Restorations staff. It would be interesting to know how well this fits in with information from the other side of the Tasman.

Without looking up the paperwork, I can tell you that I did a deal with Earnie in the mid 1970's and he ended up with two new V12 Ferrari engines, while I acquired his two old V12 Ferrari engines, being the 2 litre supercharged and the 290MM engine. The 2 litre engine went back to the UK and the car at Donnington, where it belonged and I steered Gavin Bain to the 4.5 litre, as he had a car that it was suitable for at the time. I still have the 290MM together with the majority of this car. To put a comprehensive post re these motors, here with full details, would swamp the forum! Earnie Nunn & Ray Jones were great friends of mine, unfortunately both gone now. Cheers, Les

[f1steveuk]

That is superb, thank you all, that fills a very large hole in my research.

[Dick Willis]

Les, I am still curious about the blower that ended up on a Bruderlin and Thomas MG, Dick Cobden tells me there was only one blower that came with the car so did the engine that went to Donington have a blower on it when it went there and do you know what happened to the other ex Cobden engine, the 1.5 litre ?

[lesmmiller]

Les, I am still curious about the blower that ended up on a Bruderlin and Thomas MG, Dick Cobden tells me there was only one blower that came with the car so did the engine that went to Donington have a blower on it when it went there and do you know what happened to the other ex Cobden engine, the 1.5 litre ?

Hi Dick, How the bloody hell are you?? You've probably forgotten me, but I'm tied up with HRG's as well, yes a very sick man!
Tom Wheatcroft bought the Cobden car without an engine, Earnie sold Tom the 1.5 litre engine in 3 carbi form. I installed the two litre engine in our 1952 Ferrari 212 (ex Pappy Lowe) and it remained there for a few years, with 3 carbis fitted, simply because this motor was up and going and the original motor wasn't. The most interesting thing about this particular 2 litre engine being that it was EXTREMELY LOUD mechanically, with a water pump that ran 4.5 times engine speed, thus to say I never used a radiator cap and the engine never overheated. I drove the car to the the Motor Show at Sydney Show Ground one year and the sound caused quite a stir, with people following behind all the way until I parked it......how's that for bees to honey!
When the car's original engine was ready, I installed it & sold the 2 litre engine to Wheatcroft with the supercharger and a very special 3 barrell Weber. Wheatcroft had the car and that I felt the engine belonged with the car.
That all was some 30 years ago.
Cheers
Les

[Dick Willis]

Thanks Les, good to have you on TNF and I'm sure you have a barrel load of stories to tell, like how the Lagonda ended up with its "tourer" body etc and of course the HRG's etc.

Thanks also for filling in the gaps with the two ex Cobden Ferrari engines, they have always been a riddle to me and some others too.

[Lola5000]

can we add this thread to the boat car engine thread.