52 replies to this topic

[Hairpin]

Modern digital TV is not live, there is always several seconds lag and it increases with distance. At the moment there is around 15 seconds time difference between the Live Timing and my TV and that means that watching it destroys a lot of the excitement watching TV. What I would like is an offset, a delay function, for the live timing so we can synchronize it with the TV pictures.

Since FiA is reading this board regularly to find hints of "illegal" F1 clips on the net, we can complain here and force them to add that feature

[ashnathan]

just dont watch live timing. haha

[JosTheBoss]

Only about 5 seconds - if that - between live timing and TV for me.

[Hairpin]

Only about 5 seconds - if that - between live timing and TV for me.

Exactly 17 seconds for me. Maybe you have an analog receiver?

[noikeee]

I've given up looking much at live timing during qualy exactly for this reason. It spoils the action.

[Massacrator]

Exactly 17 seconds for me. Maybe you have an analog receiver?

I've got digital TV and it is like 5 sec for me

[corf]

Exactly 17 seconds for me. Maybe you have an analog receiver?

UK sky digital was about 4- 5 seconds delay, in the past i have not noticed it being as delayed as it was today.

[Dunder]

Virgin always has a longer delay. Not sure why.

[pit5bul]

oddly enoungh ONE HD melbourne was spot on on timing.. not more that a sec diffrence ! but anyway i watch f1 live timing cause u get to see the times posted by other drivers besides the one on a hot lap on tv... so get more of the full picture

[pit5bul]

Virgin always has a longer delay. Not sure why.

the race is in japan... so they need to upload the signal to satellite... download the signal in uk.. than upload again for the uk satellites to broadcast... u lose a few seconds while doing it... even if they send the signal trough fiberoptic.. its still a massive distance from japan for the signal to travel and than uploaded to the broadcasting uk satellite

[christoff]

the race is in japan... so they need to upload the signal to satellite... download the signal in uk.. than upload again for the uk satellites to broadcast... u lose a few seconds while doing it... even if they send the signal trough fiberoptic.. its still a massive distance from japan for the signal to travel and than uploaded to the broadcasting uk satellite

And how does the internet transmit data?

[windsok]

And how does the internet transmit data?

between continents, almost always via submarine cables sending data at the speed of light, not via satellite.

Edited by windsok, 10 October 2010 - 03:38.

[OssieFan]

oddly enoungh ONE HD melbourne was spot on on timing.. not more that a sec diffrence ! but anyway i watch f1 live timing cause u get to see the times posted by other drivers besides the one on a hot lap on tv... so get more of the full picture

That's pretty good, in Adelaide I get a consistent 5-6 sec gap. I still find it invaluable for keeping up with things though.

[alg7_munif]

I like the delay. I won't miss anything because when there is something happen on the live timing, I would pay more attention to the TV.

[barteks]

Actually I like the fact that Live Timing is a few seconds quicker than TV feed

[JosTheBoss]

Exactly 17 seconds for me. Maybe you have an analog receiver?

No, I was watching it on a HD Channel via a 50 inch Panasonic plasma.

[Cenotaph]

oh internet, always making tv look bad

[Dunder]

the race is in japan... so they need to upload the signal to satellite... download the signal in uk.. than upload again for the uk satellites to broadcast... u lose a few seconds while doing it... even if they send the signal trough fiberoptic.. its still a massive distance from japan for the signal to travel and than uploaded to the broadcasting uk satellite

Understood but as mentioned the delay with Virgin (Cable) is significantly longer than it is with Sky (Satelite).
I have a Virgin subscription but also have Sky boxes in two rooms.

There is always a bigger delay on the Virgin service.

[Ranom]

I usually get a few sec delay, but its all right its digital satellite and I expect that. The REAL problem with Live Timing is that it goes berserk way too often this year.

[KnucklesAgain]

Modern digital TV is not live, there is always several seconds lag and it increases with distance. At the moment there is around 15 seconds time difference between the Live Timing and my TV and that means that watching it destroys a lot of the excitement watching TV. What I would like is an offset, a delay function, for the live timing so we can synchronize it with the TV pictures.

Since FiA is reading this board regularly to find hints of "illegal" F1 clips on the net, we can complain here and force them to add that feature

I have the delay problem too, and IMHO that makes digital TV simply suck. I wouldn't even call that "live" any more. And I notice that they did not even mention that fact anywhere when I got the access. During the footie world cup I basically could not watch at home because the people on the street and in the courtyard always yelled "goal" 15 secs before anything happened for me.

Edit: and also a delay button for the live chat please ;)

Edited by KnucklesAgain, 10 October 2010 - 05:37.

[OssieFan]

well, having tried to follow Bathurst with live timing and Ch7 in Aust. I'm grateful for just a few seconds difference. The Bathurst TV coverage is 6-8 laps behind!!

[Cenotaph]

haha, i remember having that problem when i had satellite, watching the football was just not fun. i have IPTV now, but i havent checked how much is the delay. But tbh, nothing is ever live, there is always delay, some are slightly bigger than others, but there's no point in feeling cheated because of it, imo.

Edited by Cenotaph, 10 October 2010 - 05:36.

[KiwiF1]

Here in NZ I had an 8 second delay, not too bad. I would like to have access to the GPS for the drivers on track as well as LT. But more importantly it would be just great if live timing worked all the time and not stopping or not working at all.

[KnucklesAgain]

haha, i remember having that problem when i had satellite, watching the football was just not fun. i have IPTV now, but i havent checked how much is the delay. But tbh, nothing is ever live, there is always delay, some are slightly bigger than others, but there's no point in feeling cheated because of it, imo.

I also have IPTV, Telekom's "Entertain" in Germany. And yeah, there is of course always some delay, but it's different when like it was in the past it's a second or two and, more importantly, the same for everyone.

[CaptnMark]

Beware: forums are also ahead (at least the 'live' here), because many people still have analog (even analog satellite is quite a bit ahead of digital).

[100cc]

The worst thing about the live timing is that they can't get the sector times down to the hundreth or thousandth. The karting world championships have much better live timing.. as did A1GP.

[OssieFan]

Anyone having trouble getting official timing loaded? I haven't been able to get it at all this race.

[Hairpin]

No, I was watching it on a HD Channel via a 50 inch Panasonic plasma.

ok, I formed the question wrong, the TV itself has little to do with it, it depends more which type of signal you receive and how it is transported. People mention football WC and that was a good showcase for that, I was once at a restaurant that had just a small old TV with a antenna (but good food) and another bar up the street had a huge plasma screen (and digital signal probably by cable). Had I wanted to, I could have walked up to them and tell them it's goal before the signals we watched had reached them.

But my point is that the delay will vary and it is such an easy thing to build in a delay in the live timing clients. When watching MotoGP on the net, streamed (via MotoGP.com), the delay is almost a full lap and then the live timing ca not be used at all. I hope that next year we will have the possibility to get streamed F1 as well, for phones and pads also, and as races develop nowadays, you need the timing to keep up since you fall asleep quite often.

Edited by Hairpin, 10 October 2010 - 08:00.

[Wingcommander]

Digital processing takes it's time. Especially when the video contains a lot of moving objects as sport or action movies usually do. Plus the fact that the video feed is transmitted via satellite. The live timing data is only the times and driver names, so there's a huge difference. I'm just glad we have all this. No reason to complain. Altough I'm quite suprised there are still analog broadcasts in europe

[skinnyman]

The worst thing about the live timing is that they can't get the sector times down to the hundreth or thousandth. The karting world championships have much better live timing.. as did A1GP.

Premiere (now Sky) in Germany had one chanell with live timing to the thousands, probably have still have it...

[SPBHM]

I think here the difference was less than 5 seconds, but I watched on an analog broadcast,

[Jazza]

Equipment makes a huge (and sometimes inconstant) difference as well. My PC TV was about 3 seconds a head of my TV today when watching the same channel (flipping between F1 qualifying and Bathurst on the TV depending on the action). But every now and then the TV is ahead of the computer. Digital delay is a mess

[Shevek]

Modern digital TV is not live, there is always several seconds lag and it increases with distance. At the moment there is around 15 seconds time difference between the Live Timing and my TV and that means that watching it destroys a lot of the excitement watching TV. What I would like is an offset, a delay function, for the live timing so we can synchronize it with the TV pictures.

Since FiA is reading this board regularly to find hints of "illegal" F1 clips on the net, we can complain here and force them to add that feature

The problem lies mainly in your DVB decoder, that is too slow processing the signal.

[The July Plot]

And how does the internet transmit data?

By breaking the data down into protocols and then sending it in binary via routers, switches, servers and other devices, even thought it does this it can send data from one side of the world and back again in less than a second...hence why the live timing is out of sync, what would be idea would be if you could pause the live timing to sync it up with the TV that is the perfect solution.
I would pay money for a upgraded living timing with new features like that.

[arknor]

By breaking the data down into protocols and then sending it in binary via routers, switches, servers and other devices, even thought it does this it can send data from one side of the world and back again in less than a second...hence why the live timing is out of sync, what would be idea would be if you could pause the live timing to sync it up with the TV that is the perfect solution.
I would pay money for a upgraded living timing with new features like that.

about 275MS to ping japanese websites

[Massacrator]

By breaking the data down into protocols and then sending it in binary via routers, switches, servers and other devices, even thought it does this it can send data from one side of the world and back again in less than a second...hence why the live timing is out of sync, what would be idea would be if you could pause the live timing to sync it up with the TV that is the perfect solution.
I would pay money for a upgraded living timing with new features like that.

That would actually be a great idea and you could suggest it to FOM.

To just add a Delay setup (you put +5 seconds or whatever) so it just shows the delayed info. I don't think it is technically difficult for them to make.

[Massacrator]

about 275MS to ping japanese websites

150ish ms from Spain to Japaneese google's homepage, internet cable

[Hairpin]

The problem lies mainly in your DVB decoder, that is too slow processing the signal.

No, the problem is that delay is not constant, it depends on your location, your TV, your signal provider. It varies between 5-25 seconds if it is TV and 20-80 seconds if it is streamed. The TV feed is also buffered somewhere, that is why it will always be a minimum delay that is the buffer size. And the buffer size will in turn depend on the stability and quality of the feeds from initial broadcast point to a quality broadcast node. The live timing on the other hand is easy going stuff with a delay of <1.5 seconds always.

Since everything is moving towards the Internet, the providers needs to start thinking about the sync issue. That is all I am saying. Imagine if you have in car feeds on a stream (that you pay for) and you have a timing screen that is 60 seconds ahead. How interesting would that be?

[Hairpin]

150ish ms from Spain to Japaneese google's homepage, internet cable

The Japaneese Google page is not necessarily hosted in Japan. Modern dns gives you the server that is closest to you and companies like Google have servers in a lot of places and where it makes sense, they might put a server for a certain market in any country. I would guess you get similar numbers for Google Spain and Google US for instance.

[Buttoneer]

I tend to use the iPad app these days and that was 4-5 seconds ahead. Being an app, it ought to be able to facilitate a delay option.

[J. Rust]

This is a small program for those who use the "Live Timing" and looks straight TV broadcast with a delay of 1 to 60 seconds. Such delays can cause satellite, cable, IPTV network. At a delay of a TV broadcast in 5 seconds or more of reading applications "Live Timinig" using the latter becomes uncomfortable. That's what this program is designed.

The program is a single executable file "delayer.exe" in the archive.



First, you must run the original application window "Live Timing" (f1.com). It should open in a separate window. Then start the program "delayer.exe". In it window, click the right mouse button and select the "Grab Window". Now change the window focus to application "Live Timing". After 5 seconds we see a copy of the application "Live Timing" in a separate window, but with a delay. To clarify the delay press the right mouse button and select "Setup ..". Click "OK" and it set the delay. If necessary, adjust the delay time again. Then, the application window "delayer" move over the original window "Live Timing" and enjoy.

Compatibility:

Windows XP,
Windows Vista,
Windows 7

Download

Edited by J. Rust, 09 April 2011 - 15:43.

[Yolandy]

This is a small program for those who use the "Live Timing" and looks straight TV broadcast with a delay of 1 to 60 seconds. Such delays can cause satellite, cable, IPTV network. At a delay of a TV broadcast in 5 seconds or more of reading applications "Live Timinig" using the latter becomes uncomfortable. That's what this program is designed.

The program is a single executable file "delayer.exe" in the archive.



Compatibility:

Windows XP,
Windows Vista,
Windows 7

Download

So I can just download and run it instead of using the original Live Timing, can't I?

[J. Rust]

So I can just download and run it instead of using the original Live Timing, can't I?

Yes, but the original "Live Timing" window must be running, otherwise the program will not work.

[Hairpin]

This is a small program for those who use the "Live Timing" and looks straight TV broadcast with a delay of 1 to 60 seconds. Such delays can cause satellite, cable, IPTV network. At a delay of a TV broadcast in 5 seconds or more of reading applications "Live Timinig" using the latter becomes uncomfortable. That's what this program is designed.

The program is a single executable file "delayer.exe" in the archive.



First, you must run the original application window "Live Timing" (f1.com). It should open in a separate window. Then start the program "delayer.exe". In it window, click the right mouse button and select the "Grab Window". Now change the window focus to application "Live Timing". After 5 seconds we see a copy of the application "Live Timing" in a separate window, but with a delay. To clarify the delay press the right mouse button and select "Setup ..". Click "OK" and it set the delay. If necessary, adjust the delay time again. Then, the application window "delayer" move over the original window "Live Timing" and enjoy.

Compatibility:

Windows XP,
Windows Vista,
Windows 7

Download

Cool! Now, where is the mac version?;)

[J. Rust]

Cool! Now, where is the mac version?;)

Sorry, only for Windows

[olliek88]

Sorry, only for Windows ;)

Having just swapped my old windows laptop for a macbook I'm now officially pissed off!!

Oh well, at least it looks shiny and white.

[VicR]

Nice program J.Rust.

[mclarensmps]

I have my own issue with F1.com. I woke up to watch the qually on iPlayer, and before that I just had to check my email for something I was expecting overnight, only to see an email from F1.com with the qually result in the subject line. The email wasn't even about qualifying either, they were just trying to sell me some Red Bull gear. What the hell was the point of putting the result in the email subject? I don't understand. I wouldn't mind it if the email came on the monday or something, but why just a few hours after the qualifying/race ends? It doesn't make any sense at all, really.

[J. Rust]

Cool! Now, where is the mac version?;)

Having just swapped my old windows laptop for a macbook I'm now officially pissed off!!

I've found Lazarus for MacOS. Maybe I will compile the program under MacOS later. I need some time to do so.

Nice program J.Rust.

thanks

I have my own issue with F1.com.

Use mail filters or unsubscribe from mail list.

[Jay]

My Blackberry app is about 2 or 3 seconds...... Lovin' it...