30 replies to this topic

[SpeedRacer`]

Interesting stuff, would love to see a GP5 but the license would be an issue.

Codies, sign him up, codies codies sign him up!

http://www.meanmachi...nterview-rg.php

Edited by SpeedRacer`, 29 September 2010 - 19:29.

[Viktor]

Thanks, great read
Considering what he says about GP1 and keyboard, I think we will never get a racing game that is as good as GP1 and GP2 was with a keyboard, it was just on another level from anything else, amazing!

/Viktor

[Kucki]

Indy 500 felt much better on a keyboard then GP1 and GP2

[Exar Kun]

I didn't think so, Kucki. Indy 500 was excellent for analogue inputs - it was the first game I used an analogue joystick in but F1GP and GP2 were both excellent for digital keyboard inputs. Indy 500 you had too much understeer and could see the wear developing on the tyres.

[Mat]

I didn't think so, Kucki. Indy 500 was excellent for analogue inputs - it was the first game I used an analogue joystick in but F1GP and GP2 were both excellent for digital keyboard inputs. Indy 500 you had too much understeer and could see the wear developing on the tyres.

I always felt like the reason GP2 was better for keyboard was because if you were using keyboard it would 'steer assist'... I never liked driving with aids but it certainly made it better!

[Villes Gilleneuve]

keyboards?

Come on, peripherals are cheap.

[Arn]

keyboards?

Come on, peripherals are cheap.

I have a G25 but I have never ever been as consistent with my laptimes as I was with a keyboard in GP1. Granted, I played that game for hours every day for years.

[mkoscevic]

I stumbled upon this interview a few weeks ago, great read. Geoff is a true legend and i think sim racers would benefit if he would make a comeback.

Edited by mkoscevic, 06 October 2010 - 07:53.

[Maldwyn]

I was reading this article about the BBC Micro computer of the mid-1980's which brought back memories of the likes of Elite and...Revs!!!

I then had to go searching for Revs on You Tube - - and hadn't realised that Geoff Crammond had created that as well as the GP series. Revs was superb...at the time!!!

[SpeedRacer`]

I was reading this article about the BBC Micro computer of the mid-1980's which brought back memories of the likes of Elite and...Revs!!!

I then had to go searching for Revs on You Tube - - and hadn't realised that Geoff Crammond had created that as well as the GP series. Revs was superb...at the time!!!

Yeah thanks for that - I spent literally months on Revs (and subsequently YEARS on GP2!)

[wewantourdarbyback]

Huw Gengine
Peter Out
Percy Veer

[Tenmantaylor]

Looking forward to reading this

Crammond is a true pioneer of computer games let alone racing simulators. I absolutely loved Stunt Car Racer and Grand Prix as a kid, I couldn't believe how detailed the games were, they made most other games (flight sims included) seem crude and base. His games transformed my Atari ST into something from the future. It's quite amazing to think that 20 years later that, fancy graphics and all, games developers struggle massively to come anywhere near the complexity of physics, setup options and coding that he wrote into the Grand Prix and GP2 with massively inferior technology available. Look at F1 2010 by Codemasters, the AI don't even have real lap times

[Augurk]

Looking forward to reading this

Crammond is a true pioneer of computer games let alone racing simulators. I absolutely loved Stunt Car Racer and Grand Prix as a kid, I couldn't believe how detailed the games were, they made most other games (flight sims included) seem crude and base. His games transformed my Atari ST into something from the future. It's quite amazing to think that 20 years later that, fancy graphics and all, games developers struggle massively to come anywhere near the complexity of physics, setup options and coding that he wrote into the Grand Prix and GP2 with massively inferior technology available. Look at F1 2010 by Codemasters, the AI don't even have real lap times

Perhaps Crammond is the missing link for Codemasters. GP5 is not an option anyway because of the licensing. CM hire GC and perhaps for F1 2011 things will be a lot better

[SpeedRacer`]

Perhaps Crammond is the missing link for Codemasters. GP5 is not an option anyway because of the licensing. CM hire GC and perhaps for F1 2011 things will be a lot better

If Crammond released a GP5 with unlicense teams/drivers I can imagine it would be pretty popular.

[Villes Gilleneuve]

Perhaps Crammond is the missing link for Codemasters. GP5 is not an option anyway because of the licensing. CM hire GC and perhaps for F1 2011 things will be a lot better

I've never like Crammond's games, all f1 games needed was an update from F1CE on the PS3. The franchise needs multi-year, incremental development, with a good base program.

[Tenmantaylor]

I've never like Crammond's games, all f1 games needed was an update from F1CE on the PS3. The franchise needs multi-year, incremental development, with a good base program.

Are you comparing a game that came out 4 years ago on PC and third generation consoles with someone written for the PC 386/486, Atari ST and Amiga 20 years ago? You're entitled not to like his games but at the time they were revolutionary. And Stunt Car racer was the most fun stunt driving game/sim ever IMO! I wish they'd bring out a modern version with updated graphics and similar tracks and physics.

Edited by Tenmantaylor, 08 October 2010 - 09:11.

[scolbourne]

Are you comparing a game that came out 4 years ago on PC and third generation consoles with someone written for the PC 386/486, Atari ST and Amiga 20 years ago? You're entitled not to like his games but at the time they were revolutionary. And Stunt Car racer was the most fun stunt driving game/sim ever IMO! I wish they'd bring out a modern version with updated graphics and similar tracks and physics.

Some of the stunt car tracks have been converted for GPL if you still need your fix.


Also for those of you missing the BBC game Elite have a look at EVE as this is the accepted reincarnation. Available as a 2 week demo which is great fun.

[Villes Gilleneuve]

Are you comparing a game that came out 4 years ago on PC and third generation consoles with someone written for the PC 386/486, Atari ST and Amiga 20 years ago?

No. That's why I wrote I never liked Crammond's games. Crammond versus Papyrus in the same era: no contest.

Edited by Villes Gilleneuve, 12 October 2010 - 17:24.

[Dunder]

If Crammond released a GP5 with unlicense teams/drivers I can imagine it would be pretty popular.

Same issue as Codemasters have though.
It would be popular with sim racers and modders but not with the masses.

[BullHead]

I don't like computer games and racing games perse, as a few might know... but I really want a GP5 if it could ever happen...

[Mr2s]

I would happily go back in time and play GP1 again over the modem with some lads from work, all day and all night lol. That game has left a lasting impression on me despite things moving very quickly in the 90s. Obviously I wouldn't want to take with me any knowledge of todays games. I do feel de-sensitized over wow factor today though so doubt Id be as excited over GP5.

[Tenmantaylor]

The thing that Crammond did so well was to recreate the experience of driving an F1 car in the F1 world championship. Being part of the title battle, visiting the unique locations, setting the car up over a weekend, practice, qual and the then the race. You didn't have to be an amazing sim racer to do well and compete but as you got better you could tailor the experience. The driving aids were setup in such a way that the car would almost be driving itself in a way that no modern sim has ever successfully bettered IMO even if the physics engines have moved on beyond compare. GP1/2 allowed the skill level of the person driving to become irrelevant and enjoy the experience of being an F1 driver in a believable (back then anyway) 3D game. These were crammonds biggest acheivements and something that even the best modern sims hav't recreated. This was the ethos of Crammond's games, an all immersive experience rather than a physics orgy.

I would love Crammond to team up with either Kaemner or ISI/Rfactor guys. Use their tech/physics knowledge and Crammonds 'racing game experience' knowledge. It probably wouldn't be a nice environment to work in, I get the impression Crammond is a visionary who likes to have control over all elements of development but I'm sure it would be amazing if it worked.

Perhaps Crammond is the missing link for Codemasters. GP5 is not an option anyway because of the licensing. CM hire GC and perhaps for F1 2011 things will be a lot better

Not a bad idea but I get the impression his skills and attention to detail wouldn't be appreciated at Codemasters. CM seem all too happy to gloss over details that are core to a 'sim' these days to make sure they hit their deadlines.

Edited by Tenmantaylor, 10 November 2010 - 15:34.

[MaxScelerate]

Funny as that's exactly what I disliked in GP3 (not talking about older titles..). To me it always felt as if AI was driving my car on rails and that, if I tried real hard, I could somewhat get it to pull a bit left or right for an overtake, or a canned spin.

Felt like playing Dragon's Lair arcade game (where you just basically "steered" a pre-scripted cartoon around a very linear storyline).

Removed all sorts of aids although I understand some of them may have stuck because at that time I used a gamepad (with two analogue sticks) for driving.

[noikeee]

The GP games had a bit of a funky way of handling keyboards (possibly gamepads as well), it made you stick to the driving line like you were almost glued to it. Although it kinda worked as it made it easy to drive and challenging. With a steering wheel, turning off a particular aid made it feel completely different.

The physics weren't incredibly amazing but the gameplay as whole was a hell of a lot more solid (for the time) than this super shiny Codemasters crap. It was the perfect sim/arcade mix as in you could just chill, ignore the technical part and play it like a game; or you could go crazy on it with all those setup options plus measure yourself against a fabulous AI system that I am yet to see bettered by any game afterwards.

[mkoscevic]

You got it guys; driving a full season with all practices, Q, races, excellent environment for new drivers, superb AI levels for various skill levels, rain/drying track... it was a pure joy to drive for hours back in GP3. Tenmantaylor made the point, the whole experience of F1 was so complete with all those elements involved - simply stunning.

Wait a minute... why i just downloaded GP3 .ISO

[rolf123]

GP games were incredible. I also used to play at least 2 hours per day. I had a counter that would add up automatically all my game time and I must have spent at least a few months of my entire life playing that game...

It was perfect for keyboard. I didn't mind the steering assist and throttle assist because it was a great way to allow digital inputs and get immersed in the game. Besides, steering is hardly where tenths of seconds are gained in F1. It's all about throttle and braking. And the throttle had no more skill in the days of TC anyway.

As far as the brakes go, sure they were digital, but you could still do cadence braking, for example.

Best part about this game was the way you could relentlessly pursue someone, gaining maybe tenth or two tenths per lap. I didn't see anything else that allowed you this level of consistency for maybe 15 years after this game, till the simulations started to come out.

And the AI still kicks ass. Real classic overtakes in this game galore.

[minardifans]

GP2 was a revelation for me. I wanted an F1 game so the first one I bought (because of the flashy case) was Prost GP! What a crock of **** it was. So I went back and bought GP2, an older game with older graphics and was glued.

One thing I loved with GP2 was making my own carsets and painting my own car liveries.

[Mat]

Agreed with all the comments about GP2/GP4 (I thought GP3 was a slight let down).

I used to download all the early 90s carsets and pretend I was Jean Alesi, making him multiple world champion and giving him the career he never had! Also used to love putting myself in Irvine's seat at Ferrari and trying my best to embarrass schuey by moving over for him during the races.

Those games were awesome, and for me, started to lose its spark when the rules in real F1 changed so dramatically (Safety Cars, mandated tyre stops, different qualy rules, etc) it was hard to keep the game 'accurate'.

iRacing has taken over as top of the heap, but nobody recreated the sense of being a part of the F1 World Championship as did the Crammond games.

[intothepits]

GP4 had a brilliant feel to the cars. Felt as if you wasn't just driving on air like a lot of F1 games, but you could feel the weight of the car stuck to the road in a very nice way.

[BullHead]

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

total ecstacy.

[masterhit]

Thanks for the great sims over the years Geoff.

Hopefully some sensible venture capitalist will give the guy an oppportunity to carry on.

Edited by masterhit, 19 December 2010 - 02:35.