62 replies to this topic

[terry mcgrath]

Can anyone help with the identity of these 2 drivers some think the oriental driver is Bira others don't
the pic was almost certainly taken in Holland circa 1951

Edited by terry mcgrath, 27 September 2010 - 04:19.

[uechtel]

The other one looks a little bit like Villoresi. But I can not imagine those two drivers in a Dutch sports car race in 1951. I think these were mainly national events. Could the photos been taken on something like a parade lap of the Formula 1 race at Zandvoort in 1949?

[speedman13]

Farina & Bira

[wenoopy]

Farina & Bira

Bira appears to be sharing the cockpit with a large bouquet of flowers, and the general 'festivity' of the picture suggests he may have just won the race. What sports car races did he win around the early 1950's. It seems to pre-date the (?)compulsory wearing of crash helmets.

[David McKinney]

The hair's too dark for Farina or Villoresi in the XK120 era

I don't recall Bira racing an XK120 anywhere other than England

The only Dutch XK120 driver from the early '50s whose name is known to me is J L van Dieten (who would later race the ex-Roosdorp C-type)

[Jean L]

Maybe Bira and Sutton (test driver before Dewis).

[terry mcgrath]

Yes that is one of the problems there has never been a report of Bira running an XK anywhere but at Silverstonet.
Without knowing what Van Dietan looks like that is a possibility as his car was black when new as well and we had looked at this but was hoping to get a more firm answer.
It is definetly not Sutton he was a small bloke and always had a cigarette in his fingers!
terry

The hair's too dark for Farina or Villoresi in the XK120 era

I don't recall Bira racing an XK120 anywhere other than England

The only Dutch XK120 driver from the early '50s whose name is known to me is J L van Dieten (who would later race the ex-Roosdorp C-type)

[Allan Lupton]

What about Jack Fairman?
I just found a photo of him in 1994 when looking up something else, and the features look quite similar - hair changed colour in the 40+ years so that's no clue.

[arttidesco]

What about Jack Fairman?
I just found a photo of him in 1994 when looking up something else, and the features look quite similar - hair changed colour in the 40+ years so that's no clue.

I believe Jack Fairman had curly hair ?

[Allan Lupton]

I believe Jack Fairman had curly hair ?

Actually, now I look at period photos I remember he had a rounder face, moustache and (as you say) wavy hair. The 1994 photo actually looks more like the chap in the XK than an older JF should do and may well be wrongly captioned anyway.

[arttidesco]

This is a real long shot but I do not know of many cars with aero screens and wipers... pauses for hurl of TNF abuse to the effect that OH! YES THERE ARE !....the only one I can think of that I've seen recently is the Leslie Johnson / Jock St Horsfall Aston which won at Spa in 1948, I don't think we are looking at the Spa DB1 but could we be looking at Leslie Johnson ?

Here is the only pic I have ever (knowingly) seen of Leslie.

[wenoopy]

On the "Nederlandse racehistorie" website (www.racehistorie.nl) there is a picture of Bira after winning the Zandvoort GP in a 4CL Maserati in ?1948. It would be very difficult to convince me that the picture on this thread is not Bira. Not the same car, but also a very similar floral display.

[Richard Jenkins]

This is a real long shot but I do not know of many cars with aero screens and wipers... pauses for hurl of TNF abuse to the effect that OH! YES THERE ARE !....the only one I can think of that I've seen recently is the Leslie Johnson / Jock St Horsfall Aston which won at Spa in 1948, I don't think we are looking at the Spa DB1 but could we be looking at Leslie Johnson ?

Here is the only pic I have ever (knowingly) seen of Leslie.

Definitely not Leslie Johnson. I do recognise the face but am having trouble reconciling it with a name at the moment.

[David McKinney]

Col. Michael Head?

[RacingCompagniet]

Col. Michael Head?

If so, he must have undergone plastic surgery later.

[Bloggsworth]

You'd have a job convincing me that the second isn't Bira. The first looks as if he is auditioning for the part of Lord Peter Wimsey! There is something of the casting department teutonic aristocrat about the face, and it rings a bell, but I'm damned if I can place it - The odd thing is, I'm not old enough to have known it; I recognise it in the same way as I do Nuvolari's.

[Tim Murray]

... it rings a bell, but I'm damned if I can place it.

Agreed. He does remind me slightly of Harry Schell - does anyone know what Harry's mysterious brother Philippe looked like?

[Bloggsworth]

I'll tell you one thing, No.1 was never a prop-forward...

[wenoopy]

You'd have a job convincing me that the second isn't Bira. The first looks as if he is auditioning for the part of Lord Peter Wimsey! There is something of the casting department teutonic aristocrat about the face, and it rings a bell, but I'm damned if I can place it - The odd thing is, I'm not old enough to have known it; I recognise it in the same way as I do Nuvolari's.

Is he by any chance John Hugenholtz (snr) designer and adviser on many circuits, but not Zandvoort apparently. He reportedly had one race only, on an airfield circuit at Leeuwarden in 1949. Can't find a recognisable photo of him - there are a bewildering number of identically-named relatives - Johannes Bernhardus Theodorus Hugenholtz.

[David McKinney]

His son is a TNF member...

[arttidesco]

Is he by any chance John Hugenholtz (snr) designer and adviser on many circuits, but not Zandvoort apparently. He reportedly had one race only, on an airfield circuit at Leeuwarden in 1949. Can't find a recognisable photo of him - there are a bewildering number of identically-named relatives - Johannes Bernhardus Theodorus Hugenholtz.

Here are a couple of pictures of what I believe is, well I'll be honest, what Rob Widdows believes is John Hugenholtz driving his Riley Brooklands in his only race at Leeuwarden.

While some details of the car match RHD and passenger seat covered the #4 in the picture clearly does not have a wiper on the screen as does the picture at the top of the thread. If our picture is John then he is not sitting in his Riley Brooklands at Leeuwarden.

Any cars other than the ERA G Type that would have had a hard cover over the passenger seat at that time ?

Edited by arttidesco, 29 September 2010 - 12:12.

[David McKinney]

Terry has assured both cars in the picture are XK120s. Personally, I wouldn't have thought the darker one is, but Terry's studied hundreds more XK120 photos than I have, and I take his word for it ;)

[David Birchall]

Farina & Bira

I tend to agree with this. The contrast really isn't good enough to tell how grey Farina's hair is but it certainly looks like him. "Bira" is not driving his own XK120, unless he had dumped the original aeroscreen in favour of a custom made job. But who else could it be?

[Arjan de Roos]

Not Farina, Villoresi nor Hugenholtz Sr.

[Tim Murray]

I agree it's not Farina. Farina had very long earlobes, which this man doesn't have.

[David Birchall]

I still think it may be Farina! The earlobe is not that clear in the photo above but does look like it could be quite long. Also, the Ferrari and Alfa teams were not present at Zanvoort on July 22 1951. Farina was and drove a Maserati 4CLT. Bira, who was driving the OSCA that year, did not race in the GP but may have attended anyway...?

[Tim Murray]

The earlobe is not that clear in the photo above but does look like it could be quite long.

Agreed, but look at this photo:

http://www.google.co...ved=0CCwQ9QEwBQ

Aside from the difference in the hairline, Farina's ear doesn't look like our man's at all (to me, anyway).

[Gabrci]

Agreed, but look at this photo:

http://www.google.co...ved=0CCwQ9QEwBQ

Aside from the difference in the hairline, Farina's ear doesn't look like our man's at all (to me, anyway).

He did get bald like that later though:

Farina

Funnily enough, I've checked many photos now and he virtually always seems to wear a helmet, as if trying not to show his head. Judging by that I can even imagine that the photo you found is "photoshopped".

I don't dare to hazard a guess though whether it's him or not.

[David Birchall]

I read a story recently about Farina at the airport- Heathrow ? - after the win at Silverstone still wearing his racing coveralls to announce to the world who he was!

[arttidesco]

Terry has assured both cars in the picture are XK120s. Personally, I wouldn't have thought the darker one is, but Terry's studied hundreds more XK120 photos than I have, and I take his word for it ;)

Looked at a couple of XK 120's and agree that it's a good fit this pic from LM even shows a similar screen to the one in 'our' top pic though sans wiper, but the screen does look familiar. The wiper should help identify which car and possibly where the photo was taken.

Here is a pic of Nino Farina circa 1950 looks a bit older than our chap to me certainly his hairline seems to have receded to far IMHO.

Can we exclude drivers like Ian Appleby, Peter Whitehead and Peter Walker ?

I am wondering if the theory that these pics were taken in Holland is correct ?

Edited by arttidesco, 30 September 2010 - 12:07.

[David Birchall]

Definatlely not Ian Appleyard. And the two Peters looked much more 'English'.
Whitehead had a moustache didn't he?

[David McKinney]

Whitehead had a clean upper lip. But I agree the man in the picture isn't him, or Walker or Appleyard

[wenoopy]

I believe the answer to Terry's query is in the first 3 postings: i.e. Farina and Bira. The cars are XK 120's on evidence of the shape of top of driver's door and position of rear corner of bonnet. As for Farina's ear-lobes, do we know that they were ever symmetrical left/right. He had numerous injury accidents, so part of an ear might well have become detached at some stage. (Jean Behra had a plastic ear!)

1949 seems to have been the only year that Bira and Farina both ran at Zandvoort over the period in question, and neither won that year, which rules out a victory lap, but the suggestion of a pre-race drivers' parade in XK 120's is feasible; was there a Jaguar agent or club in the Netherlands at the time who might have loaned the cars? Is Terry certain the photos are from the same year?

[Tim Murray]

As for Farina's ear-lobes, do we know that they were ever symmetrical left/right. He had numerous injury accidents, so part of an ear might well have become detached at some stage. (Jean Behra had a plastic ear!)

1950: right earlobe present and correct:


and still there in 1952:

[Arjan de Roos]

Gentlemen,

I was informed by another Dutch gentleman who in fact attended the race. He was so kind to inform me on the 'Bira' driver. This in fact Dr. Oei Tjong Bo. A man of Chinese origin and having the means to purchase as the first Dutch resident a Jaguar XK120. He won in superb, well controlled style. He was living in Amsterdam. He also send me a page from the program.

Their were 3 Jaguars entered: #36 for Dr. Bo, #42 voor Joky van Dieten (a very fast lady!) and Simon Maasland (later first dutch Ferrari importer and Jaguar dealer, the garage still exists). Never have seen him, but I guess this is Mr. Maasland (coincidentally his daughter was also called Joke (or Joky) and raced amongst others a Mondial in the fifties.

The race was held on June 10th during the National Motor and Car races at Zandvoort. They raced in Class E: above 2.000 cc with starting time 15:55.

[arttidesco]

Gentlemen,

I was informed by another Dutch gentleman who in fact attended the race. He was so kind to inform me on the 'Bira' driver. This in fact Dr. Oei Tjong Bo. A man of Chinese origin and having the means to purchase as the first Dutch resident a Jaguar XK120. He won in superb, well controlled style. He was living in Amsterdam. He also send me a page from the program.

Their were 3 Jaguars entered: #36 for Dr. Bo, #42 voor Joky van Dieten (a very fast lady!) and Simon Maasland (later first dutch Ferrari importer and Jaguar dealer, the garage still exists). Never have seen him, but I guess this is Mr. Maasland (coincidentally his daughter was also called Joke (or Joky) and raced amongst others a Mondial in the fifties.

The race was held on June 10th during the National Motor and Car races at Zandvoort. They raced in Class E: above 2.000 cc with starting time 15:55.

Thanks for putting me out of my misery

[Jean L]

Problemo,in the Ferrari Yearbook of 1955, there is a portrait of S.Maasland and he does not look like this.

[Rob Semmeling]

The race was held on June 10th during the National Motor and Car races at Zandvoort. They raced in Class E: above 2.000 cc with starting time 15:55.

Class E - sports cars above 2000ccm
12 laps = 50.316 km
Nine starters

1. Dr. Oei Tjong Bo, Amsterdam (Jaguar) 26.43,7 = 112.95 km/h
2. J.L. van Dieten, The Hague (Jaguar) 26.46,2
3. R.E.J.M. Tielens (Delahaye) 26.53,6
4. Adams, The Hague (Cotura-BMW)

Fastest lap: Van Dieten at 116.02 km/h
Fastest practice lap: Bo in 2.13 = 113.5 km/h



Bo ahead of Adams, Tielens and Van Dieten.



Bo leading through the Tarzanbocht.

[Rob Semmeling]

Joky van Dieten's homepage: [Link removed]

My name is Joky Van Dieten. I was born in Holland where I lived on and off for 40 years before immigrating to Canada. My background is in business, to be specific importing Ferraris and Maseratis, and a dealer of Alfa Romeo sports cars. When I was younger, I raced sports cars such as Ferrari, Jaguar, Alfa Romeo, etc... (I was the first women's racing car driver in Europe) and I did rally driving (Ferrari, Jaguar XK120, BMW 326, Alfa Romeo), and also practiced sports like ocean sail racing (always winning), skiing, figure skating, adventure traveling.

Edited by Rob Semmeling, 07 December 2012 - 15:44.

[David Birchall]

I think she must be joking!!

Sorry, couldn't resist it.

[David McKinney]

I always wondered who the first "women's racing car driver in Europe" was

[David McKinney]

Problemo,in the Ferrari Yearbook of 1955, there is a portrait of S.Maasland and he does not look like this.

So maybe the mistake is in someone presuming J L van Dieten was Joky, and not her father, brother or husband?

[raceannouncer2003]

Another photo at this link:

http://www.cpz.nl/ev...om/emag_p17.pdf

Vince H.

[wenoopy]

I think she must be joking!!

Sorry, couldn't resist it.

You ain't seen nuthin yet. Look at her website!

Also other references to "Joky van Dieten Maasland" as apparently being the same person. Was there collusion between the Jaguar drivers?

[D-Type]

Another photo at this link:

http://www.cpz.nl/ev...om/emag_p17.pdf

Vince H.

Look at the screens.

This picture shows Dr Bo's car clearly and it has the non-standard aero screen. I think this confirms that the second photo is him. Just a thought - did he perhaps race his Jaguar in more than one race at Zandvoort?

So, back to the first picture. This has a "standard" (as much as anything was with the early XK120) aero screen mounting, but with a wiper which I think is unusual as I haven't seen another picture of one. Does this help to identify the car, which could lead to the driver? From limited knowledge and a few published photos I suggest that either the wiper has been fitted to an early aero screen car, or a standard roadster with full width screen has had the screen removed and replaced with an aero screen and the existing wiper utilised. Over to the Jaguar experts

[Tim Murray]

Just a (slightly OT) thought. I'm no expert on these things but I think Dr Oei Tjong Bo would have been known as Dr Oei, not Dr Bo. I have several friends of Chinese extraction who use their first-listed names as their surnames, and Mao Tse Tung was always referred to as Chairman Mao, not Chairman Tung.

[Eric Dunsdon]

So maybe the mistake is in someone presuming J L van Dieten was Joky, and not her father, brother or husband?

She had quite a dice with Don Beauman in Sir Jeremy Boles Aston-Martin DB3 at Zandvoort in 1954 I recall.

Edited by Eric Dunsdon, 01 October 2010 - 12:52.

[Eric Dunsdon]

I still think it may be Farina! The earlobe is not that clear in the photo above but does look like it could be quite long. Also, the Ferrari and Alfa teams were not present at Zanvoort on July 22 1951. Farina was and drove a Maserati 4CLT. Bira, who was driving the OSCA that year, did not race in the GP but may have attended anyway...?

If the gent in the top photograph is Farina then I'm a Dutchmans ear lobe!. Am I the only one here old enough to have actually seen the great man?.

[Sharman]

You are quite correct Eric,nothing like Nino, looks more like a young Cardew Robinson to me

[David Birchall]

If the gent in the top photograph is Farina then I'm a Dutchmans ear lobe!. Am I the only one here old enough to have actually seen the great man?.

Hot Verdomme!!

http://www.italiaspe.../cikk.php?id=34

Take a look Dutchy