The best driver of the first decade of the 21st century
#1
Posted 02 October 2010 - 11:57
As the usual perceprions of decades and centuries differ by a year (the century started in 2001, the decade, by the popular although wrong, perception started in 2000), the choice can make a difference of one very important season - the season 2000 that was one of the Schumacher's best.
Anyway, let's then take into account all the seasons since 2000. Admittedly, the picture will be more clear after 4 more races, butI don't have the patience to wait :-)
Chronologically (by the WDC titles):
Candidate no. 1: Michael Schumacher
Schumacher participated in 8 seasons of this clumsily-chosen 11-year period, fully dominating the first part with 5 consecutive titles, unprecedented feat and the one that will not be repeated shortly. The best driver in the best car was the usual perception of those years and hardly anything more could be added to it. Even within the favourable circumstances (that he himself partly helped to build), it took quite a some persistence and consistently hard working to stay at the top for so many years. The results cannot be ignored, the great drives and fights as well. What could be ignored is the 2010 season - IMHO, he is simply way too old for modern F1 (the natural generation change arrived in 2006) and it's a sign of bravery that he returned indeed. Not the fairest of drivers, but paid his price for the wrong deeds.
Candidate no. 2: Fernando Alonso
The youngest single and double WDC to date, the youngest pole-sitter and winner of his day, Alonso undoubtedly made his mark in the first decade of the 21st century, having competed in 9 seasons. He gave hints in 2003, with a great opportunistic victory in Hungary and then really made his mark in 2005, winning a seson long battle for the title. The only thing missing - beating an on-form Schumacher in a good car - came immediately after, with a wonderful championship season of 2006. In 2007, he changed teams and incredibly came within a point or two of taking another title, showing his weak human side in the admittedly unfavourable circumstances (that were, albeit in a small part) party his own doing. The win in Japan 2008 reminded us again on what he can do and now, after a shaky start, his driving is again impeccable and unmatchable for the most of his peers.
Candidate no. 3: Lewis Hamilton
Competing in only 4 seasons of the period, Hamilton is included here because he really exploded on the F1 scene: fought for the title in his 1st season (and did way better than expected, with a slight help of being slightly favoured by his team), duly won the title in his second (with a car that was not dominant at best), fought hard with a bad car in 2009 and again maintained the incredibly high level of driving in 2010. Back in his driver days, Prost once in the mid-1980s said something on the lines of: "I am not the ultimate F1 driver because such a driver should be able to start winning almost as soon as he steps into a F1 car". So far, Hamilton came closest to this definition and has probably many more seasons in himself. He may well become the first choice for the best driver of the second decade.
Obviously, I relied on hard statistical achievments as the main criteria (hence the choice of those three drivers), but tried to put it in perspective, as Alonso and Hamilton never really enjoyed the car advantage Schumacher sometimes had.
The future (2nd decade - see you in 10 years :-)) promises a lot, with Vettel, Kubica, Sutil and some other guys having the potential to dominate, in the right circumstances.
So, let's vote!
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#2
Posted 02 October 2010 - 12:00
#3
Posted 02 October 2010 - 12:09
These are since Australia 2000, and by percentage rather than numbers (those are added in brackets) to balance out the fact not all drivers competed during the entire decade.
Wins
- Michael Schumacher - 21.2% (56)
- Lewis Hamilton - 20.9% (14)
- Fernando Alonso - 16.2% (25)
- Sebastian Vettel - 12.1% (7)
- Kimi Raikkonen - 11.5% (18)
- Lewis Hamilton - 26.9% (18)
- Sebastian Vettel - 20.7% (12)
- Michael Schumacher - 17.1% (45)
- Juan-Pablo Montoya - 13.8% (13)
- Fernando Alonso - 13.0% (20)
- Lewis Hamilton - 50.8% (34)
- Kimi Raikkonen - 39.8% (62)
- Fernando Alonso - 39.0% (60)
- Juan-Pablo Montoya - 31.9% (30)
- Michael Schumacher - 31.4% (83)
#4
Posted 02 October 2010 - 12:11
#5
Posted 02 October 2010 - 12:28
Schumacher and then in no particular order - Hamilton, Raikkonen, Alonso.
These 4 dominated the decade
#6
Posted 02 October 2010 - 13:00
#7
Posted 02 October 2010 - 13:10
...oh you said best?
Reluctantly I'd have to go with Schumacher. He was simply untouchable for the first half of the decade.
#8
Posted 02 October 2010 - 13:28
#9
Posted 02 October 2010 - 13:38
I have to agree with this.2000-2009
Schumacher and then in no particular order - Hamilton, Raikkonen, Alonso.
These 4 dominated the decade
#10
Posted 02 October 2010 - 13:43
#11
Posted 02 October 2010 - 14:26
Points
1. M Schumacher 799p.2. Räikkönen 579p.3. Alonso 577p.4. Barrichello 530p.5. Button 327p.6. Massa 320p.7. Coulthard 314p.8. Montoya 307p.9. R Schumacher 267p.10. Hamilton 256p.
Wins
1. M Schumacher 562. Alonso 213. Räikkönen 194. Barrichello 11 Massa 11 Hamilton 117. Coulthard 7 Montoya 7 Button 710. Häkkinen 6 R Schumacher 6
Pole positions
1. M Schumacher 452. Alonso 183. Hamilton 174. Räikkönen 165. Massa 156. Montoya 137. Barrichello 128. Button 79. R Schumacher 610. Häkkinen 5 Vettel 5
Podiums
1. M Schumacher 832. Barrichello 62 Räikkönen 624. Alonso 535. Coulthard 326. Montoya 307. Massa 288. Hamilton 279. Button 2410. R Schumacher 20
Fastest laps
1. M Schumacher 372. Räikkönen 353. Barrichello 174. Alonso 135. Häkkinen 12 Montoya 12 Massa 128. R Schumacher 79. Coulthard 610. Hamilton 3 Vettel 3 Webber 3
Schumacher is in a class of his own. Alonso, Räikkönen, Hamilton, Massa, Montoya...all very good.
#12
Posted 02 October 2010 - 14:48
I tend to agree2000-2009
Schumacher and then in no particular order - Hamilton, Raikkonen, Alonso.
These 4 dominated the decade
#13
Posted 02 October 2010 - 14:50
2000-2009
Schumacher and then in no particular order - Hamilton, Raikkonen, Alonso.
These 4 dominated the decade
There's the answer.
#14
Posted 02 October 2010 - 15:32
#15
Posted 02 October 2010 - 15:39
Schumacher, no doubt on that.
#16
Posted 02 October 2010 - 15:47
Also, Alonso and Hamilton both only started their careers in this decade, whereas 2000 coincided with Schumacher reaching his peak, and so I find the comparison rather irrelevant, a bit like comparing Senna and Schumacher in the years 1990-1995, they were at totally different stages of their career.
Better to wait 5-10 years and then compare all three of them as drivers.
Edited by topical, 02 October 2010 - 15:50.
#17
Posted 02 October 2010 - 17:20
Schumacher
Alonso
Raikkonen
Hamilton
Button
Barrichello
Massa
Hakkinen
Coulthard
Montoya
Edited by johnmhinds, 02 October 2010 - 17:21.
#18
Posted 02 October 2010 - 19:17
#19
Posted 02 October 2010 - 19:38
I doesnt really. You can also take into account the opposition teams being weak and not having a team mate who would race him. I think Schumacher was most impressive in the late 90s tbh.Whatever you think of his performance this season, 5 consecutive WDCs mean that Schumacher is the only candidate.
Personally I think its close between Alonso and Schumacher, but I voted Alonso.
#21
Posted 02 October 2010 - 19:47
#22
Posted 02 October 2010 - 19:52
In my opinion, Hamilton hasn't been in F1 long enough to be rated higher than Alonso and Raikkonen. Raikkonen may have had a bad season, but the rest of his career was outstanding and 2008 cannot take anything away from that.
#23
Posted 02 October 2010 - 20:15
1. Schumacher.
2. Alonso.
3. Räikkönen.
4. Hamilton.
5. Montoya.
6. Massa.
7. Häkkinen.
8. Vettel.
9. Barrichello.
10. Button.
#24
Posted 02 October 2010 - 20:17
2. Michael Schumacher
3. Jimmie Johnson
Edited by Watkins74, 02 October 2010 - 21:05.
#25
Posted 02 October 2010 - 20:40
1. Sébastien Loeb - certainly in the running.
2. Michael Schumacher - as above.
3. Jimmy Johnson - never heard of him. Sounds like a porn star.
#26
Posted 02 October 2010 - 21:03
There was a thread a while ago of "your top 10 of the decade." This was mine:
1. Schumacher.
2. Alonso.
3. Räikkönen.
4. Hamilton.
5. Montoya.
This.
#27
Posted 02 October 2010 - 21:10
2) Alonso
3) Raikkonen
4) Hamilton
5) Hakkinen (I know he wasn't in F1 for long in the 21st century but he was an awesome driver hence only 5th)
Edited by Mandzipop, 02 October 2010 - 21:11.
#28
Posted 03 October 2010 - 00:43
5 titles, closely missing on another one. Alonso and Hamilton are great, but they still have a long way to go to get close and it wont happen in the same decade anyway if it ever happens.
#29
Posted 03 October 2010 - 00:44
I doesnt really. You can also take into account the opposition teams being weak and not having a team mate who would race him. I think Schumacher was most impressive in the late 90s tbh.
Personally I think its close between Alonso and Schumacher, but I voted Alonso.
The effort that it takes for anyone at the highest level of any international sport to win consecutively over a period of YEARS makes Schumacher the most remarkable racing driver in history. He took the challenge of a downed Ferrari team and turned it into a dominant force that is greater than anything witnessed in f1.
To place drivers such as Hamilton or Raikkonen in the same category, or even Alonso, is just demeaning to Schumacher.
During the first decade there was absolutely no other driver in the same category. Everyone else is just in second place - and as Ron Dennis likes to say: second place is just the first of the losers.
Edited by SaintDevote, 03 October 2010 - 00:46.
#30
Posted 03 October 2010 - 01:11
Schumacher the most remarkable racing driver in history.
Ouch aye, my history book mentions people like Fangio, Clark, Stewart et al... And history books, especially about Schumacher, are still being written... So, if not Alonso, Räikönnen or Montoya, what about Nico Rosberg...?
#31
Posted 03 October 2010 - 01:20
Michael Schumacher hands down.
#32
Posted 03 October 2010 - 01:35
Because I do.
#33
Posted 03 October 2010 - 01:38
maybe we should just discount those years then ?Anyone else thinks that if Alonso, Hamilton or Raikkonenn drove for Ferrari in 2000-2004 they'd have won 4 WDC in a row too?
Because I do.
anyone else think if alonso , hamilton , schumacher , raikonenn drove for brawn last year they would have won that WDC to?
hey we could do this for every year and make out WDC is only luck of having the best car
#34
Posted 03 October 2010 - 01:42
#35
Posted 03 October 2010 - 01:42
It all goes to "The best driver of the first decade of the 21st century past MS"
#36
Posted 03 October 2010 - 01:51
Anyone else thinks that if Alonso, Hamilton or Raikkonenn drove for Ferrari in 2000-2004 they'd have won 4 WDC in a row too?
Because I do.
Dunno. Rubens drove for Ferrari all five of those years, and not a single WDC for him...
#37
Posted 03 October 2010 - 02:53
Edited by Cenotaph, 03 October 2010 - 02:53.
#38
Posted 03 October 2010 - 03:01
1) Schumacher
2) Alonso
3) Raikkonen
4) Hamilton
5) Hakkinen (I know he wasn't in F1 for long in the 21st century but he was an awesome driver hence only 5th)
Used your list for the base
switched 2 & 3 around & added Monty
1)Schumacher
2)Raikkonen
3)Alonso
4)Hamilton
5)Hakkinen
6)Montoya
#39
Posted 03 October 2010 - 03:18
Well, I do like Rubens, but even Button beat him...Dunno. Rubens drove for Ferrari all five of those years, and not a single WDC for him...
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#40
Posted 03 October 2010 - 03:22
My point was, ok Schumacher had a great car those years, no other car could compete with it yet we are using these WDC as a benchmark to compare drivers and I ask myself, is it really a good mark to compare drivers?maybe we should just discount those years then ?
anyone else think if alonso , hamilton , schumacher , raikonenn drove for brawn last year they would have won that WDC to?
hey we could do this for every year and make out WDC is only luck of having the best car
Well, we use that as we've got nothing else, just team-mate comparasions and our single point of view.
I'll ask again... if all the drivers in the decade had 0 WDC and the same ammount of points, would still Schumacher be rated as it is just for how he races and how he performs against team-mate, etcetera?
#41
Posted 03 October 2010 - 03:58
Anyone else thinks that if Alonso, Hamilton or Raikkonenn drove for Ferrari in 2000-2004 they'd have won 4 WDC in a row too?
Because I do.
Yeah I think they would have too but MS and everyone at Ferrari worked hard for years before the car became dominant, all those championships in a row the end result.
It's arguable if Ferrari could have risen to the same dominance if the other drivers joined in 96 instead of MS who was also joined abit later by Rory Byrne and Ross Brawn. Besides MS could have probably won 4 in a row at Benetton if he had stayed.
Edited by iakhtar, 03 October 2010 - 04:03.
#42
Posted 03 October 2010 - 04:45
#43
Posted 03 October 2010 - 07:03
and jimmie johnson is really good
#44
Posted 03 October 2010 - 07:42
#45
Posted 03 October 2010 - 07:56
Anyone else thinks that if Alonso, Hamilton or Raikkonenn drove for Ferrari in 2000-2004 they'd have won 4 WDC in a row too?
Because I do.
Quite possibly...
Edited by topical, 03 October 2010 - 08:34.
#46
Posted 03 October 2010 - 09:10
I tend to agree but I decided to make this an exclusively F1 poll.I don't think the poll should be limited to these choices.
Of course, I could have given a more appropriate title to the poll....
#47
Posted 03 October 2010 - 09:19
The effort that it takes for anyone at the highest level of any international sport to win consecutively over a period of YEARS makes Schumacher the most remarkable racing driver in history. He took the challenge of a downed Ferrari team and turned it into a dominant force that is greater than anything witnessed in f1.
To place drivers such as Hamilton or Raikkonen in the same category, or even Alonso, is just demeaning to Schumacher.
During the first decade there was absolutely no other driver in the same category. Everyone else is just in second place - and as Ron Dennis likes to say: second place is just the first of the losers.
I'm not sure he did it single handedly...
That said it would be very interesting to hear what brawn would say if asked, 'would ferrari have been as successful if everything was exactly the same but you replaced schumi with alonso/kimi/lewis?'
Edited by robefc, 03 October 2010 - 09:23.
#48
Posted 03 October 2010 - 09:23
I think Kimi would have won 5 WDC in a row if he drove for Ferrari in 2000-2004.Anyone else thinks that if Alonso, Hamilton or Raikkonenn drove for Ferrari in 2000-2004 they'd have won 4 WDC in a row too?
Because I do.
#49
Posted 03 October 2010 - 09:25
well, schumacher is an easy choice if you really wanna know who was the best. i bet even some of the fanboys of the other two can see this.
5 titles, closely missing on another one. Alonso and Hamilton are great, but they still have a long way to go to get close and it wont happen in the same decade anyway if it ever happens.
We'll probaby not get the chance to see them in a dominant car for 5 of the next 10 years...I hope not for the sports sake but interesting to see the stats if they do get one...
#50
Posted 03 October 2010 - 09:45
Well, I do like Rubens, but even Button beat him...
Rubens performance was limited in quite many races and that was the reason, why he didn t finish higher...
Australia - throttle problem at start
Malaysia - gearbox change, losing 5 places on the grid
Bahrain - 3 pitstops compared to Button s 2
Spain - again 3 pitstops compared to Button s 2
Turkey - throttle problem at start, then gearbox failure
Germany - 4,5 seconds longer pitstop then Button s
Hungary - mechanical failure during Q2 - a reason for Massa s incident
Belgium - throttle problem, then oil leak
Singapore - gearbox change, losing 5 places on the grid
Brazil - puncture, additional stop
So, you can count how many points has Barrichello lost... Strange, that this year, he is one of the most reliable drivers on the grid with only one wing failure in Monaco grand prix...