21 replies to this topic

[Barry Lake]

Since we know how scarce the Sheldon "Black Books" quickly become, I thought someone on this forum might be interested to know that The Pitstop Bookshop in Perth Western Australia has just got hold of one copy of:

A Record of Tasman Formula Racing 1960-1969 Neil Nicoll 1999 St Leonards Press

It isn't cheap, of course, priced at $170 Australian - which is what I paid for my copy.

Anyone interested could e-mail:
Andrew Stevens
andrew@pitstop.net.au

[David McKinney]

I have to say this particular volume does not meet the high standards of the others - it's probably worth noting it's not an official Formula One Register publication. The NZ data seems to have been lifted straight from Graham Vercoe's book, which means any mistake Vercoe made is repeated here. In addition, several Australian drivers' names are spelt incorrectly, lots of the chassis numbers are wrong, and I have my suspicions that his CAMS Gold Star qualifying rounds are up the shoot in some cases. And don't be sucked into believing the race numbers attributed to entries are what they appear.

[Allen Brown]

I have to support David on this. I think Neil Nicoll has done a fine job collating the existing material but most of the other F1 Register books have been more meticulously researched and add significantly to our knowledge. This one reprints much of the material in the Register's 1994 Fact Book on Tasman Formula with updates culled from Vercoe. Nicoll has also been through the papers and journals from the period but that material has already been well digested.

The chassis numbers are out from time-to-time but this is a complex subject and he is right far more often than he is wrong.

This subject still doesn't have the book it deserves.

Allen

[TonyKaye]

I have Duncan Vercoe's New Zealand book, the F1 Register book on the Tasman Series and the two Blansden books on the Australian GP. What do I miss by not having the Nicoll book? Which years does it cover? I can live with errors as they can be corrected later, but I have a feeling that I'm still missing a lot of Australian racing by not having Nicoll.

[David McKinney]

Vercoe's book covers national and international races in NZ only. Nicoll adds the Australian rounds of the Tasman Championship 1964-69, plus CAMS Gold Star (Australian national championship) 1957-69. Why he doesn't include NZ Gold Star races for the same period I don't know.
For some reason he starts his international section of Australian and NZ libre races in 1960: 1954 would be the logical starting point. Lest it be thought that's my NZ bias showing, his starting-point does mean he misses the 1956 Australian GP and the 1958 Melbourne GP, both of which were contested by Moss and others. His definition of 'international' is a unique one, leading to some fairly minor Oz races being included just because Jack Brabham entered a car. And I always thought he was Australian...

[TonyKaye]

Thanks for the clarification, David.

As I understand it, what Nicholl adds is the 1957-69 Cams Gold Star races. Although the foreign magazines reported on some of them, their coverage was really patchy. I think I'll wait (and wait and wait and wait.....) until someone brings out a book devoted to the Gold Star races. Did they cease to be for single-seaters after 1969? Was there any particular reason for choosing that year as the cut-off date for the book?

[fines]

Although there should be better experts on this one, I believe the Gold Star championship lived on with F5000 in 1970-81, FPacific in 1982-88 and FBrabham/Holden to this day.

[Allen Brown]

Australian Gold Star was F5000 up to 1981, as fines says, but some F5000 racing continued in Autralia into the early part of 1983. Rather peversely, I have included all relevant results from these races on my site but have not yet posted the 2.5-litre results. The reason for this seemingly glaring omission is that I have yet to see a completely authoritive list of which races qualified for the Gold Star over this period (1964-1969).

Maybe this warrants to thread of its own to sort his out. David - shall I put up my draft list and see who (you!) argues with it?

Allen

[Milan Fistonic]

Allen

I have the Australian Gold Star rounds for 1966, '67, '68 and '69. I'll have to dig around for the others.

1966
Round 1 - Lakeside - Spencer Martin
Round 2 - Surfers Paradise - Spencer Martin
Round 3 - Mallala - John Harvey
Round 4 - Sandown Park - Spencer Martin
Round 5 - Symmons Plains - Greg Cussack
Round 6 - Warwick Farm - Frank Gardner

1967
Round 1 - Lakeside - Kevin Bartlett
Round 2 - Surfers Papadise - Spencer Martin
Round 3 - Sandown Park - Leo Geoghegan
Round 4 - Mallala - Spencer Martin
Round 5 - Symmons Plains - Greg Cussack
Round 6 - Warwick Farm - Frank Gardner

1968
Round 1 - Bathurst - Phil West
Round 2 - Lakeside - Kevin Bartlett
Round 3 - Surfers Paradise - Kevin Bartlett
Round 4 - Sandown Park - Glyn Scott
Round 5 - Mallala - Leo Geoghegan
Round 6 - Warwick Farm - Kevin Bartlett

1969
Round 1 - Symmons Plains - Kevin Bartlett
Round 2 - Bathurst - Jack Brabham
Round 3 - Sandown Park - John Harvey
Round 4 - Mallala - Garrie Cooper
Round 5 - Surfers Paradise - Kevin Bartlett
Round 6 - Warwick Farm - Kevin Bartlett

I've listed only the winners as I got the impression you have the full results - just not sure which events counted for the Gold Star. If you need more info just say.

[Ray Bell]

It may seem that a race is a 'minor Australian race' but sometimes appearances can be deceptive. Hume Weir, a tiny country circuit, held a truly International event in 1961, financed by Len Lukey. Strange stuff, really, but probably a bigger thing than Levin.

[Allen Brown]

Ray

There's a risk of going totally off-thread here but I was interested by the mention of Len Lukey. Is that 'Lukey' as in the Lukey Museum? I have heard of this museum but have been unable to track it down - perhaps it is merely Len Lukey's private collection?

Any clues?

Allen

[Ray Bell]

Len Lukey was the winner of the Australian Gold Star Championship in 1959, driving a Cooper Climax, also the one alongside Stan Jones in that famous photo of the 250F and Cooper side by side over the level crossing at Longford.
Look, Fistonic has sent me the picture to post:



He financed that meeting at Hume Weir, bequeathing many improvements to spectator facilities at the circuit, later bought the Phillip Island circuit and allowed the Phillip Island Auto Racing Club to run events there after the circuit was restored to usable condition (it had been destroyed by touring cars in the first three Armstrong 500s).
He ran stud cattle on the property, mostly in the spectator areas, and built a museum that stands in the spectator area.
I think this is the one of which you speak. I haven't been in it for many years.[

[TonyKaye]

I now have a copy of the Nicholl book which received so much criticism in this thread. I would be interested to have chapter and verse of some of his most serious errors so that I can make the appropriate corrections. So far the criticisms have been general and not at all specific. If he is as remiss as people suggest, it ought to be easy to point out major gaffs.

[Bernd]

I am in the process of making a 3D Rendering of Longford and possibly in future other Tasman tracks would this book help me?

Basically I'm after good detailed maps of the circuits and photos of the corners.....

[TonyKaye]

No, Bernd, it just has the usual 2D affair. I find that if you sprikle water on the page and then let it dry, it has the desired effect........Sorry, I couldn't resist it!

[David McKinney]

Welcome back to the thread, Tony
The first point that has to be made about the Tasman book is that, in contrast to the other “black books”, this is not an official F1 Register publication. Its appearance and layout is however so similar that anyone with the earlier publications would assume it to be an extension of the official series.
Yet Nicoll departs from the established procedure in listing entries not in order of race number, but in one he considers more logical. By then allocating them numbers however, he is beyond the familiar procedure of the F1 etc books.
The title itself is a strange choice, as there was no Tasman Formula, or Tasman Series, before 1964.
In his foreword he defines ‘international’ as meaning there was ‘at least one entry from a current Formula One competitor’. A completely nonsensical definition, IMHO, where that one driver, in most cases, was an Australian.
As far as truly international Australian events are concerned, he would need to have added only one other meeting (Albert Park 1956) to complete the pre-1970 total, plus two more (Orange 1955 and Albert Park 1958) which attracted ‘current F1 drivers’, albeit only one in the former instance (plus two retired F1 drivers) and two in the latter. The 1958 race does appear in his Gold Star results.
Also, if he includes the Australian Gold Star races from 1957, why not the New Zealand from the same period? There would surely also be a strong argument for extending the content to cover the New Zealand internationals (from 1954).

Nicoll seems to have lifted his NZ material straight from Graham Vercoe, and so repeats all Vercoe’s mistakes - and adds a few of his own.
Names invented by Vercoe which were never used at the time and which Nicoll has faithfully repeated include:
RA4 (for RA Vanguard)
RA5 (for RA)
Stanton II (for Stanton-Corvette)
TecMec 1 (for Tec-Mec (or TecMec)
Tojeiro TOJ-4 and Tojeiro 3/56 (for Tojeiro-Jaguar)
On the other hand, Nicoll has - logically - listed the Sabakat and the Miller Special under these names in Australian events, where the first was merely a renamed Lotus 12 and the second a ditto Cooper T41: surely both identities need to be shown. That argument does however apply to all the Black Books, as has been discussed elsewhere on TNF.

Many model types are wrong, or at least questionable
Alfa Romeo Monza: Ray Walmesley 1957/58/59 - this was actually a P3 (or Tipo B Monoposto if you want to be pedantic).
Cooper-Bristol: Ray Gibbs 58/59. Definitely a Mk2 (T23), not a T20 (Mk1)
Cooper-Jaguar: Alan Gray 1957. CS/1/55 described here wrongly as a T33 (Mk1) and later correctly as a T38 (Mk2). Actually I don’t think Gray ever raced it. But he did race a Jaguar XK140 in 1957...
Brabham BT6: Cusack 1964. This should be his BT10, at least for races later in the year
Brabham BT7: Both cars mentioned should be BT7As
Brabham BT16: Mildren/Gardner 66/67, Allen 67/68, Green 68/69/70. This was a BT23B (see below)
Brabham: The F2 cars raced by Hulme 68 were BT23s, not BT23Cs
Elfins: He is very inconsistent with model descriptions

Many chassis numbers are wrong, or at least questionable, and others are missed out
Alfa Romeo P3: Ray Walmesley 1957/58/59 - 5002, not 50002 (which was a different car)
Alta Anderson 1957 - 010 may be correct, if car was one of the four sportscars which went to Australia. More likely candidate perhaps is the ex-Winterbottom 1100, which arrived in 1938
Alta Bill Wilcox 1957: 56S (the ex-Wakefield car)
Aston Martin DB3S Ray Barfield 60/61: DB3S/9
Aston Martin DBR4: Davison 60/61. My belief has always been that Davison raced only #4 (as credited in 1962), and that #1 was acquired for spares. Having said that, I do have a sneaking recollection of his racing two cars in Oz
Brabham BT14: Harvey 66/67. FL1-1-65 seems correct, though I believe John Bridges’s car (later Eccles, Scott-Davies) had the same number
Brabham BT23: My records give the number of Hulme’s second 1968 mount, ie from Wigram, as BT23/4
Brabham BT23B: Mildren/Gardner 66/67, Allen 67/68, Green 68/69/70. BT23B/1, not F2-8-65, though it was built from BT16 no F2-8-65
Cooper T39: Lyn Archer 1959: CS/3/56 (or perhaps CS11/3/56)
Cooper T40: Max Stephens 1959 - GP2/55 (not CB/1/55)
Cooper T41: Brabham 57. Mildren 57, Griffiths 58, Roxburgh 58/59, Archer 60/61. I believe Brabham (and later owners) raced this as F2-5-57, though it was properly F2/3/56.
Cooper T43: Brabham 58, Stillwell 58, Patterson 58/59, Patterson/Whiteford 1960/61, Brindley 1962. Probably F2-4-57 rather than F2-9-57. F2-9-57 raced in NZ early 1958, with either Brabham or McLaren. Brabham’s Orange car was not the same one
Cooper T51: Patterson 1961/62/63. This may have had plate no. F2-5-57, as many of Brabham’s cars seem to have had, but was, I believe, actually F2-23-58. (It now carries F2-23A-58, which was a completely different car)
Cooper T51: Brabham Bathurst Oct 60, Stillwell 60, Lex Sternberg 62. Not F2/7/59. I think was always called F2-1-59 in Oz, but was in fact F2-27-59.
Cooper T51: F2-18-59 and F2-20-59. He’s got this more or less right, but not quite. One car (F1-20-59) was red with a yellow nose, the other (F2-18-59) maroon. Stillwell raced the red and yellow one once or twice in Oz 1959, after which it passed to Jones (and was raced by Miller at one of the late-1959 Philip Island meetings). I think Jones may have had a race in the maroon car in 1959. By NZGP January 1960 Jones was in the red and yellow car, which then passed to Miller (who had probably bought it before NZ). Stillwell raced the maroon car from NZGP on. My interpretation of all this is that Jones ordered a car through Stillwell, and when it was late arriving Stillwell let him have the car he had been racing. Logically this would make the red and yellow car the earlier (F2-18-59) and the maroon car the later (F2-20-59). It would not have been difficult to swap the chassis-plates over pre NZGP
Cooper T51: Stillwell actually had four different T51s 1959/60, so it’s surprising there’s not even more confusion!
Cooper T51: Hulme 1961 etc. This was F2-26-59, not F2-1-59
Cooper T53: McLaren 62, Veloce/McKay 62, Amon 63 etc. F2/8/60, not F2/5/60. But not the F2/8/60 raced by the works in 1960 F1, nor the one raced by Atkins 1961
Cooper T70: McLaren 64. FL1/1/64, not FL/1/63
Cooper T70: Mayer 64. FL1/2/64, not FL/2/63
Cooper T70: Hill 65, Patterson 65/66. O’Sullivan 67. FL1-1-64, not FL-2-64. It was McLaren’s 1964 Tasman car
Cooper T79: McLaren 65. FL1/1/65, not FL/1/64
HWM: Glass 57, Grieve 58/59. Mulligan 59/60, Ford 60: 6-51
Jaguar D-type: Anderson/Pitt. This is given sometimes as XKD526 (correct) and sometimes as XKD532 (wrong). 532 was Jack Murray’s car (see 1959)
MG Q: Les Murphy 1957, his son Rod Murphy 1959: QA0268
Miller Special: Miller 58/59, Kelley 60. This was a Cooper-Climax T41 in all but name; raced as F2-20-57 in Europe 1957, but was probably F2-2-56
There is also confusion with some of the T53 and Coopers and the Brabhams

Entrants
C T Atkins for Burgess 1960 (not High Efficiency Motors)
C T Atkins for McLaren 1962 (not T C Atkins)
Bruce McLaren Motor Racing for McLaren from 18/11/62
A L Shelly for Ian Green 1963
C A Amon for Amon 1963 (not Scuderia Veloce)
J H Sager for Ken Sager throughout (father)
Carlton Motors for Pierce 1964
A L Shelly for Tony Shelly 1965 (I’ve never heard of Superior Cars!)
Rothmans Driver Promotion Scheme for Abernethy 1965
Maserati 4CM: (for some reason always called a 4C in Australia). By 1960 the ex-Sulman car #1521 was owned by Norm Wilshire, and presumably entered by him when Sulman drove it at Bathurst 3/10/60
Maserati 4CL: Was still owned by Lovett when Jesse Griffith drove it in 1959 Bathurst 100; presumably Lovett was the entrant

Driver names
INTERNATIONAL:
Timmy Mayer (not Tim)
AUSTRALIAN:
Lionel Ayers or Ayres (but not both; I think the former but am not certain)
Jack Hunnam (not Hunnan)
Doug Kelley (not Kelly)
Geoff McClelland (not McLelland)
John Marston (not Marsten)
John Roxburgh (not Roxborough)
Bryan Thomson (not Thompson)
Ray Walmesley (not Walmsley)
NEW ZEALAND:
Brian Blackburn (entrant Vic Blackburn) Dunedin 1960
Laurence Brownlie (not Lawrence)
Forrest Cardon (not Forest)
Tom Clark (not Clarke)
Bob Eade (not Robert; Bob was a nickname)
Bryan Faloon (not Brian)
Allan Freeman (not Allen)
Grahame Harvey (not Graham)
Bert Hawthorne (not Hawthorn)
Bryan Innes (not Brian)
Bert Jones (not Alan Grimshaw-Jones; his actual name was Albert Grimshaw- Jones, but he always raced as Bert Jones. It’s all irrelevant anyway, as he did not enter any races at this level)
Don Macdonald (not Don McDonald or Don MacDonald)
Duncan Mackenzie (not David MacKenzie)
Pat McLoughlin (not Peter)
Barney Pellow (not Pellew)
Bob Smith (not Robert)
Tony Rutherfurd (not Rutherford)
Morrie Stanton (not Mauri)
Bill Stone (not Arthur Stone, though that is his real name)
Barry Thomas (not Gordon Thomas) for the Barden driver
Bryan Thomas (not Gordon Thomas) for the Lotus 27 driver

Circuits
Dunedin Oval closed 1962 (1965 race was on a different circuit)
Levin: the first corner after the start was always called Lake Bend (not Lake Corner). Opened 1956, not 1958
Longford: opened 1957 or 1958 (certainly not as early as 1953)
Wigram: Hairpin abolished 1954, but then reinstated

In all of the above I have concentrated on the Australian section: to extend the exercise to the NZ section would take more time than I have
But perhaps you can begin to get an idea

[Ray Bell]

You certainly have put in some effort here, David, but I am at a loss to understand how the Mildren (ex-Coombs?) F2 car became a BT23... can you please elaborate... and you left Gibson out of the driver list... not that he ever mattered.

I also recall that Cusack got the abbreviated chassis Brabham during the season... but I couldn't tell you how to check. Maybe Barry knows?

To clarify, Lionel Ayers would be happier with the 'e' before the 'r'... you're right there.

Ray Wamsley spells his name differently to all of them... and the Tipo B in his period was powered by a 4.3 Alvis and then a GMC 6 truck engine followed by a Corvette. Handled terribly with the Alvis, apparently. You can check that spelling in the Newcastle phone book... tricked me when I needed to talk to him!

Longford... 1957?... I believe the first use of that road was 1952 for a flying mile and sprint competition... this was on the Mountford Straight (now that may not be right!), or the straight that came after Newry Corner and ran in front of the Mountford property to Mountford corner, Thence Perth.

Race meetings were always held on the Tasmanian Labor Day weekend, so it was easy to trace them in newspapers... I checked right back and found Valleyfield meetings in earlier years, but even though I was told Longford's first race meeting was 1952, I had to give up and concede that 1953 was the first.
Tom Hawkes set the lap record in an Allard J2 at 3:31.5, reducing this to 3:15 in the same car in 1955, eclipsed by Paul England in the Ausca (first ever outright lap record to a Holden engine?) in 1957. Ted Gray won the Gold Star race there in 1958, then you know about the AGP of 1959, fastest lap now 2:47 to Carnal Arnold in the 250F.

Final lap record belonged to Chris in the P4, 1968, at 2:12.6, a bit of irony that the lap record finally went back to a Sports Car when the Lotus 49s were on hand to demolish it.

All this is duly recorded in my 'Closed Circuit' story in Motor Racing Australia of Jan/Feb 1998. I should try to get all these to you.

[Bernd]

Well they were destroked 2.5L DFV's in the 49T's and that Ferrari was a very powerful & slippery car it would have got along at some fantastic speeds on the long straights, the Lotus would have picked it up in the corners though.

Out of curiosity do you have the lap times of Clark & Hill from the 68 race?

[TonyKaye]

WOW!!!!!!
Now I see the problem. Thanks guys for all the detail, that was just what I wanted, though I have to admit that I didn't expect that many points. Now I'm going to have to go through my copy of the book with white-out and an 005 pen. Looks like you've put me out of action on TNF for a whole week!

[Ray Bell]

Clark, 2:43.2. Hill, 2;42.4.

Pole position Clark 2:13, Hill second on 2:13.1, Amon 2:13.7. Clark had done 2:12.8 in practice, but the grid was set on times from the heat on Saturday. Amon apparently improved on his Friday time on Saturday morning, but the time isn't in the RCN report. He had done 2:14.4, but bettered Hill's 2:13.6 on Saturday to be second on the grid for the heat.

Actually, it wasn't so much the slippery shape as the fact that they missed out on having a long race in which to battle for the title, which was between Clark and Amon. But then again, Amon could have turned the wick up in the P4 a little further if he'd been able to give it a run on the Monday... and he did have a bigger engine.

[Bernd]

Thanks for the info..

I may have to purchase the book in question as I have much interest in this series but so little data about it.

[Ray Bell]

You'd be better off with a set of RCN and Motorman... who was offering the Kiwi mag yesterday?