26 replies to this topic

[LordAston]

Hello to all Motorsport fans

I'm new here but I would like some help tracking down some information on Woolf Barnato.

The reason I ask is because I rung up English Heritage to enquire about a Blue Plaque for him. They seemed interested but only one little problem I do not know where he grew up. The only information I have managed to get is from "The Bentley Era" by Nicolas Foulkes saying that he was born in Spencer House, then when his father died lived in a flat with his mother near Marble Arch then it seems to be not clear where he went except the Ardenrun Palace.

With help from someone on Ten-Tenths they said he lived in 'Kingsmead' NW3 but they weren't sure of the dates he was there.

I need to find some dates that he was at said house.

Any help given would be most appricated thanks

Lord Aston

[monoposto]

In 1918 he was living at No. 39 Elsworthy Road, by Primrose Hill, Hampstead, North London

Source : "Spreading my wings" by his daughter Diana Barnato Walker

[f1steveuk]

In 1918 he was living at No. 39 Elsworthy Road, by Primrose Hill, Hampstead, North London

Source : "Spreading my wings" by his daughter Diana Barnato Walker

That's the house where Diana was born. Her parents parted four years later, and she spent her childhood between her mother’s Hampstead home and her father’s which was in Lingfield, Surrey.

[Allan Lupton]

IIRC there is a lot more in "Spreding myWings" about the family history of Woolf and his father "Barny" Barnato, but I've no time to look at present.
The other place to look is the W O Bentley Memorial Foundation at the Bentley Drivers Club.
It's here

[monoposto]

That's the house where Diana was born. Her parents parted four years later, and she spent her childhood between her mother’s Hampstead home and her father’s which was in Lingfield, Surrey.

The Lingfield home being the aforementioned 'Ardenrun'.

He was later to live at 'Ridgemead' on the edge of Englefield Green, three miles south of Windsor.

'Ridgemead' was built for Woolf Barnato in the 'California Mission Style' and designed by Robert Lutyens. It was completed in 1938

Edited by monoposto, 06 October 2010 - 18:56.

[D-Type]

Wikipedia cites biographies on historic racing which says he was born in South Africa and came to England at the age of two in 1897 and on cricinfo which says he kept wicket for Surrey on six occasions (I never knew he was a cricketer). Interesting but not helping to answer the question.

Edited by D-Type, 03 April 2011 - 18:50.

[Paul Parker]

The Lingfield home being the aforementioned 'Ardenrun'.

He was later to live at 'Ridgemead' on the edge of Englefield Green, three miles south of Windsor.

'Ridgemead' was built for Woolf Barnato in the 'California Mission Style' and designed by Robert Lutyens. It was completed in 1938

If I recall correctly Ardenrun burnt down some time during the 1930s.

[Vitesse2]

Wikipedia cites biographies on [url="http://<a%20href="http://www.historicracing.com/driversAlpha.cfm?fullText=2555&AlphaIndex=B"%20target="_blank">http://www.historicr...x=B</a>"]historic racing[/url] which says he was born in South Africa and came to England at the age of two in 1897 and on cricinfo which says he played kept wicket for Surrey on six occasions (I never knew he was a cricketer). Interesting but not helping to answer the question.

I can state with certainty that the former assertion is wrong, Duncan. His birth on September 27th 1895 at Spencer House in London was announced in The Times. 1897 was the year his father died.

[elansprint72]

I can state with certainty that the former assertion is wrong, Duncan. His birth on September 27th 1895 at Spencer House in London was announced in The Times. 1897 was the year his father died.

You can't believe everything you read in a Rupert Murdoch newspaper.

[D-Type]

I can state with certainty that the former assertion is wrong, Duncan. His birth on September 27th 1895 at Spencer House in London was announced in The Times. 1897 was the year his father died.

I misinterpreted what I read. What it actually said when referring to Barney Barnato was "many years later, on returning to England by ship with his two year old son Woolf, he disappeared over the side." And I took it to mean that Woolf was born in South Africa

[Roger Clark]

Wikipedia cites biographies on historic racing which says he was born in South Africa and came to England at the age of two in 1897 and on cricinfo which says he played kept wicket for Surrey on six occasions (I never knew he was a cricketer). Interesting but not helping to answer the question.

His obituary appeared in Wisden 1948:

Barnato, Capt Woolf, died in a nursing home in London on July 27, 1948, aged 53. Best known for long distance motor-car racing, he ocassionally kept wicket for Surrey inthe seasons 1928-30. A son of Mr Barney Barnato, the well-known diamond merchant, he was educated at Charterhouse School and Cambridge.

[Allan Lupton]

The reason I ask is because I rung up English Heritage to enquire about a Blue Plaque for him.

Are you looking for an existing blue plaque or seeking to put one up somewhere?

[LordAston]

Are you looking for an existing blue plaque or seeking to put one up somewhere?

I'm actually looking to get one put up.

[Allan Lupton]

I'm actually looking to get one put up.

Ah, can one ask where? Ridgemead possibly or 39 Elsworthy Road?
Ardenrun Place (not Palace!) was burned down in 1933 of course. Digressing slightly, I was amused to see that Clive Aslet ("The Last Country Houses", 1982) tells us that it was built by "Ernest Newton for Woolf Barnato, a racing motorist" in 1906-9. Since, as we've noted above, WB was born in 1895 either Aslet is wrong or WB must be the youngest client ever for a house of that size and quality. Quite young to have been a racing motorist for that matter, but as he became one and is well-known for that, I'll allow Aslet the point.

Edited by Allan Lupton, 06 October 2010 - 22:19.

[LordAston]

I will put it forward to be on 39 Elsworthy Road.

Ardenrun Place (sorry about earlier error - my mistake) quoting from ''The Bentley Era''

Ardenrun was Hans Henry's country place, although he was rarely there; his frail constitution and immense fortune militated against spending too much time in England so he retired to a villa on the French Riviera in Menton. His brother already had one stately home, Tyringham Hall in Buckinghamshire, designed by John Sloane, and had no need of another. The newly built and splendidly appointed Ardenrun was surplas to family requirements.

The advertisment, placed by 'Messrs Trollop, Estate and Land Agents' in Country Life on 15th November 1919.

[Tim Murray]

Hans Henry, I take it, was the banker Hans Henry König, who is listed in this reference as the owner of Ardenrun Place in 1912. So all the many other references, including the book mentioned by Allan, which say the house was built for Barnato are wrong. I assume that Barnato then bought the place as a result of the 1919 advert mentioned by Lord Aston.

[britishtrident]

Barney Barnato was a minor chracter in the largely forgotten docu-drama "Rhodes" on the the life of cecil Rhodes -- forgotten mainly because it was a bit out of fashion politically.

A couple of interesting links giving info on famous members of the Barnato family

http://www.jewisheas...om/barnato.html

http://www.respectan...Barnato_Walker/

Edited by britishtrident, 07 October 2010 - 13:46.

[Hieronymus]

I presume that Woolf's mother was the former, Fanny Bees, from Cape Town. Some controversy about her heritage a few years ago and surviving members of the Barnato clan wanted to take the SABC to court due to the way she was portrayed in a local television series.

http://152.111.1.87/.../04/19/6/6.html

[Gregor Marshall]

Ah, can one ask where?

Or can one ask why?
Is there one for WO? (rhetorical)
I know exactly where WO and his wife lived when WO passed away (my step grand-father and mother) and I don’t recall people eulogising his life as much as Wolf (super-charger) Barnato’s life.

[LordAston]

Or can one ask why?
Is there one for WO? (rhetorical)
I know exactly where WO and his wife lived when WO passed away (my step grand-father and mother) and I don’t recall people eulogising his life as much as Wolf (super-charger) Barnato’s life.

There is a plaque to Bentley (Car) and its birthplace. http://www.plaquesof...uk/page162.html

But when I was in my teens I read about the famous Blue Train run and Woolf stood out as this larger than life character to me who should be honored. And I feel he fits English Heritage's procedure for a plaque as he did bring prestige to Britain and Bentley with his hat-trick of Le Mans victories.

I know for a fact that Graham Hill and Sir Henry Segrave both have Blue Plaques.

http://www.plaquesof...uk/page834.html Graham Hill

http://www.plaquesof...uk/page2312.htm Sir Henry Segrave

[arttidesco]

I believe this is the first time I have come across an open discussion about the blue tablets that seemingly come out of nowhere.

What's the process for getting one installed ?

Are there any criteria for consideration and selection ?

Who has the final say ?

I really like the idea of connecting names with places but to me it all seems a bit random, for example many departed pop stars used to hang out 90 Wardour Street site of the Marquee Club ?

[LordAston]

I believe this is the first time I have come across an open discussion about the blue tablets that seemingly come out of nowhere.

What's the process for getting one installed ?

Are there any criteria for consideration and selection ?

Who has the final say ?

Type English Heritage Blue Plaques into google and you should get a link to their page describing the process.

I'd just like to say a Thank you to ALL who have helped or given support so far.

Edited by LordAston, 09 October 2010 - 13:14.

[arttidesco]

Type English Heritage Blue Plaques into google and you should get a link to their page describing the process.

I'd just like to say a Thank you to ALL who have helped or given support so far.

Cheers

Good luck with getting the plaque up :-)

[LordAston]

Just an update to the situation. I haven't unfortuantley been able to get much done on this since I first mentioned it. With all sorts of other things going on in my life I've had to put this on the back burner for the time being. Will update when I send off info to English Heritage.

[Lawton]

He had a flat in Grosvenor Square for many years , number 49 I think ? I have seen it quoted some years ago admittedly that it was the biggest flat in London , I think it was two flats knocked together .

[LordAston]

To all who were wondering what became of this here is the answer. Due to problems outside of my control and English Heritage funding and also serious medical problems. The later is being dealt with but the former one may take some time due to their backlog they are clearing. I hope that I will recover enough to send off. I will try and keep you lot posted on how it goes. But as you can see by my posting habits I'm not always around.

[Vitesse2]

He had a flat in Grosvenor Square for many years , number 49 I think ? I have seen it quoted some years ago admittedly that it was the biggest flat in London , I think it was two flats knocked together .

Phone book records on Ancestry say it was number 50. But if it was two knocked together, maybe the entrance to 49 was blocked up?

 

The Lingfield home being the aforementioned 'Ardenrun'.

He was later to live at 'Ridgemead' on the edge of Englefield Green, three miles south of Windsor.

'Ridgemead' was built for Woolf Barnato in the 'California Mission Style' and designed by Robert Lutyens. It was completed in 1938

Ridgemead is the address shown on the probate record. He left an enormous £811775 12s 10d: - the equivalent of somewhere north of £25 million today.

 

There are also sheaves of travel records on Ancestry relating to Woolf's wanderings.