79 replies to this topic

[Cardenas]

Half a year ago I got painted my bike helmet, I wanted the dbr1 green, finally i got this....

It was a code from Glasurit paints. I'll try to find it.




edit.

maybe this could help: http://www.classicca...h/find_my_shade

Edited by Cardenas, 25 January 2011 - 18:29.

[Macca]

Here is a photo of two of my Aston models; the DB7 is a poundshop toy and the DBR1 is the exquisite 1/64 by Shelby Miniatures from last year.



The colour of the DB7 is about the same as Vauxhall's lighter metallic green that I may have mentioned once or twice before as being on a lot of Astras, and the colour of the DBR1 is close to the darker version Vauxhall. Mind you, I'm not saying the colours of the models are ones worn by works Astons............

Paul M

[Barry Boor]

I took my Chris Nixon book 'Sports Car Heaven' to a garage today and did another colour search. Vauxhall Jade Green paint is arriving tomorrow.

[Kitkent]

The recent DBR9's,well Prodrive works anyway were an Aston colour- Middlesex green,which I did get a spraycan of and not from Halfords!

[Barry Boor]

I guess you knew this was coming.....

My Vauxhall Jade Green is as near to blue as any dark green can be. Just nothing like the colour I want. I'm at the end of my tether. I just can't believe all this is happening. The paint slip for the Jade Green looked quite good but the paint is just too blue and IMHO too dark. I don't get it. I think I might as well try the Aston Middlesex Green that Kitkent quotes.

It can't be any worse than what I've had already.

[Kitkent]

[quote name='Barry Boor' date='Feb 13 2011, 10:40' post='4840423']
I guess you knew this was coming.....

My Vauxhall Jade Green is as near to blue as any dark green can be. Just nothing like the colour I want. I'm at the end of my tether. I just can't believe all this is happening. The paint slip for the Jade Green looked quite good but the paint is just too blue and IMHO too dark. I don't get it. I think I might as well try the Aston Middlesex Green that Kitkent quotes.

It can't be any worse than what I've had already.
Barry,the Middlesex green is PPG code AST0956 if you decide on this one. The Jade green I have is FORD not Vauxhall,a Hycote spraycan from an independent car spares shop.
I just had a look through Grand Prix Models Aston Martin kits and they are all sorts of greens! Profil 24 have just made a 59 LM winner pre painted in Ford Jade green. Then Jade miniatures cars are all darker including the F1 car,I don't know what colour they recommend though... I had to respray a 1/18 C -Type for someone a whila ago and was pulling my hair trying to match the Jaguar metallic green colour;when I did press him for the colour name he said 'oh its an Aston Metallic green.'! Its not easy. Chris.

[Macca]

Barry, I think you may have fallen foul of car manufacturers' tendency to use the same colour name for different shades - there are at least 3 metallic greens used on Astras in recent years, and the darkest is indeed quite blue, while there is a light shade that is called geen which is entirely blue to my eyes:
http://imganuncios.m...04841406293.jpg

I think this is the darkest of the other three:
http://www.desperate...87724589551.jpg

But the shade I had in mind is this:
http://www.motormani...s/vectra 22.JPG

Paul M

[Barry Boor]

I think you have hit the thin metallic fixing accessory right on its head, Paul.

I, undoubtedly, have the darker of those three. It's the third one I was hoping for!

I'll try Paints4U this time.

However, are all these three colours actually called Jade Green? I have brought up Jade Green on Paints4U but the coding they show is exactly the same as that on the can of spray paint I obtained last week. So I'm not sure that ordering from P4U is going to make any difference.

Edited by Barry Boor, 14 February 2011 - 09:36.

[Barry Boor]

That's it! I went into Halfords and bought, off the rack, a can of Ford Forest Green. It's not absolutely right but I've had enough and I'm not going to look any more.

A picture of the two factory cars will appear here once I've built them up again.

Thanks to everyone who has tried to help in this lunacy.

[Macca]

http://scratchbuildg...db3s-coupe.html


Paul M

[Barry Boor]

Ha!

[Barry Boor]

O.K, you will be pleased to know that this is the final post I shall be making on this thread (probably!)

This may be nothing like the colour that these cars were originally but this is what they are going to be for the duration of my 1959 season:

[Macca]

They look pretty damn' good to me!

http://diomedia.asia...imageId=3160527

Paul M

[Barry Boor]

Wow, maybe you are right, Macca.

May have looked even better if they had printed that picture of yours the right way around!

[Rocky2]

An image Paul was trying to point to:

http://img137.images...ston59roynl.jpg
© Heritage Images

A practice for 1959 Dutch Grand Prix at Zandvoort. Roy Salvadori driving an Aston Martin DBR4/250 '01' on David Brown's Grand Prix debut. With engine overheating he would become the race's first retiree. While the race itself would end with maiden World Drivers' Championship victory for B.R.M. and the only one for their front engine projects.

[RobertE]

Barry, I think that the colour you want was called 'Aqua Verda' and carried the contemporary ICI paint code of 3414. It was certainly listed as an option on the 1959 AM road cars and fits well with the colour footage of DBRs I have seen. It's also quite close to your die-cast model, but the matter of 'scaling' is significant in the light of the relatively crude way in which metallic paint was prepared. Literally, with metal flakes.

I think that it's as close as you'll probably get...

Too often, 'Aston Martin Racing Green' is mistaken for a colour known as 'California Sage' (ICI 2629). No!

Edited by RobertE, 20 May 2011 - 18:22.

[Barry Boor]

As we have said, Robert, ICI paint codes mean nothing to anyone these days. There seems to be no correlation between their numbers and modern paint codes.

[RobertE]

I'll be seeing my paint man next week, as it happens; I can well recall, not that long ago, seeing a trade brochure which listed paint code equivalents. But I gave over the ICI paint code for a particular colour with which to repaint m'DB4 and, as far as I can see it's spot on. I also have reason to talk with Newport Pagnell soon, but from the various presentations I have seen, they may have put their foot in it already...

[swintex]

Barry, perhaps you should should ask HWM Aston Martin what colour this is.

SCM seems happy with it.

Best wishes
Richard

[Macca]

Apparently you can only have a Cygnet if you buy a 'proper' AM as well - wonder what Sir SCM got, or whether they made an exception.

Paul M

[SWB]

Barry, perhaps you should should ask HWM Aston Martin what colour this is.

SCM seems happy with it.

Best wishes
Richard

Its Aston Martin 1140 Racing Green, aka Almond Green

Steve

[rapide]

I've been studying Aston Martins for the last twenty years or so and this colour thing continues to rumble on. The fact is that they used whatever was on the shelf at the time. I also had the same email from Neil Murray. (By the tone of it he was sick and tired of beig asked!) The simple answer to all this is that the early DB2s were painted Cadillac Green. For that use BRG, nobody will know the difference. The DB3, DB3s and DBR1s were "painted" Almond Green Metallic. Now this really is where it get complicated as in fact they were not painted at all. Or at least in the true sense of the word. They were "painted" with varnish with a green pigment. My guess is that the metallic effect was in fact the aluminium showing through the varnish, but it's just a guess. All modern images of the DBR1 show an incorrect colour. I believe the colour they used on "restored" cars was/is Project Green. However a very simple solution to the Almond green problem is to use Ford Forest Green such as below.



California Sage keeps cropping up too, but this was only used on the project cars although it was offered on road cars too. Described by the factory as "Olive Drab" it was applied quite matt. I do hope this is of some help.

Graham.

[Barry Boor]

It may be my computer but that photo of 63 EMU looks almost blue to me. But I know Forset Green - I used to have a can back in the U.K. before I had to leave all my cans behind when I moved out here.

[rapide]

Maybe it was the fact that the photo was taken outside on a very clear, sunny day. Blue skies etc. Below is a shot of the same paint (same tin) on one of my Zagatos. This time taken indoors.

Graham.

[SWB]

They were "painted" with varnish with a green pigment. My guess is that the metallic effect was in fact the aluminium showing through the varnish, but it's just a guess.

I find this barely credible. Considering the numbers of restored cars there are around its hard to believe that nobody ever turned up this prime nugget of information. The extact colour is one thing, but a translucent varnish is poppycock. If somebody's memory has been scrambled it may be over using the system of clear and base paint.

As for Almond Green it is hardly a problem such that it needs substituting with a Ford colour, just order an aerosol from an online supplier, even Halfords have the paint code

Steve

Edited by SWB, 11 February 2012 - 17:07.

[rapide]

Steve. Poppycock maybe, but here's the email I recieved from Neil Murray, consultant to the Aston Martin Heritage Trust.

Graham.

Dear Mr Poulton,

In the fond hope that I can nail this colour problem once and for all I pass on the following arrived at with the help of Roger Stowers:

1950, DB2 VMF 62 63 and 64 entries were finished in Cadilac Green which is a sort of Jaguar BRG with a tint of yellow
1951 similar colours but with a mat finish of the bonnet.
Further colour detail was sorted by Stephen Archer in 1986 re the colours of the grilles. They were colour coded: At Le Mans, Abecassis Blue; Macklin yellow; Parnell Red.

From 1952 onwards, the cars were finished with as little paint as need to cover, usualy one coat only, using varnishes heavily loaded with colour which produced a dull finish. This was to save weight. The modern, very shiny, just did not happen! If a filler coat, undercoat and finish coat are used, the total weighs nearly 5 lbs or more.

1952 DB3 similar colours
1953 A dark metalic green, actual colour not yet discovered but nearest is a metalic BRG.
1954 Almond Green but I understand that the painter tinted it with a blue, ultra-marine or similar.
1955 similar
The lip over the front wings were colour coded:
Salvadori Blue; Parnell red; Collins, Moss and Brooks Yellow
But there were a number of permutations.

1956 first outing for the DBR1. Almond Green untinted but with a very noticable flat finish.
1957, 58, & 59 DBR1. DBR2 and DBR4 Almond Green with a flat finish.

1962-63 The Project Cars all California Sage again with a flat finish.

I attach a photo of Salvadori in a DBR4 which shows the flat finish.

Regards,

Neil F. Murray Consultant to the AMHT Archive

[RCH]

As Graham has said earlier manufacturers used whatever colour was on the shelf at the time. I remember, going back a few years, there was an Aston display in the front of the house at the Goodwood Festival. Near enough every car was a different colour, no doubt the owner/restorer of every car believed he was right!
Going back to when I was selling resin/white metal kits I was frequently being asked which was Aston Martin green, Ferrari red etc. The only answer I could give was use the kit manufacturer's recommendation and if you didn't think that was right then study the racks of cans at Halfords.
Confusion between blue and green on photos always was a problem. A few years ago Starter produced built models of a pair of Le Mans Austin Healey 100's in a light metallic blue, howls of protest, the cars were actually light metallic green. I've seen the photo they used for the colour there was no mistaking that it showed the cars as blue. Colour photos can be unreliable things!
Whilst we are on the subject of colour does anyone have photographic evidence of the colour of the Border Reivers/Jim Clark Lister Jaguar in 1959? Not being picky just blue or green will do.

[Alan Cox]

Whilst we are on the subject of colour does anyone have photographic evidence of the colour of the Border Reivers/Jim Clark Lister Jaguar in 1959? Not being picky just blue or green will do.

I don't know whether Graham Gauld reads the Collectables forum, Rod, but you could always PM him for the definitive response.

[RCH]

I don't know whether Graham Gauld reads the Collectables forum, Rod, but you could always PM him for the definitive response.

Thanks Alan, it was Graham who alerted me in the first place that the car never changed from BRG to blue when Border Reivers acquired it. I've since had this confirmed by someone else. Trouble is I can't convince the guy who makes the models which I'm selling that this is the case. I believe them but a nice colour photo would help.

[SWB]

From 1952 onwards, the cars were finished with as little paint as need to cover, usualy one coat only, using varnishes heavily loaded with colour which produced a dull finish. This was to save weight. The modern, very shiny, just did not happen!

I think you are misunderstanding the use of the word 'varnish' and the way the word was used. For instance, cars in the 1950's used nitro-cellulose or later acrylic paints, in the USA referred to as 'lacquers'. The word varnish is the English colloquialism for cellulose. So for instance where the wooden body of a 1950's Fender Stratocaster was finished in red 'lacquer', it wasn't a wood finish at all, it was Ford Thunderbird 'Fiesta Red', straight out of the auto body shop. The term is likewise often mistaken for a wood finish in the guitar world as well.

To get a gloss finish with metallics it was generally necesary to clear coat over the top of the base coat. However some of the metallic colours could be made by incorporating the pigment into the clear coat, depending usually on the size of the silver flake and how it settled out in the finish. This would give a one coat finish rather than a clear over base high gloss finish. To achieve a dull finish, you just leave off the clear coat in the clear and base system. It isn't a good idea unless you are constantly going to be repairing and repainting the car anyway because the metallic base coat can't be polished, but as it is a racing car in that period it wouldn't have been polished anyway. So 'varnish' is just a dated term for cellulose paint in the bodyshop and shouldn't be thought of as translucent varnish as if it were a wood finish.

It can be confusing but it is the context of the word that defines what it means. Another example is that ten or so years ago Leica introduced a camera called the 'MP', and the finish was 'black lacquer'. Now what Leica meant by lacquer is 'paint' and that is how the word is used in the German language, but there were a significant number of people in the rest of the world up in arms because they took it to be a shellac varnish based decorative finish which would fall off in normal use. It took some time and user experience to overcome the prejudice.

Steve